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America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office

marke said:
Trump notwithstanding, the American economy cannot long survive under a 23 trillion dollar debt which is still escalating.
Click to expand...
What matters is how to control the growth in debt. After WWII, the debt was 120% of GDP -- larger than today. So, how did they pay down the debt? Answer is, they didn't. What happened was GDP growth rose faster than the annual deficits, making the GDP:debt ratio smaller and eventually irrelevant.

So, the task is to keep the deficit, as a p% of GDP, lower than GDP growth. Doing so will make the debt irrelevant over time.
 
Casca XV said:
And yet we still have the best overall economy in 50 years, Something Obama left the WH predicting would never happen.

With the trade deal with China and the other with Mexico and Canada signed watch what happens to the GDP now. Lack of those is what was holding it back.

Even so Trumps GDP is averaging twice what Obamas was, wage growth is 14.7 times faster. The Jobs under Obama were at places like Taco Bell and McDonalds, Trumps are in manufacturing.
Click to expand...
First, Obama never made such a prediction. If you disagree, find the quote. What you may be conflating is his prediction that 4% growth, that Trump promised, was a fantasy.
Second, the economy is ok on the aggregate -- with low UE and slow growth. But that's the aggregate. The people with tens of billions of dollars drag up the aggregate. Still, many of our people are struggling. It's said that 40% of Americans don't have enough savings for a $400 emergency.

What then happens when the business cycle moves downward? In good times we are supposed to be running surpluses to save for the hard times.
 
Kushinator said:
That you're not aware of the data release only highlights your incompetence:

2e1315bdbc.png


I shouldn't have to spoon feed someone who thinks they are an expert...




This is a lie.
Click to expand...

Got it, your problem is you are being spoon fed by the left and ignoring actual results. You post percentage change but never dollar growth. Your so called book smarts ignores street happenings and something called context.

You claim to be an independent but you post like a liberal. I voted for Trump in 2016 for the results we have seen the last three years and will do so again in 2020 based upon those results. You on the other hand are mired in misery and total ignorance of reality

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
 
Tbird19482 said:
so the deficit now a days is different from the deficit back when Obama was in office.
How about the debt? is that different too?
You right wingers cried and cried about the debt and deficit back when Obama was in office but aren't saying a word now.
Why has Trump and the Republicans run up the debt more in the first two years when they had complete control of the complete US Government ( Congress and the President ) then Obama did 4 out of the 8 years he was in office?
didn't they tell us if they were elected they wouldn't ever run it up as much as Obama did?
YOU still can't tell us where you got the BS that there is 2T in taxes just for discretionary spending
again you either lied or you have NO idea what you are talking about
have a nice night
Click to expand...

No, the deficit isn't the same as it was during the Obama term as he had 4 straight years of trillion dollar deficits with interest rates at or near zero making debt service more than half it is today.

You left wingers still are trying to prop up the Obama failure as if it really matters today. What matters today and always is how the American electorate feels about the economy. Obama's problem was revenue growth as his stimulus never created the full time jobs promised and regardless of how many times I post context you ignore it. You claiming the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

You have no idea what taxes you pay or their purpose. FIT was created to fund Congress and the services they provide, it wasn't created to fund entitlement program which aren't received by all Americans. You want income taxes to fund your own personal retirement supplement, that is what FICA does.

You are totally blinded by your own ideology and incapable of admitting when wrong.

You pick and choose when you want to make the President responsible for the deficit and still believe the budget is a spending appropriations

Don't have any idea why you have this loyalty to Obama but it is irrelevant today as here is what matters

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
 
Conservative said:
No, the deficit isn't the same as it was during the Obama term as he had 4 straight years of trillion dollar deficits with interest rates at or near zero making debt service more than half it is today.

