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Gorsuch sides with liberals to tip decision to immigrant in Supreme Court deportation case

Nope, that's not what you said in your OP. In your OP, you clearly expected "cons" to "scream their heads off" over THIS decision "because MAGA!!!!!"

Then they didn't, so you changed your tune.

I didn't change my tune. I added to it. There's a difference.

1. Cons expected Gorsuch to be conservative in everything he rules on
2. Reality comes knocking now cons don't care about Gorsuch making conservative or liberal decisions.

1. If Clinton elected Cons would expect liberal judge from her
2. Reality comes knocking and liberal judge would have ruled same way as Gorsuch. Cons would be livid.

Do I really have to explain partisan hypocrisy to you?
 
I seem to recall a different reaction from the partisan cons when Roberts made his Obamacare decision compared to when Gorsuch made this one. The difference between the faux outrage is night and day.
Apple's vs oranges...

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I didn't change my tune. I added to it. There's a difference.

1. Cons expected Gorsuch to be conservative in everything he rules on
2. Reality comes knocking now cons don't care about Gorsuch being conservative.

See? This is self-contradictory. You don't understand why it is, but it is indeed. You didn't get the reaction that you thought you were going to get, so now you're trying to twist logic to clear up your cognitive dissonance on the matter.

By the way, this was judicially- and Constitutionally-conservative reasoning on Gorsuch's part -- he held Congress to a higher, literal standard, and it's a theory that gets in the way of what liberals want far more than it does for conservatives. It's also not dissimilar from his much-reviled-by-the-left opinion in the Trans Am Trucking case.


1. If Clinton elected Cons would expect liberal judge from her
2. Reality comes knocking and liberal judge would have ruled same way as Gorsuch. Cons would be livid.

Anyone believing in the same principles as Gorsuch would welcome it, whomever it came from. Again, despite what you think, not everyone is simply reactionary, like you.

And again, you expected "cons" to be livid THIS time "because MAGA!!!!!!" You were wrong.


Do I really have to explain partisan hypocrisy to you?

You don't, but you haven't provided an actual example of it.
 
By the way, this was judicially- and Constitutionally-conservative reasoning on Gorsuch's part -- he held Congress to a higher, literal standard, and it's a theory that gets in the way of what liberals want far more than it does for conservatives. It's also

When SCOTUS said Obamacare was constitutional, you didn't agree with them then. You didn't say Roberts used his judiciary intellect to weigh all options. You all actually forced him to leave the country due to death threats. I remember this loud and clear from likes of Fox News and others. It was absolutely disgraceful and you can't pretend like that didn't happen and wouldn't happen if Hillary was President. But it's fun watching the mental gymnastics you partisans jump through to fool yourselves into supporting a clearly liberal viewpoint on the matter of illegal immigration.
 
When SCOTUS said Obamacare was constitutional, you didn't agree with them then. You didn't say Roberts used his judiciary intellect to weigh all options. You all actually forced him to leave the country due to death threats. I remember this loud and clear from likes of Fox News and others. It was absolutely disgraceful and you can't pretend like that didn't happen and wouldn't happen if Hillary was President. But it's fun watching the mental gymnastics you partisans jump through to fool yourselves into supporting a clearly liberal viewpoint on the matter of illegal immigration.

Aside from the fact that it happened in June of 2012, and you weren't here then, and thus you have no idea what I said or didn't say about it . . . (Why do you make things up? Rhetorical; answer is obvious.)

The issues, law, and reasoning in those respective decisions were completely dissimilar. Believe it or not (which it looks like you don't), there's more to a Supreme Court case than who's President at the time it's decided.

But perhaps you can explain exactly why, from a legal standpoint, that if someone agrees with Gorsuch's opinion in this case, they MUST agree with Roberts's opinion in NFIB v. Sebelius*, and if they don't, then they're being "hypocritical." Explain exactly how the legal principles and reasoning at issue are the same. Cite specific issues, law, and language from both cases. That's what you're going to have to do if you expect your post to hold any water. So go for it. Make the case.








