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Key allegations from the Ukraine whistleblower are true, despite what Trump says

Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast

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Key allegations from the Ukraine whistleblower are true, despite what Trump says

President Donald Trump is pushing back against a damning whistleblower complaint about his dealings with Ukraine by falsely claiming the complaint has been debunked.

According to a CNN analysis, however, the overwhelming majority of allegations in the complaint have been corroborated by official government documents, Trump’s public statements, and news reporting.

The nine-page complaint is now at the center of the Democratic-led impeachment inquiry. It accused Trump of abusing his powers by pressuring Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to help his reelection by investigating former vice president and Democratic 2020 candidate Joe Biden. The whistleblower also alleged a White House cover-up designed to keep information about the effort, led in part by Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, out of public view.

Trump has relied on lies and falsehoods to undermine the complaint. Trump said the whistleblower “knew almost nothing” and that the complaint was “almost completely wrong” and contained “totally inaccurate and fraudulent” information. These are among the nearly 20 times Trump claimed the whistleblower was inaccurate in the two weeks since the complaint was publicly released in September.

Here’s a breakdown of 14 of the most consequential claims in the complaint that have been proven true.
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The claims are in the link, but I didn't want to post them here due to fair use. Great summary so far!
 
Whistleblower complaint:
“I have received information from multiple U.S. Government officials that the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election. This interference includes, among other things, pressuring a foreign country to investigate one of the President’s main domestic political rivals.”
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What we know:
This core claim has been confirmed. Based on Trump’s public comments and the White House transcript of his call with Zelensky, it’s now clear that Trump used his position to pressure Ukraine to investigate Biden. If Zelensky bowed to this pressure, Ukraine would have been interfering in the 2020 election to help Trump win.
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There is no mention in the phone call of anything having to do with political rivals or the 2020 election. That means the entire notion is simply a fantasy...by both the blower and CNN.

I didn't read the rest of the article, but I suspect the rest is pretty much the same. Fantasy.

Seriously...one has to be an idiot to believe this nonsense.
 
The absurdity of each trumped up hoax against this president gets more ridiculous with each episode.
 
Erod said:
The absurdity of each trumped up hoax against this president gets more ridiculous with each episode.
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It's tough when reality crashes into your beliefs.
 
Mycroft said:
There is no mention in the phone call of anything having to do with political rivals or the 2020 election. That means the entire notion is simply a fantasy...by both the blower and CNN.

I didn't read the rest of the article, but I suspect the rest is pretty much the same. Fantasy.

Seriously...one has to be an idiot to believe this nonsense.
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Seriously, one has to be a complete tool factory not to understand that twump has admitted to serious crimes involved with this, at least twice, while on the air.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Seriously, one has to be a complete tool factory not to understand that twump has admitted to serious crimes involved with this, at least twice, while on the air.
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Hmm... with such solid evidence at hand, why not vote to impeach?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Why rush things where there's still evidence to gather to determine the proper articles?
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Because they're scared and desperate to get this over with. I love how they're so friendly in suggesting Democrats hold the vote. "if bla bla bla bla, why not impeach?"
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Is Joe Biden a political rival? Was he brought up on the call?
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That's something YOU imagine. The phone call made no mention of politics.

In any case, no...Biden isn't a "political rival" until he gets the Dem nomination.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm... with such solid evidence at hand, why not vote to impeach?
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Political calculation.

It's risky politically.

And peloai is caught on the horns or those who wonder why the hell she's letting him get away with it and decades of conservative conditioning.

To whit, polling suggests that the conspiracy theory promulgated by conservative media is being accepted. Regardless of the fact that on a timeline and including all of the surrounding evidence there's no there there.
 
What if...? said:
Political calculation.

It's risky politically.

And peloai is caught on the horns or those who wonder why the hell she's letting him get away with it and decades of conservative conditioning.