You left wingers still are trying to prop up the Obama failure as if it really matters today. What matters today and always is how the American electorate feels about the economy. Obama's problem was revenue growth as his stimulus never created the full time jobs promised and regardless of how many times I post context you ignore it. You claiming the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

You have no idea what taxes you pay or their purpose. FIT was created to fund Congress and the services they provide, it wasn't created to fund entitlement program which aren't received by all Americans. You want income taxes to fund your own personal retirement supplement, that is what FICA does.

You are totally blinded by your own ideology and incapable of admitting when wrong.

You pick and choose when you want to make the President responsible for the deficit and still believe the budget is a spending appropriations

Don't have any idea why you have this loyalty to Obama but it is irrelevant today as here is what matters

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
Click to expand...

Why do YOU keep attributing YOUR thoughts and opinions to OTHERS "
 
Tbird19482 said:
and do you remember that we were in a recession when he took office and the Dems only had control of the House ( where all spending bills have to start ) for the first two years
so the spending in ALL of the last 6 years of Obama's term in office is all on them
Yes he signed the budgets and he takes all the blame like all Presidents do.
So what is your excuse for Trump and a Republican Controlled Congress running the debt up more in their first two years then Obama did in 4 out of the 8 years he was in office
remember Trump didn't take over a recession like Obama did
Have a nice night
Click to expand...

Now you are again trying to re-write history, the Recession started in December 2007 and the Democrats took Congress in the November 2006 elections and didn't relinquish the House until after the November 2010 elections. How can someone be so poorly informed and easily indoctrinated. Obama signed the 2009 budget in March 2009 so this is Groundhog Day, same old false argument over and over again.

The recession ended in June 2009 and we experienced the worst recovery in American history. He lost the House in 2010-2012 and then the Congress in 2014 before Democrats were booted out of the WH AND Congress in 2016. Enjoy your House majority because those partisan corrupt liberals in the House aren't going to be in power much longer. The American people get it, when will you?

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
 
Tbird19482 said:
You forgot to say they took away the 4050 personal exemption
the SD was 12700 before they passed the tax cut so with the personal exemptions a family of 5 could deduct something like 32950 and now it is only 24000
one of the few low to middle income groups to make out were married couples without kids. 12700 + 8100 = 20800
If they had one child it went down 12700 + 12150 = 23850 and so on and so on
have a nice nay
Click to expand...

I literally have the breakdown from my accountant in front of me. The standard deduction for a family of four in 2017 as you noted was $12,700. To go above that you would have to itemize, and for my family in a high tax state with property taxes at $10,000 our itemized deductions were only $21,000 which obviously is below the new standard deduction of $24,000. The only way one's itemized deductions would get over $24,000 would be if your property taxes are around $15,000 with an income level around $200,000. To get to the $33,000 you would also have to have to pay a substantial amount of mortgage interest and/or have given a lot to charities.

You also didn't mention the new child tax credit which is now $2,000/child.
 
Conservative said:
You post percentage change but never dollar growth.
Click to expand...

The BLS release confirms that what i've been posting has been correct, and what you've been pushing as results is false. When corrected, you double down with ignorance. Current dollar GDP was $21.43 trillion for 2019... $848 billion more than in 2018, which was a DECLINE of $212 billion. So conman, your petty logic works against you. Why? It's complete and utter partisan trash.

Your so called book smarts ignores street happenings and something called context.
Click to expand...

Street happenings? :lamo

STREET........... HAPPENINGS............

Don't pretend that your posts provide context. You cannot even do basic arithmetic.

Conservative said:
DP and Dollar change
2013 16974.9
2014 17527.7 552,8
2015 18224.8 697.1
2016 18915.0 490.2
2017 19918.9 1003.9
2018 20897.2 1006.1
2019 21734.3 1154.1
Click to expand...

Nominal GDP growth for 2018 was actually $1.0608 trillion.

And secondly... just so it's clear..... 21734.3 - 20897.2 = 837.1. Where on earth did you get 1154.1? Either you tried to push a lie or cannot do simple subtraction. Either way, you lose.

The same failure to compute basic subtraction occurs again and again.