*I mean, even on the most surface level, you're arguing that someone supporting Gorsuch's opinion that a law is UNconstitutional means that they also have to support Roberts's decision that a law is constitutional, else you're somehow "partisan." Oy, vey.
 
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Aside from the fact that it happened in June of 2012, and you weren't here then, and thus you have no idea what I said or didn't say about it . . . (Why do you make things up? Rhetorical; answer is obvious.)

The issues, law, and reasoning in those respective decisions were completely dissimilar. Believe it or not (which it looks like you don't), there's more to a Supreme Court case than who's President at the time it's decided.

But perhaps you can explain exactly why, from a legal standpoint, that if someone agrees with Gorsuch's opinion in this case, they MUST agree with Roberts's opinion in NFIB v. Sebelius*, and if they don't, then they're being "hypocritical." Explain exactly how the legal principles and reasoning at issue are the same. Cite specific issues, law, and language from both cases. That's what you're going to have to do if you expect your post to hold any water. So go for it. Make the case

*I mean, even on the most surface level, you're arguing that someone supporting Gorsuch's opinion that a law is UNconstitutional means that they also have to support Roberts's decision that a law is constitutional, else you're somehow "partisan." Oy, vey.

The mandate ruling happened in 2015 and I was here then. No one was saying any of the things cons are saying today. Especially that last bit, "that someone supporting Gorsuch's opinion that a law is UNconstitutional means that they also have to support Roberts's decision that a law is constitutional." They were calling it totalitarianism point blank and didn't care about comparison of other cases. I just looked. It's hypocritical purely from a partisan standpoint and the views cons claim to support.
 
Aside from the fact that it happened in June of 2012, and you weren't here then, and thus you have no idea what I said or didn't say about it . . . (Why do you make things up? Rhetorical; answer is obvious.)

The issues, law, and reasoning in those respective decisions were completely dissimilar. Believe it or not (which it looks like you don't), there's more to a Supreme Court case than who's President at the time it's decided.

But perhaps you can explain exactly why, from a legal standpoint, that if someone agrees with Gorsuch's opinion in this case, they MUST agree with Roberts's opinion in NFIB v. Sebelius*, and if they don't, then they're being "hypocritical." Explain exactly how the legal principles and reasoning at issue are the same. Cite specific issues, law, and language from both cases. That's what you're going to have to do if you expect your post to hold any water. So go for it. Make the case.








*I mean, even on the most surface level, you're arguing that someone supporting Gorsuch's opinion that a law is UNconstitutional means that they also have to support Roberts's decision that a law is constitutional, else you're somehow "partisan." Oy, vey.

You supporting Gorsuch on this ruling is also funny because lots of cons supported the Gorsuch nomination, that he was going to save the SCOTUS from being a liberal cesspool. Yet here you are arguing that judges can separate their politics and their decisions. Wow what happened to the deep state extremist liberal SCOTUS and the need to fire all judges across the nation? I heard that routinely on Fox News after the SCOTUS obamacare ruling.
 
The mandate ruling happened in 2015 and I was here then. No one was saying any of the things cons are saying today. Especially that last bit, "that someone supporting Gorsuch's opinion that a law is UNconstitutional means that they also have to support Roberts's decision that a law is constitutional." They were calling it totalitarianism point blank and didn't care about comparison of other cases. I just looked. It's hypocritical purely from a partisan standpoint and the views cons claim to support.

No. The "mandate" ruling was NFIB, 2012. King v. Burwell, 2015, was about state Obamacare exchanges.

Never mind that I didn't even post at all here in 2015, so I said nothing about that case. So much for:

When SCOTUS said Obamacare was constitutional, you didn't agree with them then.

But even with the 2015 case, the onus is still on you: demonstrate that the legal issues, law, principle, and reasoning in this Gorsuch opinion are similar enough (to whichever case you want to pick, frankly) that supporting Gorsuch here means you MUST support the reasoning in the other case, else be hypocritical.

Go for it. Demonstrate actual hypocrisy.
 