To whit, polling suggests that the conspiracy theory promulgated by conservative media is being accepted. Regardless of the fact that on a timeline and including all of the surrounding evidence there's no there there.
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The real problem with impeachment efforts is political - once an impeachment "trial" is held in and a verdict rendered by the US Senate then it is over - either at least 67 US Senate "guilty" votes are rendered or Trump remains in office and can (surely will?) boast of "total exoneration from the worst partisan witch hunt in US history". The Pelosi (et al) plan appears to be simply to never let this House controlled "official" impeachment inquiry end.
 
Key allegations from the Ukraine whistleblower are true, despite what Trump says
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Well, duh.
 
Erod said:
The absurdity of each trumped up hoax against this president gets more ridiculous with each episode.
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Very absurd considering that what they accuse Trump of doing IS what The Hillary campaign along with the Obama administration DID do in the case of the Steele dossier based upon Russian disinfo and the investigation and prosecution of Manafort from his dealings in Ukraine and their investigation at the behest of Clinton and the state department. Would seem that Clapper and Brennan involved as well in both. And information from foreign governments is never interference in our election IMO. Purposeful DIS information, sourced from the Russians, injected into the media via the services of Fusion GPS, injected into government by their aids from Senator McCain to Brennan, Clapper, Samantha Powers and Kerry in the State department, Comey at the FBI, IS in fact interference in our elections AND interference in the administration of government. That is their intent.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The real problem with impeachment efforts is political - once an impeachment "trial" is held in and a verdict rendered by the US Senate then it is over - either at least 67 US Senate "guilty" votes are rendered or Trump remains in office and can (surely will?) boast of "total exoneration from the worst partisan witch hunt in US history". The Pelosi (et al) plan appears to be simply to never let this House controlled "official" impeachment inquiry end.
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I don't think they will get to the point that Trump is impeached. If Trump had 2+ years left before the election he would be impeached. However even if they vote today the vote would happen before the impeachment hearing. I am almost certain that dems are buying time, finding more and more evidence and preparing their offense. Trumps stalling is playing into their hands. I am going to guess they want to keep releasing tidbits of his corruption. They know people have short memories. During the campaign season Trump is going to be dealing with impeachment. And the more and more that comes out next spring will be fresher in the minds of voters. Even if Republican senators sell out America again during impeachment and put party before country again it will be fresh in the minds of voters. It will even motivate additional voters. I believe more votes that stayed on the couch last cycle are getting up. The Trump driven divide in this country needs to come to an end, and the most racist, corrupt president in US history will be gone and hopefully he and his family are going to be headed toward prison.
 
Mycroft said:
That's something YOU imagine. The phone call made no mention of politics.

In any case, no...Biden isn't a "political rival" until he gets the Dem nomination.
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That is obvious nonsense. Biden was then leading the polls by 2-1 or better, and head to head polls showed Biden as the person with the best chance at defeating Trump. If Trump and his team could knock out the moderate most likely to get former Trump voters to cross over (which is what the polls seemed to show), or just damage him, that's a big win for the campaign.

FWIW, your standard for bad behavior appears to be that Trump has to say roughly this explicity: "Hey, Ukraine, I want you to illegally interfere in the 2020 campaign by conducting an investigation into Joe Biden, and the reason is I want to knock him out of the race, or maybe even better use this as a club to bash him for months if he wins the nomination. If you do not do this, you will not get the roughly $400 million that Congress appropriated but which I put a hold on a week ago. Just in case anyone listening to this call is confused, this IS a quid pro quo. Capiche?"
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The real problem with impeachment efforts is political - once an impeachment "trial" is held in and a verdict rendered by the US Senate then it is over - either at least 67 US Senate "guilty" votes are rendered or Trump remains in office and can (surely will?) boast of "total exoneration from the worst partisan witch hunt in US history". The Pelosi (et al) plan appears to be simply to never let this House controlled "official" impeachment inquiry end.
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It really depends on trump.

If he keeps charging with his head down I don't know if anybody can save him.

Its the problem of a guy who thinks he's a stable genius whose wisdom is unmatched.