20897.2 - 19918.9 isn't 1003.9 You're clearly confused and way out of your depth.

You claim to be an independent but you post like a liberal.
Click to expand...

Your opinion of my political lean isn't up for discussion, and has nothing to do with this thread.

I voted for Trump in 2016
Click to expand...

Who you voted for has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or topic.

for the results we have seen the last three years and will do so again in 2020 based upon those results.
Click to expand...

Nobody gives a ****.

You on the other hand are mired in misery and total ignorance of reality
Click to expand...

I just proved you're operating from a severe knowledge deficiency. I just proved you're not honest.
 
Last edited:
Kushinator said:
The BLS release confirms that what i've been posting has been correct, and what you've been pushing as results is false. When corrected, you double down with ignorance. Current dollar GDP was $21.43 trillion for 2019... $848 billion more than in 2018, which was a DECLINE of $212 billion. So conman, your petty logic works against you. Why? It's complete and utter partisan trash.



Street happenings? :lamo

STREET........... HAPPENINGS............

Don't pretend that your posts provide context. You cannot even do basic arithmetic.



Nominal GDP growth for 2018 was actually $1.0608 trillion.

And secondly... just so it's clear..... 21734.3 - 20897.2 = 837.1. Where on earth did you get 1154.1? Either you tried to push a lie or cannot do simple subtraction. Either way, you lose.

The same failure to compute basic subtraction occurs again and again.

20897.2 - 19918.9 isn't 1003.9 You're clearly confused and way out of your depth.



Your opinion of my political lean isn't up for discussion, and has nothing to do with this thread.



Who you voted for has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or topic.



Nobody gives a ****.



I just proved you're operating from a severe knowledge deficiency. I just proved you're not honest.
Click to expand...

And I continue to prove you are clueless when it comes to what motivates the American people, you are so used to bullying people, those ignorant minions who buy your rhetoric that actual results don't matter to you. Your 2019 data is for the third quarter, mine comes from the quarterly data report and shows 21.7 but regardless the dollar growth still is higher than your hero and that reality sucks, doesn't it for you?

Just went back and recalculated the data I have posted before and according to BEA.gov here is what you want to ignore

DP and Dollar change
2008 14712.8
2009 14448.9
2010 14992.1
2011 15542.6 +550.5
2012 16197.0 +654.4
2013 16784.9 +587.9
2014 17527.3 +742.4
2015 18224,8 +697.5
2016 18715.0 +491.0
2107 19519.4 + 804.4
2018 20580.2 +1060.8
2019 21734.3 +1154.1

Notice the drop from 742.4 to 697.5 to 492.0 then the surge. Trump inherited the 18.7 economy that is now 21.7 trillion in 3 years

Apps Test | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

Table 1.1.5. Gross Domestic Product
[Billions of dollars] Seasonally adjusted at annual rates
Click to expand...
 
Kushinator said:
The BLS release confirms that what i've been posting has been correct, and what you've been pushing as results is false. When corrected, you double down with ignorance. Current dollar GDP was $21.43 trillion for 2019... $848 billion more than in 2018, which was a DECLINE of $212 billion. So conman, your petty logic works against you. Why? It's complete and utter partisan trash.



Street happenings? :lamo

STREET........... HAPPENINGS............

Don't pretend that your posts provide context. You cannot even do basic arithmetic.



Nominal GDP growth for 2018 was actually $1.0608 trillion.

And secondly... just so it's clear..... 21734.3 - 20897.2 = 837.1. Where on earth did you get 1154.1? Either you tried to push a lie or cannot do simple subtraction. Either way, you lose.

The same failure to compute basic subtraction occurs again and again.

20897.2 - 19918.9 isn't 1003.9 You're clearly confused and way out of your depth.



Your opinion of my political lean isn't up for discussion, and has nothing to do with this thread.



Who you voted for has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or topic.



Nobody gives a ****.



I just proved you're operating from a severe knowledge deficiency. I just proved you're not honest.
Click to expand...

Then of course there is this as apparently 55% of the American public also think you are full of yourself

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
 
Kushinator said:
The BLS release confirms that what i've been posting has been correct, and what you've been pushing as results is false. When corrected, you double down with ignorance. Current dollar GDP was $21.43 trillion for 2019... $848 billion more than in 2018, which was a DECLINE of $212 billion. So conman, your petty logic works against you. Why? It's complete and utter partisan trash.



Street happenings? :lamo

STREET........... HAPPENINGS............

Don't pretend that your posts provide context. You cannot even do basic arithmetic.



Nominal GDP growth for 2018 was actually $1.0608 trillion.

And secondly... just so it's clear..... 21734.3 - 20897.2 = 837.1. Where on earth did you get 1154.1? Either you tried to push a lie or cannot do simple subtraction. Either way, you lose.
Click to expand...

You probably should call BEA and tell them their data is wrong

Table 1.1.5. Gross Domestic Product
[Billions of dollars] Seasonally adjusted at annual rates
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: January 30, 2020 - Next Release Date February 27, 2020

Line 2017 2018 2019
Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4
1 Gross domestic product 19190.4 19356.6 19611.7 19918.9 20163.2 20510.2 20749.8 20897.8 21098.8 21340.3 21542.5 21734.3
Click to expand...
 
Conservative said:
And I continue to prove you are clueless when it comes to what motivates the American people
Click to expand...

You can't do basic arithmetic. Don't pretend to that you're able to prove i'm clueless in any capacity.

you are so used to bullying people
Click to expand...

Pointing out that you're using the wrong data isn't bullying. However, your continued desire to push this false narrative shows a complete lack of integrity.

Your 2019 data is for the third quarter, mine comes from the quarterly data report and shows 21.7
Click to expand...

Nope!

You're just ignorant of the aggregation method used by the BLS to compute annual GDP. Make no mistake, nGDP for 2019 was $21.43 trillion. They clearly spell it out for you in the latest release.

2e1315bdbc.png


You're now on the record claiming the BLS is making false statements. You're now on the record saying your interpretation of the data exceeds the experts at the BLS.

Just went back and recalculated the data I have posted before and according to BEA.gov here is what you want to ignore
Click to expand...

Your using the wrong data, and therefore making the wrong calculations, and then are confusing them.

5d9c51bc68.png


It's why you're one of the least respected people here at DP.
 
Kushinator said:
You can't do basic arithmetic. Don't pretend to that you're able to prove i'm clueless in any capacity.



Pointing out that you're using the wrong data isn't bullying. However, your continued desire to push this false narrative shows a complete lack of integrity.



Nope!

You're just ignorant of the aggregation method used by the BLS to compute annual GDP. Make no mistake, nGDP for 2019 was $21.43 trillion. They clearly spell it out for you in the latest release.

2e1315bdbc.png


You're now on the record claiming the BLS is making false statements. You're now on the record saying your interpretation of the data exceeds the experts at the BLS.



Your using the wrong data, and therefore making the wrong calculations, and then are confusing them.

5d9c51bc68.png


It's why you're one of the least respected people here at DP.
Click to expand...

Book smart and yet so street stupid, did we collect tax dollars in 2019 in 2012 dollars? What the hell is wrong with you? You are absolutely clueless when it comes to what real people see and what they feel. Your book smart liberal education using chained dollars is absolutely stunningly naïve and ignorant

The American people get it, when will you??

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
 
Conservative said:
You probably should call BEA and tell them their data is wrong
Click to expand...

You're not using the correct data. All that's happening is you are looking for anything to help push your partisan agenda, and in doing so, failing to learn about the subject and the necessary analysis.

