• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

California utility will shut off power to 800,000 people to prevent wildfires

Drawdown said:
So you want them to leave the power on and chance burning down 800K houses? I am not sure why you are bent because they are actually taking some precautions albeit inconvenient ones for many people.
Click to expand...

No of course not. They have to do something, now. The point is that they have been negligent, for 30 years, they have burned down an entire town and 85 people in it and instead of doing any long overdue maintenance they inconvenience 800,000 people by shutting off their electricity for an unspecified number of days.
 
jdog21 said:
Slack in the power lines can not be tightened up like you suggest. There is a reason they have slack like that. The areas do not have sufficient generation assets and longer then normal distribution areas, causing bigger swings voltage causing larger delta of heat from low load times compared to heavy use times, and that slack allows the line to tighten in low load and hang lower during times of heavy use due to thermal expansion. Tightening them up would cause them to snap the poles they hang on.
Do some research before you come up with crazy conspiracy theories.
Maybe if the state didn't hold them liable for all the damage a fire causes then maybe they would cut off power during times when the fire index gets super high.
Click to expand...

I'm not an engineer so thanks for your information. So, if it's not slack causing the sparking what is it. This doesn't happen in Oregon and those lines in CA that are sparking are coming though the hot dry desert of Central Oregon filled with highly flammable juniper trees and those lines don't spark and set fires.
 
Hundreds of people have died because of the fires PG&E has set and your response is
Aberration said:
What a tantrum. Provide your own power. [emoji2369]
Click to expand...

If a private citizen set fires that killed people they would be in jail. Why aren't the CEO's who made the policy of refusing to do maintenance that set the fires also in jail?
 
weaver2 said:
Hundreds of people have died because of the fires PG&E has set and your response is


If a private citizen set fires that killed people they would be in jail. Why aren't the CEO's who made the policy of refusing to do maintenance that set the fires also in jail?
Click to expand...

For the same reason that bank CEO's didn't do any jail time after their actions caused the economic crash of '08. We've sentenced poor men to life in prison in California for selling small amounts of drugs, yet when rich men's actions kill hundreds of people and destroy thousands of homes, the 'justice' system looks the other way.
 
jdog21 said:
Tell me does the federal government have to comply with state regulation on environmental issues even thou its federal land?
Click to expand...

Feds have to comply with NEPA. In the planning process invested public, private, local and State governments are consulted.
 
I don't blame them one bit. If we expect our power companies to trim forests and manage clearances on every single line, pole, transformer, sub-station and generating facility then don't also demand cheap rates. This is a direct result of making them liable for fires caused by winds, lightning and other acts of nature. This is also what the PUDs of each state are supposed to regulate. If PGE is guilty of a regulatory violation, fine but making them liable for every fire started by some electrical lines hitting a tree or a pole falling down is absurd.
 
Vadinho said:
I don't blame them one bit. If we expect our power companies to trim forests and manage clearances on every single line, pole, transformer, sub-station and generating facility then don't also demand cheap rates. This is a direct result of making them liable for fires caused by winds, lightning and other acts of nature. This is also what the PUDs of each state are supposed to regulate. If PGE is guilty of a regulatory violation, fine but making them liable for every fire started by some electrical lines hitting a tree or a pole falling down is absurd.
Click to expand...

California does't have cheap rates and PG&E was given funding to clear vegetation under lines and around poles. They haven't. The fires two years ago were the result of masses of vegetation under the lines in violation of state laws. They are not liable for fires starting from lightening or other acts of nature. They are liable for fires caused by sparking lines igniting the uncut vegetation. They were called twice by the homeowner on whose property the lines were sparking. They ignored the calls until the Camp fire was beyond control. On at least two occasions they were granted millions of dollars to start putting lines underground. Both times they transferred the money to bonuses for executives.
 
jdog21 said:
Tell me does the federal government have to comply with state regulation on environmental issues even thou its federal land?
Click to expand...

The federal government does indeed have to comply with State environmental laws and regulations, even on federal lands. The biggest polluters in the State of Alaska is the federal government (particularly the military), by far. We are still cleaning up a number of islands in the Aleutian Island chain from WW II ordinance and former US military bases. Through this entire process the State of Alaska has been working with the EPA and the military to clean up these sites, and they are being paid for by the US taxpayer with federal funds. Just about 80% of the budget for the State of Alaska, Department of Environmental Conservation, Division of Spill Prevention & Response, Contaminated Sites Program is paid for with federal funds.
 
jdog21 said:
It all has to do with the government. They block you when you try and chop a tree down, then hold you accountable for all the money that fire caused when the tree fell and hit the power line. Plus no other state has a dead tree problem like CA does.
Click to expand...

We also have a lot of dead trees, but the State doesn't prevent anyone from harvesting them. On the flip side of that coin, several of our fires recently have been started by the federal government. The National Park Service decided they would clear dead wood by starting "controlled" fires on federal lands, which invariably became uncontrolled quickly and spread to State lands.
 
Reason #1,653,984 as to why i'll never live in California: They can shut your power off whenever they feel like it.
 
California leads the nation in the number of homeless people living on the street and in having our power go out for days at a time.

No wonder why people from 3rd world countries feel so comfortable here. It's just like back home.
 
No problem - just run a generator to power your home during the planned outages and add to glow bull warming. ;)
 
HAL9000 said:
Tell me, did the 2018 Camp Fire, the deadliest and most destructive fire in state history, which started from PG&E line failures, start and spread in federal land or in state land?
Click to expand...

Does Trump own or regulate PG&E?
 
WillyPete said:
Oh don't worry, the scams not over. They'll have a nice bail out, just as soon as the state can approve a bond measure for them.
Click to expand...