In a world of people who know damn well that is not the case, against a considerably smaller group who can't even bring themselves to crticize him even when its clear he deserves it.

Gingrich's edict that no Republican ever speak ill of another Republican has become dogma at this point.

And some people really like dogma as it provides a sense of stability in a world where there is no stability.

It is my hope that the American people.finally realize the extent to which they are being subjected to constant attempts to manipulate us with weaponized "speech".

Somebody here gave me an idea on this topic. They suggested a group like Consumer Reports to parse messaging for manipulative content. This made a lightbulb go off.

These are methods. Techniques. You go to school to learn them. So I don't see why the various research and textbooks and databases couldn't be studied and an app developed.

An app that would parse anything you enter into it and deliver a report on the manipulative content.

I suspect that parents would be the first to want blood, as the amount of this being applied to kids is truly staggering.
 
JasperL said:
That is obvious nonsense. Biden was then leading the polls by 2-1 or better, and head to head polls showed Biden as the person with the best chance at defeating Trump. If Trump and his team could knock out the moderate most likely to get former Trump voters to cross over (which is what the polls seemed to show), or just damage him, that's a big win for the campaign.

FWIW, your standard for bad behavior appears to be that Trump has to say roughly this explicity: "Hey, Ukraine, I want you to illegally interfere in the 2020 campaign by conducting an investigation into Joe Biden, and the reason is I want to knock him out of the race, or maybe even better use this as a club to bash him for months if he wins the nomination. If you do not do this, you will not get the roughly $400 million that Congress appropriated but which I put a hold on a week ago. Just in case anyone listening to this call is confused, this IS a quid pro quo. Capiche?"
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And your standard is that anyone who is a candidate for something cannot be investigated for criminal action. That is nonsense.
 
Mycroft said:
And your standard is that anyone who is a candidate for something cannot be investigated for criminal action. That is nonsense.
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I suspect he had no problem at all with the CIA, NSA and FBI investigating Trump when he was a candidate running for President. His standard is that anyone who is a Democratic, Socialist or Green Party candidate for something cannot be investigated for criminal action.
 
Mycroft said:
There is no mention in the phone call of anything having to do with political rivals or the 2020 election. That means the entire notion is simply a fantasy...by both the blower and CNN.
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Oh, come on. Grow up. Get real man. Seriously. Nobody talks like that.

There doesn't need to be a precise recitation of the words, "I am now using my position as President of the United States to pressure you into investigating Biden, my political rival in the upcoming 2020 election."

Nobody talks like that.

Nobody says: "Oh, and I am doing this for my personal benefit and I'm doing this even though I may be violating my oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. Also, I'd like to point out the precise definition of High Crimes and Misdemeanors, and I am committing just such an abuse of office right now. Did you get that? Transcriber, be sure to write those words down so when I'm accused of committing an impeachable offense there will be no confusion and people like Mycroft won't get that wrong idea! Should I repeat it again for the record?"

Mycroft... knock it off. Stop defending this crook. What is wrong with you? It cannot be made any more clear? Why do you hate Democrats more than you love our Constitution? It doesn't make sense what you are doing by ignoring the evidence IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE.

Stop being ridiculous. Wake up. Grow up.

Trump is screwed 6 ways to Sunday. We have the summary of the transcript. We have his public comments what happened in which he confirmed that he pressured Ukraine over the issue of Biden. We have the texts from Volker.

The things you and all other Trump supporters are saying about this are just dumb. There's no other word to describe it. It's just dumb.

You're basically just sticking your fingers in your ears like a kid and saying nanny nanny boo boo. That's how stupid the things you Trump supporters are saying and writing appear to the rest of us back here on Earth.

And even if he did say those precise words do you know what you'd say?

SOOOOOO WHAT.

That's what you'd say. You'd say that because the truth is YOU DO NOT CARE that Trump is a crook.

The truth is you guys hate the Democrats more than you love our Constitution.
 
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