5d9c51bc68.png
 
The economis indicators are at all time highs. Its' like a class of water, when it gets full you can't get more water into it. At some point with all time lows on unemployment and alltime highs in the stock market you would expect growth numbers to slow a bit or to fluctuate.
Trumps work has raised the economy to historic levels, live with it. Why would you want democrats who promise to raise taxes, spend enormous sums of money in the neighborhood of $50 Trillion that we don't have unless they tax everybody, the rich don't have that much, so you will be taxed in great amounts.
 
Kushinator said:
You're not using the correct data. All that's happening is you are looking for anything to help push your partisan agenda, and in doing so, failing to learn about the subject and the necessary analysis.

5d9c51bc68.png
Click to expand...

You cannot seem to live with reality, the American people aren't living on 2012 dollars today and our GDP is in 2019 dollars not 2012. It isn't me that is using the wrong data it is you along with your liberal interpretation.
 
Conservative said:
Book smart and yet so street stupid, did we collect tax dollars in 2019 in 2012 dollars?
Click to expand...

Is there some sort of condition you are suffering from that keeps you from being able to read a perfectly legible data table? Or is there just too much going on? No matter, i'll adjust!

769d203c03.png


Now... are you going to continue to be so excessively ignorant?
 
Kushinator said:
Is there some sort of condition you are suffering from that keeps you from being able to read a perfectly legible data table? Or is there just too much going on? No matter, i'll adjust!

769d203c03.png


Now... are you going to continue to be so excessively ignorant?
Click to expand...

Looks to me like 21734.3 trillion GDP dollars, isn't that what I have been posting. Need new glasses?? Do you know the difference between annual rates and the numbers through the third qtr?

DP and Dollar change
2008 14712.8
2009 14448.9
2010 14992.1
2011 15542.6 550.5
2012 16197.0 654.4
2013 16784.9 587.9
2014 17527.3 742.4
2015 18224,8 697.5
2016 18715.0 491.0
2107 19519.4 804.4
2018 20580.2 1060.8
2019 21734.3 1154.1
Notice the drop from 742.4 to 697.5 to 492.0 then the surge. Trump inherited the 18.7 economy that is now 21.7 trillion in 3 years
 
Conservative said:
Looks to me like 21734.3 trillion GDP dollars
Click to expand...

That is using Q4 seasonally adjusted data for 2019. But when you are making your calculation, you're not using the Q4 SAD for 2018, which is $20897.8 billion. You're clearly using different data points, e.g. subtracting an annual figure from a quarterly figure.

In another post, you wrote:

Conservative said:
DP and Dollar change
2013 16974.9
2014 17527.7 552,8
2015 18224.8 697.1
2016 18915.0 490.2
2017 19918.9 1003.9
2018 20897.2 1006.1
2019 21734.3 1154.1
Click to expand...

Here, the Q4 value for 2018 is used and the Q4 value 2019 is used, but you actually subtracted the Q4 value from 2019 from the annual value of 2018. When i informed you of this error, you switched from citing the Q4 2018 value to the annual 2018 value. However, if you use : Q4 2019 nGDP - Q4 2018 nGDP : we get $21734.3 billion - $20897.2 billion = $836.5 billion. If we use : annual 2019 nGDP - annual 2018 nGDP : we get $21429.0 billion - $20580.2 billion = $848.8 billion.

The recent BEA release is clearly using annual figures:

5f4ce03462.png


2e1315bdbc.png


Need new glasses?? Do you know the difference between annual rates and the numbers through the third qtr?
Click to expand...

:lamo

I'm just teaching you a very embarrassing lesson. It's not that lack of such knowledge of the data and basic analytics is something one should feel ashamed of... but you've kicked and screamed and posted interchanged values, likely because you are confused. I don't think you're sharp enough to try to push such a clearly invalid methodology. But then again, your command of the English language is surprisingly suspect. Might you be posting from some center in St. Petersburg? Not likely. You're just really confused, and took on way more than you could chew... which was a choice driven entirely by partisanship. That's the embarrassing part.
 
Last edited:
Conservative said:
No, the deficit isn't the same as it was during the Obama term as he had 4 straight years of trillion dollar deficits with interest rates at or near zero making debt service more than half it is today.

You left wingers still are trying to prop up the Obama failure as if it really matters today. What matters today and always is how the American electorate feels about the economy. Obama's problem was revenue growth as his stimulus never created the full time jobs promised and regardless of how many times I post context you ignore it. You claiming the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

You have no idea what taxes you pay or their purpose. FIT was created to fund Congress and the services they provide, it wasn't created to fund entitlement program which aren't received by all Americans. You want income taxes to fund your own personal retirement supplement, that is what FICA does.

You are totally blinded by your own ideology and incapable of admitting when wrong.

You pick and choose when you want to make the President responsible for the deficit and still believe the budget is a spending appropriations

Don't have any idea why you have this loyalty to Obama but it is irrelevant today as here is what matters

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
Click to expand...
Yes Obama had 4 straight years with deficits over a Trillion dollars I never said he didn't
but he did not have an increase in the debt of over a Trillion dollars in 4 straight years
First year the debt went up under Obama 1.690 T
2nd year 1.179 T
3rd year 1.369 T
4th year 587.9 Billion
5th year 1.127 T

6th year 275 Billion
7th year 1..4 T
8th year 671 Billion

trump's first year 1.362 T
his second year 1.11T
lets see Trump's first year was higher then Obama's 2nd. 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th years ( 5 years )
heck Trumps first year was more then Obama's 4th and 6th years Combined and Obama's 6th and 8th years Combined
and Trump's 2nd year was more then Obama's 4th , 6th and 8th years
and again Obama did run the debt up in his 1st, 2nd 3rd 5th and 7th years
Have a nice day
 
Kushinator said:
That is using Q4 seasonally adjusted data for 2019. But when you are making your calculation, you're not using the Q4 SAD for 2018, which is $20897.8 billion. You're clearly using different data points, e.g. subtracting an annual figure from a quarterly figure.

In another post, you wrote:



Here, the Q4 value for 2018 is used and the Q4 value 2019 is used, but you actually subtracted the Q4 value from 2019 from the annual value of 2018. When i informed you of this error, you switched from citing the Q4 2018 value to the annual 2018 value. However, if you use : Q4 2019 nGDP - Q4 2018 nGDP : we get $21734.3 billion - $20897.2 billion = $836.5 billion. If we use : annual 2019 nGDP - annual 2018 nGDP : we get $21429.0 billion - 20580.2 billion = $848.8 billion.

The recent BEA release is clearly using annual figures:

2e1315bdbc.png




:lamo

I'm just teaching you a very embarrassing lesson. It's not that lack of such knowledge of the data and basic analytics is something one should feel ashamed of... but you've kicked and screamed and posted interchanged values, likely because you are confused. I don't think you're sharp enough to try to push such a clearly invalid methodology. But then again, your command of the English language is surprisingly suspect. Might you be posting from some center in St. Petersburg? Not likely. You're just really confused, and took on way more than you could chew... which was a choice driven entirely by partisanship. That's the embarrassing part.
Click to expand...

What you are doing is showing just how partisan and ignorant you are in dealing with actual numbers, the official numbers your or mine are significantly higher than anything Obama generated and that is the bottom line, the GDP numbers released are preliminary and I used the same data from 2008 to the present generating the dollar change I have posted. You don't like the data, tough, it comes from the bea.gov site I linked and was used to show Obama and Trump GDP growth by year. The facts remain, Trump inherited an economy that was slowing and the growth spurt in the economy continues. The American people see it, but you are too blinded by class envy, jealousy, and the love of gov't to see that reality

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
 
Tbird19482 said:
Yes Obama had 4 straight years with deficits over a Trillion dollars I never said he didn't
but he did not have an increase in the debt of over a Trillion dollars in 4 straight years
First year the debt went up under Obama 1.690 T
2nd year 1.179 T
3rd year 1.369 T
4th year 587.9 Billion
5th year 1.127 T

6th year 275 Billion
7th year 1..4 T
8th year 671 Billion

trump's first year 1.362 T
his second year 1.11T
lets see Trump's first year was higher then Obama's 2nd. 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th years ( 5 years )
heck Trumps first year was more then Obama's 4th and 6th years Combined and Obama's 6th and 8th years Combined
and Trump's 2nd year was more then Obama's 4th , 6th and 8th years
and again Obama did run the debt up in his 1st, 2nd 3rd 5th and 7th years
Have a nice day
Click to expand...

Not sure why this even matters except for you wanting to prop up the Obama failure. What did we get for the Obama debt vs. the Trump debt? That is the bottom line that you want to ignore. The American people get it, they got it in 2010-2012-2014-2016 and 2018 when they gained Senate seats and will again in 2020 when they boot Pelosi, Schiff, and Nadler our of control of the House

You keep ignoring the benefits being generated by the Trump economy while trumpeting the past that is irrelevant


RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
 
Tbird19482 said:
Yes Obama had 4 straight years with deficits over a Trillion dollars I never said he didn't
but he did not have an increase in the debt of over a Trillion dollars in 4 straight years
First year the debt went up under Obama 1.690 T
2nd year 1.179 T
3rd year 1.369 T
4th year 587.9 Billion
5th year 1.127 T

6th year 275 Billion
7th year 1..4 T
8th year 671 Billion

trump's first year 1.362 T
his second year 1.11T
lets see Trump's first year was higher then Obama's 2nd. 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th years ( 5 years )
heck Trumps first year was more then Obama's 4th and 6th years Combined and Obama's 6th and 8th years Combined
and Trump's 2nd year was more then Obama's 4th , 6th and 8th years
and again Obama did run the debt up in his 1st, 2nd 3rd 5th and 7th years
Have a nice day
Click to expand...

Here is what you indoctrinated liberals want to ignore, the data is from the same bea.gov information for both Obama and Trump. You want to used chained dollars and compare it against what I am posting, then I can do that but the results would be similar, Trump blowing the Obama results away, Trump inheriting a slowing economy and seeing it surge. Private sector economic growth is what this country thrives on as does the electorate

DP and Dollar change
2008 14712.8
2009 14448.9
2010 14992.1
2011 15542.6 +550.5
2012 16197.0 +654.4
2013 16784.9 +587.9
2014 17527.3 +742.4
2015 18224,8 +697.5
2016 18715.0 +491.0
2107 19519.4 +804.4
2018 20580.2 +1060.8
2019 21734.3 +1154.1
Notice the drop from 742.4 to 697.5 to 492.0 then the surge. Trump inherited the 18.7 economy that is now 21.7 trillion in 3 years


RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy
 
Conservative said:
What you are doing is showing just how partisan and ignorant you are in dealing with actual numbers, the official numbers your or mine are significantly higher than anything Obama generated and that is the bottom line
Click to expand...

The bottom line is you are confusing the data, assuming statements based on this confusion are facts, and then making arguments under the basis of a series of invalid statements. You automatically lose the debate, because what you've claimed isn't supported by logical argument structure. I'm not here taking you to task when analyzing nominal GDP because it is necessarily important. I'm using it to point out the extremely invalid/irrational/dishonest means of why you form your arguments. For real... the arguments you bring forth are pure garbage.

Again... nominal figures do not tell us much, which is why the BEA's headline isn't in regards to this data set. They value inflation adjusted values (real GDP) and their rates of growth:

8a4181b167.png


They don't even talk about nominal figures until the second page. Now with that said, nominal data does have it's purposes, mainly used in conjunction with budgetary data, which is always nominal, e.g. debt as a % of GDP. Note: real debt as a percentage of real GDP will be approximately the same as nominal debt as a % of nominal GDP, but it involves two extra calculations to arrive to the same result.

the GDP numbers released are preliminary and I used the same data from 2008 to the present generating the dollar change I have posted. You don't like the data, tough, it comes from the bea.gov site I linked and was used to show Obama and Trump GDP growth by year. The facts remain, Trump inherited an economy that was slowing and the growth spurt in the economy continues. The American people see it, but you are too blinded by class envy, jealousy, and the love of gov't to see that reality
Click to expand...

The fact remains:

Kushinator said:
That is using Q4 seasonally adjusted data for 2019. But when you are making your calculation, you're not using the Q4 SAD for 2018, which is $20897.8 billion. You're clearly using different data points, e.g. subtracting an annual figure from a quarterly figure.

the Q4 value for 2018 is used and the Q4 value 2019 is used, but you actually subtracted the Q4 value from 2019 from the annual value of 2018. When i informed you of this error, you switched from citing the Q4 2018 value to the annual 2018 value. However, if you use : Q4 2019 nGDP - Q4 2018 nGDP : we get $21734.3 billion - $20897.2 billion = $836.5 billion. If we use : annual 2019 nGDP - annual 2018 nGDP : we get $21429.0 billion - $20580.2 billion = $848.8 billion.

The recent BEA release is clearly using annual figures:

5f4ce03462.png
Click to expand...

And when it comes down to it... real economic growth, both nominal and real, is falling:

fredgraph.png
 
Kushinator said:
The bottom line is you are confusing the data, assuming statements based on this confusion are facts, and then making arguments under the basis of a series of invalid statements. You automatically lose the debate, because what you've claimed isn't supported by logical argument structure. I'm not here taking you to task when analyzing nominal GDP because it is necessarily important. I'm using it to point out the extremely invalid/irrational/dishonest means of why you form your arguments. For real... the arguments you bring forth are pure garbage.

Again... nominal figures do not tell us much, which is why the BEA's headline isn't in regards to this data set. They value inflation adjusted values (real GDP) and their rates of growth:

8a4181b167.png


They don't even talk about nominal figures until the second page. Now with that said, nominal data does have it's purposes, mainly used in conjunction with budgetary data, which is always nominal, e.g. debt as a % of GDP. Note: real debt as a percentage of real GDP will be approximately the same as nominal debt as a % of nominal GDP, but it involves two extra calculations to arrive to the same result.



The fact remains:



And when it comes down to it... real economic growth, both nominal and real, is falling:

fredgraph.png
Click to expand...

Again, you do realize what an ESTIMATE is don't you? Do you also not realize that I posted the data for bot Obama and Trump from the same source? Why doesn't that resonate with you? What is it exactly that you expect out of Trump that he isn't providing for you? This appears to be nothing but partisan rhetoric on your part totally out of context and nothing that resonates with the American people who couldn't care less about 3% GDP growth but do care about keeping more of what they earn

Have you ever once addressed the components of GDP? Have you ever once acknowledged that much of the Stimulus was gov't spending that affected GDP? Trump isn't spending to grow GDP, the consumers are doing it. Did you ever address that the unemployment and employment data was skewed by part time jobs for economic reasons and that we have 1.4 million fewer today than when Trump took office and that Obama's never got back to pre recession levels? Have you ever acknowledged that the African American unemployment rate is more than 2% lower than what Obama generated and that U-6 is at historic lows but never got back to pre recession levels under Obama?

You just don't seem to be mature enough to admit you are wrong on any subject as you continue to try and bully your way through the debates being used to fool the minions that align themselves with your ideology

DP and Dollar change
2008 14712.8
2009 14448.9
2010 14992.1
2011 15542.6 550.5
2012 16197.0 654.4
2013 16784.9 587.9
2014 17527.3 742.4
2015 18224,8 697.5
2016 18715.0 491.0
2107 19519.4 804.4
2018 20580.2 1060.8
2019 21734.3 1154.1
Notice the drop from 742.4 to 697.5 to 492.0 then the surge. Trump inherited the 18.7 economy that is now 21.7 trillion in 3 years
 
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