You supporting Gorsuch on this ruling is also funny because lots of cons supported the Gorsuch nomination

I enthusiastically supported Gorsuch's nomination because I expected him to rule exactly as he did in this case. As I said earlier in the thread, I could not be happier with his being on the Supreme Court.
 
I enthusiastically supported Gorsuch's nomination because I expected him to rule exactly as he did in this case. As I said earlier in the thread, I could not be happier with his being on the Supreme Court.

Trump made an excellent choice in choosing Neil Gorsuch.
 
No. The "mandate" ruling was NFIB, 2012. King v. Burwell, 2015, was about state Obamacare exchanges.

Never mind that I didn't even post at all here in 2015, so I said nothing about that case. So much for:



But even with the 2015 case, the onus is still on you: demonstrate that the legal issues, law, principle, and reasoning in this Gorsuch opinion are similar enough (to whichever case you want to pick, frankly) that supporting Gorsuch here means you MUST support the reasoning in the other case, else be hypocritical.

Go for it. Demonstrate actual hypocrisy.

1. https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...rt-tosses-ruling-favor-obamacare-mandate.html
2. I'm not talking about the merits of each case. I think in both cases the SCOTUS ruled correctly. I'm talking about the hypocritical actions of cons and what would happen if a liberal SCOTUS ruled in the same way. An example of this is the various Obamamcare rulings and the partisan fight to kill it thereafter.
3. I am highlighted the differences between the conservative outrage of Obamacare ruling VS the lack of con outrage over this illegal immigration ruling.
 

Did you even read this? I don't think you did. You said you were referring to a case where Roberts ruled Obamacare "constitutional." That was in 2012. This is about the Supreme Court vacating a lower court's ruling that the birth control mandate was constitutional. Do you follow that?


2. I'm not talking about the merits of each case. I think in both cases the SCOTUS ruled correctly. I'm talking about the hypocritical actions of cons and what would happen if a liberal SCOTUS ruled in the same way. An example of this is the various Obamamcare rulings and the partisan fight to kill it thereafter.
3. I am highlighted the differences between the conservative outrage of Obamacare ruling VS the lack of con outrage over this illegal immigration ruling.

Yes, I know you don't care about the merits of the cases, and you think that "hypocrisy" comes from who happens to be President at the time of the Supreme Court rules. But thanks for confirming it in your own words, I guess?
 
1. Did you even read this? I don't think you did. You said you were referring to a case where Roberts ruled Obamacare "constitutional." That was in 2012. This is about the Supreme Court vacating a lower court's ruling that the birth control mandate was constitutional. Do you follow that?

2. Yes, I know you don't care about the merits of the cases, and you think that "hypocrisy" comes from who happens to be President at the time of the Supreme Court rules. But thanks for confirming it in your own words, I guess?

1. It's all part of the con narrative that obamamcare is unconstitutional.

2. Not even remotely what I said.
 
I seem to recall a different reaction from the partisan cons when Roberts made his Obamacare decision compared to when Gorsuch made this one. The difference between the faux outrage is night and day.

I don't much care about hacks views about other hacks. Nor do I have much care for hacks views in general, especially when it comes to the SCOTUS, as it's rarely ever an informed and educated view. Furthermore, if one wishes to grab a case from history to compared individuals views and reactions, I would suggest taking one that is actually based off similar logic and structure. For example, the 2015 case of Johnson v. United States. This was a case that where the majority opinion was actually decided on the same kind of judicial reasoning that Gorsuch used here. In that case, Alito dissented while Thomas and Kennedy wrote concurring opinions where they agreed with the judgement but not the reasoning of Scalia regarding vagueness of the law. An individuals reaction to that particular case, compared and contrasted to this one, would be far more relevant than it is with Roberts at the Obamacare law.

This is especially true, since there is little to no effort needed if one is even mildly knowledgeable of judicial history, the various avenues of conservative jurisprudence, and the history of stalwart conservative justices, to make an extremely strong and compelling case that Gorsuch's reasoning here is one that is grounded within historically "conservative" judicial action even if the judgement's results is a more liberal one politically. This is similar to how Scalia's stance in Texas v. Johnson being viewed as a reasonably conservative judicial view despite his judgement being in line with liberal stalwart Brennan's majority opinion.

That is decisively different than Robert's stance in National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius, specifically as it related to the individual mandate's existence as a tax. Unlike Gorsuch's opinion here, or Scalia's in Texas v. Johnson, there is little if any argument from any form of conservative jurisprudence that buttresses the path Roberts took. Textualism, originalism, and strict constructionism are the three general judicial theories that are most commonly associated with "conservative" jurisprudence; none of which are in line with (and one, texualism, diametrically opposed) the legislative intent mentality that was used by Roberts as it related to taxes.

Now does that mean there was not hacks that had issues with Roberts ruling or stance singularly because of the outcome? Of course not. Hacks are hacks, and they exist everywhere; they are the foolish types that make their judgements, their statements, their views, and their boasts continually based not on facts, evidence, reality, or principle but rather singularly on their support for or against their particular "side", however they wish to define it. Indeed, hacks can even be found on both sides as it relates to their foolish and ignorant reading of Gorsuch's action here, reacting not based on any actual worth while knowledge of judicial matters but rather simply on whether or not it benefits their desire to attack/defend Donald Trump.

However, when it comes to the actual facts, history, and information, there is a chasm of a difference between the potential break with conservative judicial methodology here with Gorsuch compared to that of Roberts in the above referenced case. But, as I already said...hacks will be hacks. They tend to not like to deal with nuance, facts, history, or actual discussions; they just like to pound their narrative, make ignorant fallacy riddled declarations, and stomp their feet in a grand show to hide their truly hollow argument and opinion.
 
1. It's all part of the con narrative that obamamcare is unconstitutional.

That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. You said Roberts ruled Obamacare constitutional, and "cons" disagreed with it, and then in support of that claim, you referenced a case where the Supreme Court vacated a lower court's ruling that the contraceptive mandate was constitutional.

It's ALMOST as though you don't have the tiniest lick of the faintest notion of what you're talking about. ALMOST.

2. Not even remotely what I said.

It is exactly what you said.
 
1. Cons expected Gorsuch to be conservative in everything he rules on

Those who act as if people of a supremely wide ranging political ideology all think the same are acting in a gravely foolish and ignorant manner, as such gross stereotypes of an extremely large group are often massively flawed. Additionally, criticizing the foolishness of others by embracing the same type of foolishness that would lead them to their failure...namely, mistaking the political realities of a judicial decision with the ideological methodology in which those decisions are made...is rather laughable in and of itself. Those who expected Gorsuch to come to a politically conservative decision every time was an utter fool; however, it was entirely reasonable given his history to expect that the overwhelming majority of times he ruled on a case it would be from a judicially conservative methodology. An expectation that he in no way moved away from with his ruling here, in which he followed in the footsteps of Antonin Scalia.

1. If Clinton elected Cons would expect liberal judge from her
2. Reality comes knocking and liberal judge would have ruled same way as Gorsuch. Cons would be livid.

Except it's entirely unlikely that a liberal judge would have ruled the same way as Gorsuch, so long as one is not taking an elementary school level understanding of how the court works in where they believe that the only thing that exists within the court, and within judicial law and precedence, is the final number tally for and against. While I'm sure there are undoubtedly hacks out there that view it in the same myopic and juvenile way as you do, to insult and degrade conservatives as a whole of being in that fashion is laughably flawed.

Do I really have to explain partisan hypocrisy to you?

Truly, no one has a need of such a thing to be explained from the likes of you, as those that could use it would gain nothing from such a source and those who wouldn't needed it would simply find too much humor in the explanation.
 
When SCOTUS said Obamacare was constitutional, you didn't agree with them then. You didn't say Roberts used his judiciary intellect to weigh all options.

Funny, you weren't here when this particular case occurred. Are you able to provide some kind of quote from Harshaw regarding what he said or didn't say? Or are you admitting that you were here in 2012 under a different alias and thus read Harshaw's view at the time? Or are you just engaging in abject stereotyping by declaring what Harshaw did or didn't say, do, or think at that time?

You all actually forced him to leave the country due to death threats.

Oh really? Harshaw was part of those engaging in death threats. Please, do enlighten us.

clearly liberal viewpoint on the matter of illegal immigration.

Your ignorance of this case, the decisions, and what was actually stated is mind numbing; I would request that you actually provide evidence in the form of a quote from his opinion to back up your assertion of him taking a clearly liberal viewpoint on the matter of illegal immigration.
 
That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. You said Roberts ruled Obamacare constitutional, and "cons" disagreed with it, and then in support of that claim, you referenced a case where the Supreme Court vacated a lower court's ruling that the contraceptive mandate was constitutional.

It's ALMOST as though you don't have the tiniest lick of the faintest notion of what you're talking about. ALMOST.



It is exactly what you said.

True I am not a constitutional lawyer. (like Obama was) but...No one was happy about the Obamacare rulings on the GOP side. That much is true. No one liked the mandate much either when the ruling came out. So spare me your picking apart my argument as if you have some type of truer sense over the constitution or what happened after these rulings. I didn't understand where all the outrage was coming from then and I don't understand why there is no outrage now. No one was arguing the merits of the case, they were just being blind partisan hacks.
 
Except it's entirely unlikely that a liberal judge would have ruled the same way as Gorsuch,

Really? Are you actually saying this with a straight face. The court wants the law to be rewritten completely. That likely means non-violent offenders like drug users are not going to be subject to deportation after the re-write. It's entirely in-line with Liberal views.
 
The mandate ruling happened in 2015

No, it didn't. That was the ruling regarding the exchanges and subsidies, not about the individual mandate. That was in 2012. When you're desperately attempting to indicate that others are hypocrites, hacks, and other such things and acting as if you have the ability to see into alternate realities and determine how people would act in any given scenario, it would help if before all of that you at least had a basic understanding of the things you keep acting like you're so informed about.
 
You might as well be sticking your fingers in your ears screeching "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!" Because that's basically what this post is.

Yeah, holding, the actual legally-operative part of the decision. If you don't know what the holding is, you don't have any idea how to read a case or what anything in it means.

Lawyer or not, I've actually read and understand the decision. You can't say either. Going by what you say here, your familiarity with the case and the actual decision is a micron above nil.

And that's a fact. A fact you can change if you so desire, but you have to so desire.

Citizens United is about a film made about Hillary Clinton and whether or not the First Amendment protects Citizens United's right to air it, despite McCain-Feingold's restriction on electioneering communications. The Court found that it did. That's the decision.

Well, thank you very much for that information.
 
Really? Are you actually saying this with a straight face. The court wants the law to be rewritten completely. That likely means non-violent offenders like drug users are not going to be subject to deportation after the re-write. It's entirely in-line with Liberal views.

Can you show me the link that proves the above.
No where did I read that the SC said they want the law to be made more lenient. They want the law to be made clearer though...And that does not favor liberals. It favors due process for illegal aliens.
 
True I am not a constitutional lawyer. (like Obama was) but...No one was happy about the Obamacare rulings on the GOP side. That much is true. No one liked the mandate much either when the ruling came out. So spare me your picking apart my argument as if you have some type of truer sense over the constitution or what happened after these rulings. I didn't understand where all the outrage was coming from then and I don't understand why there is no outrage now. No one was arguing the merits of the case, they were just being blind partisan hacks.

You don't understand because you don't know anything about either case, and you approach everything as a reactionary, expecting that that everyone else does the same, entirely unable to fathom anything else.

You don't even care about the merits of either case, or the reasoning behind them. To you, it's all tribal, and you cannot think beyond that. You've demonstrated that over and over in this thread (and elsewhere), and you do so again in THIS post.

And yes, my understanding of the Constitution, constitutional issues, the law, the reasoning behind these cases (indeed, what actually happened in them), and the reactions to them, are leaps and bounds above yours.
 
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