Or have federal pork pick up the tab.
 
weaver2 said:
California does't have cheap rates and PG&E was given funding to clear vegetation under lines and around poles. They haven't. The fires two years ago were the result of masses of vegetation under the lines in violation of state laws. They are not liable for fires starting from lightening or other acts of nature. They are liable for fires caused by sparking lines igniting the uncut vegetation. They were called twice by the homeowner on whose property the lines were sparking. They ignored the calls until the Camp fire was beyond control. On at least two occasions they were granted millions of dollars to start putting lines underground. Both times they transferred the money to bonuses for executives.
Click to expand...

No utility company denudes all vegetation under or around powerlines. That is what they would have to do to reduce the risk any fire from spreading from the right of way to the surrounding area.

(spent 30 years in wildland fire. CA got hit by perfect conditions for a potential fire. Maybe CA should look at zoning laws. Why allow high density housing in fire prone areas? Why let homeowners off the hook for not maintain their property to firewise standards?
 
Trim trees regularly
Get rid of dead trees/brush every once in a while

2 ideas that will prevent wildfires and it won't inconvenience millions of people who will see their power turned off because some asswipe thinks it's a great idea.
 
trixare4kids said:
Congratulations!
You win the booby prize for being the first to make the thread about Trump.
Click to expand...

I know this wasn't directed at me, but come on, the world laughed at the orange clown over this same thing last year. Remember when the moron said they should rake the forests? You know, like Finland. :lamo

Haha, what a moron. Or idiot. Depending on which top aide is describing him.


People in Finland Mock Trump With Leaf-Raking Photos After He Said the Country 'Rakes the Forest'

Biggest laughing stock in the world.
 
Last edited:
Roadvirus said:
Trim trees regularly
Get rid of dead trees/brush every once in a while

2 ideas that will prevent wildfires and it won't inconvenience millions of people who will see their power turned off because some asswipe thinks it's a great idea.
Click to expand...

With what? You blew all your disposable income giving Trump and his buddies tax breaks.

Trump’s tax cuts helped billionaires pay less than the working class for first time | Business | The Guardian

Trump will personally save up to $15m under tax bill, analysis finds | US news | The Guardian
Jared Kushner will save up to $12m, while five other members of Trump’s inner circle will also see benefits worth millions of dollars


Haha, Trump is proving it with his base, you can fool some of the people all of the time.
 
weaver2 said:
California does't have cheap rates and PG&E was given funding to clear vegetation under lines and around poles. They haven't. The fires two years ago were the result of masses of vegetation under the lines in violation of state laws. They are not liable for fires starting from lightening or other acts of nature. They are liable for fires caused by sparking lines igniting the uncut vegetation. They were called twice by the homeowner on whose property the lines were sparking. They ignored the calls until the Camp fire was beyond control. On at least two occasions they were granted millions of dollars to start putting lines underground. Both times they transferred the money to bonuses for executives.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you are right. I have not read the reports. If negligence caused it and following the procedure would have prevented it, then there is a case. However, I live in California and have been through many fires. I also see the power lines. Is PGE supposed to trim every line, weed whack thousands of miles of underbrush and give residents who live in fire areas a failsafe guarantee in return for their electricity payment? It costs money to clear that line, complying with your claim will raise rates. Or they can cut power. Which one hurts you the most?
 
JustHanging said:
With what? You blew all your disposable income giving Trump and his buddies tax breaks.

Trump’s tax cuts helped billionaires pay less than the working class for first time | Business | The Guardian

Trump will personally save up to $15m under tax bill, analysis finds | US news | The Guardian
Jared Kushner will save up to $12m, while five other members of Trump’s inner circle will also see benefits worth millions of dollars


Haha, Trump is proving it with his base, you can fool some of the people all of the time.
Click to expand...
BS. Tax revenues have increased significantly. Trump didn't "give anything away"/
 
JustHanging said:
I know this wasn't directed at me, but come on, the world laughed at the orange clown over this same thing last year. Remember when the moron said they should rake the forests? You know, like Finland. :lamo

Haha, what a moron. Or idiot. Depending on which top aide is describing him.


People in Finland Mock Trump With Leaf-Raking Photos After He Said the Country 'Rakes the Forest'

Biggest laughing stock in the world.
Click to expand...

Google "forest raking machine" then go to "images".

Trump knew what he was talking about when he said "rake". Apparently his mockers didn't, which makes THEM stupid.
 
JustHanging said:
With what? You blew all your disposable income giving Trump and his buddies tax breaks.

Trump’s tax cuts helped billionaires pay less than the working class for first time | Business | The Guardian

Trump will personally save up to $15m under tax bill, analysis finds | US news | The Guardian
Jared Kushner will save up to $12m, while five other members of Trump’s inner circle will also see benefits worth millions of dollars


Haha, Trump is proving it with his base, you can fool some of the people all of the time.
Click to expand...

What are you going on about? Did something inside your head explode?
 
Vadinho said:
Perhaps you are right. I have not read the reports. If negligence caused it and following the procedure would have prevented it, then there is a case. However, I live in California and have been through many fires. I also see the power lines. Is PGE supposed to trim every line, weed whack thousands of miles of underbrush and give residents who live in fire areas a failsafe guarantee in return for their electricity payment? It costs money to clear that line, complying with your claim will raise rates. Or they can cut power. Which one hurts you the most?
Click to expand...

With all the money PG&E gouges from their customers, they would have plenty of money to do the job. And they could send in dozens of goats to "trim" the underbrush.
 
Roadvirus said:
With all the money PG&E gouges from their customers, they would have plenty of money to do the job. And they could send in dozens of goats to "trim" the underbrush.
Click to expand...
They'd also have to have local, state, or federal permission to do the work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom