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McConnell to delay the vote on health care bill until after July 4 recess

Bucky said:
With healthcare debates, this is what inevitable happens:

Liberals often times bring up anecdotal evidence or stories. It is really difficult to understand health insurance because it is not a tangible product.

"My husband couldn't get health insurance because of a pre-existing condition"
"My wife developed cancer"
......

Once this is mentioned it is impossible to argue about the cost implications of health care - in asking who will pay for it, raising the national debt etc.. Rationality and logic go out of the window.

I mean, these are the types of responses I have received in this thread:

"paying higher taxes is a good thing."
"I don't care if someone that is extremely wealthy loses half their net worth."
"Screw the national debt or paying for national security, education, etc..."
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Yeah, it's amazing how inconvenient it can be when someone reminds you in a discussion about health care that people get sick. If only they would keep that **** to themselves.
 
Cardinal said:
Yeah, it's amazing how inconvenient it can be when someone reminds you in a discussion about health care that people get sick. If only they would keep that **** to themselves.
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Try reminding them they have the ****tiest, most expensive, most inefficient healthcare system on the planet amongst advanced post-industrial nations. Oh the denial; "exceptional".
 
Fenton Lum said:
Try reminding them they have the ****tiest, most expensive, most inefficient healthcare system on the planet amongst advanced post-industrial nations. Oh the denial; "exceptional".
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In America, if you want to go to the hospital you can, rather easilly. They often times accommodate your schedule rather easily. Today is Wednesday, if you want to get to the hospital this week, chances are good you can.

In Canada and other countries, if you want to go to the hospital, you may have to wait weeks or months just to get scheduled in.

So, is waiting 3-5 months for a checkup, efficient?
 
Bucky said:
With healthcare debates, this is what inevitable happens:

Liberals often times bring up anecdotal evidence or stories.
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I haven't brought up a single ancedote. I brought up what should be a basic standard in any civilized country; that we shouldn't let people die just because they don't have enough money.


Once this is mentioned it is impossible to argue about the cost implications of health care - in asking who will pay for it, raising the national debt etc.. Rationality and logic go out of the window.
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No discussion with you includes rationality or logic.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I haven't brought up a single ancedote. I brought up what should be a basic standard in any civilized country; that we shouldn't let people die just because they don't have enough money.

No discussion with you includes rationality or logic.
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If Obamacare is so great, why aren't more younger healthier people buying insurance?
 
Zyphlin said:
1. Suggesting he'd be getting "more" than the $200,000 he's already making is dishonest. Last I checked, if you are paying less in taxes, you're not suddenly getting PAID by the government...they're simply taking less of the money you've EARNED away from you. Him getting a tax cut isn't going to mean he's going to get "more than the $200,000 [he's] already making", it'd mean he'd simply be KEEPING more of the "200,000 [he's] already making".

2. The question of "need" is a flawed one from the very onset, and highlights with great clarity you're ideology. The belief that the government and society should be able to deem what people "need" and take from them anything more than that in the name of providing whatever else they feel like deeming is "needed"....be it Medicaid, funds to fight global warming, financing an art project in New York, or whatever else they feel is "needed".

Tell me Cardinal, do you "need" every dollar you make? If not, then how about you justify why you NEED to not have your taxes raised significantly to allow other people access to Medicaid? Tell me, do you own a smart phone? Is it new within the past year or two, or older? Is it a top of the line model like a Galaxy S or iPhone, or do you have a lower end android phone? How about your television Cardinal; CRT, LCD, or LED? Is it 32"? 40+? 50"? Are those all things you "need"? If not, how about YOU justify why YOU need **** you have and money YOU make instead of providing everything less than what you "need" in some fashion, be it through the government or through charity, to people for their healthcare.
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Why are you equating healthcare, which has an impact on the entire nation, with "need" which is clearly subjective?
 
Cardinal said:
Yeah, it's amazing how inconvenient it can be when someone reminds you in a discussion about health care that people get sick. If only they would keep that **** to themselves.
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You make smart decisions through reason and logic. All I am hearing from people from your side is emotion, and people make very bad decisions when emotions are high.
 
Bucky said:
In America, if you want to go to the hospital you can, rather easilly. They often times accommodate your schedule rather easily. Today is Wednesday, if you want to get to the hospital this week, chances are good you can.

In Canada and other countries, if you want to go to the hospital, you may have to wait weeks or months just to get scheduled in.

So, is waiting 3-5 months for a checkup, efficient?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I have already posted 4 posts, limited only by the characters per post limitations of this forum, on studies and comparisons of the various healthcare systems of the planet's advanced post-industrial nations. Examinations done by organizations inclusing the WHO, JAMA, and AMA among others. Fell free to peruse them, your anecdotal claims are irrelevant.

As for Canada, they are able to negotiate US pharma drug pricing downward via their single payer system and US pharma hikes rates americans pay to offset the difference.

You enjoy a system legislated by big pharma and the insirance industry. It was that way before, during, and will be post the HeritageFoundationCare plan Obama implemented. We americans already pay for everyone else's healthcare anyway, just not in a way that serves the people.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I haven't brought up a single ancedote. I brought up what should be a basic standard in any civilized country; that we shouldn't let people die just because they don't have enough money.
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Can you provide an example of a civilized country that doesn't "let people die" because they don't have enough money?
 
Bucky said:
If Obamacare is so great, why aren't more younger healthier people buying insurance?
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It's not great, never was, it was the usual gift to pharma and the insurance industry who were at the table, and really now, the concept was all Heritage Foundation.
 
Taylor said:
Can you provide an example of a civilized country that doesn't "let people die" because they don't have enough money?
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I'm fine with that admission that we are not exceptional after all. Just average.
 
Bucky said:
With healthcare debates, this is what inevitable happens:

Liberals often times bring up anecdotal evidence or stories. It is really difficult to understand health insurance because it is not a tangible product.
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How do you come up with such retarded crap? Here is a clue, take a look at the value/stock price of the larges health insurers.
 
Taylor said:
Can you provide an example of a civilized country that doesn't "let people die" because they don't have enough money?
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I presume you mean what countries give their citizens access to healthcare that isn't paid out of pocket?
 
Fenton Lum said:
I'm sorry, I have already posted 4 posts, limited only by the characters per post limitations of this forum, on studies and comparisons of the various healthcare systems of the planet's advanced post-industrial nations. Examinations done by organizations inclusing the WHO, JAMA, and AMA among others. Fell free to peruse them, your anecdotal claims are irrelevant.

As for Canada, they are able to negotiate US pharma drug pricing downward via their single payer system and US pharma hikes rates americans pay to offset the difference.

You enjoy a system legislated by big pharma and the insirance industry. It was that way before, during, and will be post the HeritageFoundationCare plan Obama implemented. We americans already pay for everyone else's healthcare anyway, just not in a way that serves the people.
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Thanks for answering the question. You don't mind waiting 3-5 months for a checkup.
 
Bucky said:
You make smart decisions through reason and logic. All I am hearing from people from your side is emotion, and people make very bad decisions when emotions are high.
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Fun fact: You're a wet bag made of meat and you age. You are not an invulnerable android. Ergo, you will get sick. People you know and love may also be human, and therefore will also get sick and (some day) die. These are facts that are partly necessary to understanding the greater conversation about health care. When you remove the fact that people get sick (because they're human) from the discussion, then a discussion on health care becomes fairly meaningless.
 
Bucky said:
Thanks for answering the question. You don't mind waiting 3-5 months for a checkup.
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Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......................
 
Bucky said:
If Obamacare is so great, why aren't more younger healthier people buying insurance?
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Point out anywhere in this thread where I said Obamacare is so great.
 
Cardinal said:
Fun fact: You're a wet bag made of meat and you age. You are not an invulnerable android. Ergo, you will get sick. People you know and love may also be human, and therefore will also get sick and (some day) die. These are facts that are partly necessary to understanding the greater conversation about health care. When you remove the fact that people get sick (because they're human) from the discussion, then a discussion on health care becomes fairly meaningless.
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Or it merely becomes about nothing but wealth extraction.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I presume you mean what countries give their citizens access to healthcare that isn't paid out of pocket?
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They still pay for it, whether it's out of pocket or not. None pay enough individually or collectively to support a healthcare system that doesn't "let people die."
 
Taylor said:
They still pay for it, whether it's out of pocket or not. None pay enough individually or collectively to support a healthcare system that doesn't "let people die."
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If you're going to seize upon semantics instead of presenting an actual argument go ahead. I've already stated that I have no problem paying taxes so that people don't die of treatable or preventable diseases just because they don't have enough money either for insurance or to pay for the medical costs.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
If you're going to seize upon semantics instead of presenting an actual argument go ahead. I've already stated that I have no problem paying taxes so that people don't die of treatable or preventable diseases just because they don't have enough money either for insurance or to pay for the medical costs.
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Some people don't have enough money to be paying these ridicolous taxes FYI.
 
Bucky said:
Some people don't have enough money to be paying these ridicolous taxes FYI.
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Some don't, and they shouldn't be taxed more. Some do, however, and they should be taxed more.
 
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