Roy Moore Might Win. Blame the Media

cpwill said:

I think, if you will examine your thoughts, you will discover that you aren't asking "what does the weight of evidence say", but rather "is there a way I can justify not believing multiple accusations from unconnected sources against a candidate whom I want to be a good person."

I was a Roy Moore voter and defender. But I wasn't willing to sell my integrity to defend Trump, and I won't do it to defend him.

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I think the documents on file at the courthouse show a conflict with Leigh Corfman's story she gave the Washington Post in her own words.
The records state her father's residence was in O'Hatchee. He had remarried. The court records state on February 22,1979 the father was awarded physical custody and both parents were in agreement with this decision. This could be easily verified by school records as Corfman would have had to change school districts from Gadsden to O'Hatchee. Because of the change in physical custody which would resulted in a change of residence for Corfman, it makes her story improbable as she told it.

The two most damning allegations come from Corfman and Beverly Nelson.

Beverly Nelson as you know has a yearbook the Moore campaign has requested on numerous occasions to be analyzed by third party experts. Gloria Alred has refused. Former waitresses at the Ole Hickory have come out and disagree with Nelson over details of her story in her own words ranging from the location of the dumpsters, to the lighting of the parking lot, the time the restaurant closed, the waitresses not permitted to work the counter, the age a waitress had to be to work there and they don't remember Moore being a regular. Are they liars? Is the retired sheriff who stated he knew Roy Moore from the courthouse and he ate dinner at Ole Hickory almost every night before his shift started and never saw Moore in the place. Is he a liar too? You see in Nelson's testimony Moore was a regular.

The person that was in charge of mall security at the Gadsden Mall who worked there for over 20 years came forward and stated Roy Moore was never banned from the mall after WaPo once again published a piece stating he was banned for trying to pick up young girls. Is the former security officer a liar too?

Beverly Nelson's own stepson posted a video on Youtube claiming his stepmother is lying. Is the stepson a liar too? Are they all a bunch of damn liars?

Evidently a good number of Alabamians don't think so. There is a possibility that Moore will win. There will be a call for an ethics investigation and these allegations will be investigated but in doing so the accusers will be challenged in their stories as will Moore.

I have never supported Moore in this election. I find some of his views on the Constitution to be inaccurate and it is those views that have made him so controversial. But I also don't believe just because two women make allegations against a man that are criminal and 40 years old and made just weeks before a highly charged Senate race should be taken as the gospel either and that both the accused and the accuser be challenged in an ethics hearing.

cpwill said:

I remember having to explain this to the Clinton defenders. Criminality is not the standard for morality or even basic decency. It's just an offense so bad we are willing to use state violence against you, should you engage in it.

You have independent, multisource verification with dozens of confirming witnesses, and Moore has changed his story multiple times in self-contradicting ways. :shrug: the evidence points pretty clearly to there being fire behind this smoke.

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Yes, that he dated girls as young as 16.

However there is no substantiation for the illegal claims, as we have no actual evidence besides personal testimony.

Beverly Young Nelson has finally admitted that she forged a portion of the infamous high school yearbook that
she and attorney Gloria Allred used as proof of her accusations against U.S. Senate candidate Roy Moore.
Worse still, the ABC reporter actually coaches Nelson, puts words in her mouth, downplay the enormous
significance of her deceit. I'm astonished that she admitted this now. I was expecting it the day after the election.
Anyone accepting the accusations of Beverly Nelson is showing an unconscionable bias

'Alabaman's are unlikely to forget Melissa Myers Bush false claims against Lt. Gov. Steve Windom
Alabama's first GOP lieutenant governor this century. On a videotape and in a lawsuit, Bush accused Windom
of sexually assaulting her in 1991. But on the witness stand Thursday, she said she was paid to make the allegation.
She couldn't recall how much, but, according to others' testimony, she got at least $5,000.'

"The rumor-mill process of developing false stories has been a part of Alabama politics for at least the last
60 years," said political scientist Anne Permaloff of Auburn University at Montgomery.
Among past dirty tricks were rumors spread in 1970 by supporters of Gov. George C. Wallace portraying
a foe's wife as alcoholic and his daughter as dating blacks.'

Why some even believe for one second these accusers is beyond me, most stories were debunked within a week.
'The newest one now is "I dated Roy Moore and had a great time.....but now (after receiving all this money from the DNC)
I realize it was sexual assault”. On December 13th, these accusers will fade away.

This race isn't even close as of todays Moore's chances continue to improve with the Las Vegas oddsmakers:
US Senate - Alabama Special Election Winner
Thu 12/12 951 Roy Moore wins Alabama special election -460
9:00AM 952 Field wins Alabama special election +320

Oborosen said:

Yes, that he dated girls as young as 16.

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Which, in addition to having had half-admitted to, he now flatly denies.... making him a liar about his pursuit of young girls in his thirties.

However there is no substantiation for the illegal claims, as we have no actual evidence besides personal testimony.

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And the fact that she told multiple people about it at the time.

So if this is some kind of piling-on conspiracy, then why did A) this girl not come forward during the Supreme Court bru-ha-ha with him, and B) how did she manage to travel backwards through time to tell others?

slick said:

Beverly Young Nelson has finally admitted that she forged a portion of the infamous high school yearbook that
she and attorney Gloria Allred used as proof of her accusations against U.S. Senate candidate Roy Moore.
Worse still, the ABC reporter actually coaches Nelson, puts words in her mouth, downplay the enormous
significance of her deceit. I'm astonished that she admitted this now. I was expecting it the day after the election.
Anyone accepting the accusations of Beverly Nelson is showing an unconscionable bias

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Not really. She says she added the section underneath his signature, which certainly seems to be his.

This harms her, certainly. But it leaves him still dammed.

On December 13th, these accusers will fade away.

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Hopefully not. Should he win, the Senate should investigate and, if they can determine the accusations are credible, they should kick him out. Republican Governor of Alabama can appoint someone else, and we'll be through with this ugly, disenheartening chapter in the history of a once-decent party.

vesper said:

I think the documents on file at the courthouse show a conflict with Leigh Corfman's story she gave the Washington Post in her own words.

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:shrug: as far as I am aware, they are not. They confirm that she was there when she claimed she was, and that Moore was there at the same time she said she ran into him.

The records state her father's residence was in O'Hatchee. He had remarried. The court records state on February 22,1979 the father was awarded physical custody and both parents were in agreement with this decision. This could be easily verified by school records as Corfman would have had to change school districts from Gadsden to O'Hatchee. Because of the change in physical custody which would resulted in a change of residence for Corfman, it makes her story improbable as she told it.

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It does not, firstly, because court records (see above) confirm her story about meeting him that day, and claims that she moved the day of the proceeding don't hold water.

The two most damning allegations come from Corfman and Beverly Nelson.

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Allegations that a 30+ year old man was pursuing 14,15,16, and 17 year old girls is damming regardless.

Beverly Nelson as you know has a yearbook the Moore campaign has requested on numerous occasions to be analyzed by third party experts. Gloria Alred has refused.

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Actually she cites such a party - a handwriting expert named Arthur Anthony. Now, she could release it so that anyone could look at it, sure.

You know who else is refusing to prove their case, though? Roy Moore. He claimed he was going to sue, and in such a case would have been able to claim a need for expedited discovery, meaning that he could have forced Allred to make the book available for court-ordered third party verification....

....yet he hasn't.


Because it's probably his signature. It sure seems to match his other signatures. And if you want to shout "forgery".... well, why hasn't he demanded that be proven, then?

Because at the very least he's not sure. Because this behavior was, in fact, in keeping with his activities.

Which, ironically, he suggests at and then backs away from.

The person that was in charge of mall security at the Gadsden Mall who worked there for over 20 years came forward and stated Roy Moore was never banned from the mall after WaPo once again published a piece stating he was banned for trying to pick up young girls. Is the former security officer a liar too?

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Are the cops, who say they remember, liars? Or do you think it's quite possible some people remember a data point while others forget?

That's why independent, multi-source verification is important. Which, in this case, we have in spades. We targeted Osama bin Laden with less evidence than this.

Evidently a good number of Alabamians don't think so. There is a possibility that Moore will win.

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Winning an election is not proof that one is not a malefactor, particularly when one's opponent is also odious to the electorate, as any abortion-extremist like Doug Jones is going to be to the people of Alabama. See: Ted Kennedy, et. al.

I have never supported Moore in this election. I find some of his views on the Constitution to be inaccurate and it is those views that have made him so controversial. But I also don't believe just because two women make allegations

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I believe it's up to 6 or 7, now, with more than 30 witnesses from years past confirming their stories aren't new.

cpwill said:

Not really. She says she added the section underneath his signature, which certainly seems to be his.

This harms her, certainly. But it leaves him still dammed.



Hopefully not. Should he win, the Senate should investigate and, if they can determine the accusations are credible, they should kick him out. Republican Governor of Alabama can appoint someone else, and we'll be through with this ugly, disenheartening chapter in the history of a once-decent party.

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I don't understand why CNN or MSNBC hasn't decided to pay you for your spot on analysis. You deserve a bigger audience than political forum regulars.

slick said:

I don't understand why CNN or MSNBC hasn't decided to pay you for your spot on analysis. You deserve a bigger audience than political forum regulars.

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Meh. I prefer my current life. Maybe when I retire, and have nothing better to do.

Oborosen said:

This one hell of a ride though, I felt the girls could have a chance at proven something against Moore. Until Gloria Allred joined them that is, then I knew that it was going to go downhill from there.

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You said it. It did seem bleak for a while even the 5 or 6 senators who had the gumption to endorse him before the accusations
promptly unendorsed him & the RNC stopped funding his campaign. McConnell statements were blistering and had an effect
but Roy Moore stood his ground! For the last week Roy Moore chances were getting stronger & stronger Trump's endorsement
was big & Gloria Alred with this Nelson women who today admitted to forge the yearbook probably put the final nail in the coffin
of Democratic hopes in Alabama, despite having outspent Moore's campaign 7 to1.

Odds soaring today toward the election of Roy Moore.

US Senate - Alabama Special Election Winner
Thu 12/12 951 Roy Moore wins Alabama special election -650
9:00AM 952 Field wins Alabama special election +420

cpwill said:

Which, in addition to having had half-admitted to, he now flatly denies.... making him a liar about his pursuit of young girls in his thirties.



And the fact that she told multiple people about it at the time.




So if this is some kind of piling-on conspiracy, then why did A) this girl not come forward during the Supreme Court bru-ha-ha with him, and B) how did she manage to travel backwards through time to tell others?

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#1 Good question, we should ask her that. Not to mention all of the other women who have come forward. Or why they haven't come forward during any of his other formative years.
#2 She doesn't really need to travel back in time, if she can still managed to somehow spread the word today. Social media is as much a problem for this as anything else I guess.

I have read of him admitting to dating girls as young as 16, though it was not a common thing for him at the time. If you have a link where he denies ever dating girls that young, please share it if at all possible.

slick said:

You said it. It did seem bleak for a while even the 5 or 6 senators who had the gumption to endorse him before the accusations
promptly unendorsed him & the RNC stopped funding his campaign. McConnell statements were blistering and had an effect
but Roy Moore stood his ground! For the last week Roy Moore chances were getting stronger & stronger Trump's endorsement
was big & Gloria Alred with this Nelson women who today admitted to forge the yearbook probably put the final nail in the coffin
of Democratic hopes in Alabama, despite having outspent Moore's campaign 7 to1.

Odds soaring today toward the election of Roy Moore.

US Senate - Alabama Special Election Winner
Thu 12/12 951 Roy Moore wins Alabama special election -650
9:00AM 952 Field wins Alabama special election +420

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Strange had Trumps original support, though I think that's what lost it for him in the long run and everyone else voted Moore, thinking he wouldn't have a chance to win at all.

Strange world we live in.

Jones needed to turn out blacks, and it should not have been that hard, but it sure looks like he screwed it up.

And what are D's doing pumping so much money into this race....Alabamans like neither outsiders nor being told what to do.








Now watch Jones win:lol:...IDK what is going to happen but I do know that the D's did some really bad work here.

Oborosen said:

#1 Good question, we should ask her that. Not to mention all of the other women who have come forward. Or why they haven't come forward during any of his other formative years.

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Already answered - though they told some others what had happened, the women didn't want to go public. WaPo had to convince them to do so, and a big part of that was letting them come forward as part of a group.

#2 She doesn't really need to travel back in time, if she can still managed to somehow spread the word today.

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That is incorrect; the women involved told others years and decades ago, and their story has remained consistent. Any Conspiracy Theory has to explain how, if this is all made up, they managed to go back in time and convince their younger selves to tell their tales to others.

I have read of him admitting to dating girls as young as 16, though it was not a common thing for him at the time. If you have a link where he denies ever dating girls that young, please share it if at all possible.

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Interesting. So if it can be shown to you that Moore has changed his story you will... What, exactly.

Hawkeye10 said:

Jones needed to turn out blacks, and it should not have been that hard, but it sure looks like he screwed it up.

And what are D's doing pumping so much money into this race....Alabamans like neither outsiders nor being told what to do.








Now watch Jones win[emoji38]...IDK what is going to happen but I do know that the D's did some really bad work here.

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It's ironic. If Doug Jones had been able to break with the DNC on just the issue of abortion, he'd be running away with this thing.

cpwill said:

Already answered - though they told some others what had happened, the women didn't want to go public. WaPo had to convince them to do so, and a big part of that was letting them come forward as part of a group.



That is incorrect; the women involved told others years and decades ago, and their story has remained consistent. Any Conspiracy Theory has to explain how, if this is all made up, they managed to go back in time and convince their younger selves to tell their tales to others.



Interesting. So if it can be shown to you that Moore has changed his story you will... What, exactly.

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Actually, as far as we know. The could have all colluded this whole thing over the course of the last year with WaPo at the helm. Yet we are getting told that this message was getting spread around between them all those years ago. This is no problem however, I am more then willing to believe them. However these women who are making these claims, were all legal at the time, save for one that I currently know of.
Though with all of them being so sketchy on details and now we have the signature being exposed by the woman herself as a forgery.

All parties in this case are having a hard time, maintaining their credibility. If both the left & right are to be believed.

I would read the citation, what else would I do?

I am just happy that this little animal farm is over with. These Doug Jones adds and anti-Moore adds are starting to get more then just a little annoying.

If Moore wins tonight - blame it on only one thing - the voters in Alabama.

Oborosen said:

Actually, as far as we know. The could have all colluded this whole thing over the course of the last year with WaPo at the helm.

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Good point. They probably used their telepathic mind powers to predict - a year ago - that Trump would name Sessions to be AG, that Strange would get caught in a corrupt deal with Governor Bentley (who would then be removed from office), that Strange would have to run in a special election overseen by the replacement Governor, that he would lose the primary to a disgrace former Justice against Trump's endorsement, and that's when they would strike. In the meantime, these super-criminals, including Democrats, Republicans, Trump, and even Moore voters managed the greatest political Conspiracy in American history, keeping near half a hundred people in line and waiting.

Yet we are getting told that this message was getting spread around between them all those years ago.

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The women told others what had happened. Decades ago.

This is no problem however, I am more then willing to believe them. However these women who are making these claims, were all legal at the time, save for one that I currently know of.
Though with all of them being so sketchy on details and now we have the signature being exposed by the woman herself as a forgery.

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That is false. The woman you are referring to wrote the date and place below his signature. Moore claimed he was going to sue, because the woman was lying, and he would be able to prove his innocence.... Yet he hasn't, even though it could possibly cost him the election. Gosh. I wonder why he wants to avoid investigation and discovery.

All parties in this case are having a hard time, maintaining their credibility. If both the left & right are to be believed.

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Not really. One side (Moore) keeps changing their story, and the other has overwhelming evidence in it's favor.

I would read the citation, what else would I do?

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And what conclusion would you draw from that.

I am just happy that this little animal farm is over with. These Doug Jones adds and anti-Moore adds are starting to get more then just a little annoying.

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[emoji38] if Moore wins today (and he probably will), then this is just beginning. We're going to be dealing with this at least through 2018, and likely through 2020.

Oborosen said:

I am just happy that this little animal farm is over with.

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Reminds me of this

What Happens if Moore wins?

BLUF: It may (interestingly) become a race between GOP Senators eager to get rid of an albatross around their necks, and Democrats who have no interest in helping them remove that albatross. The effort to kick him out of the Senate (If it occurs) will be a battle even more furious and nuclear than the Senate Race.

In the meantime, Democrats will do their best to make Moore the running mate of every single vulnerable Republican congresscritter in 2018, and (to the best of their ability) the national avatar of the GOP next to Trump (favorability currently down to 32%). Moore (and his wife) have demonstrated that their mouth's are about as stable as nitroglycerine, and they will willingly (combatively) give the national media and democrats ever-more ammunition to fire at other Republicans. Senator Franken will use Moore as his excuse not to resign, and Democrats will defend Every Single Democrat congresscritter to be outed as a sexual predator from here on out with cries of "But Moore!".

If Moore wins, we're going to hear a lot more about this.

HowardBThiname said:

You're putting words in my mouth. I'll thank you to stop it.

This thread is about whether media treatment of Moore will contribute to his win, and, I offered the evidence that it helped Trump as an example that it might.

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slick said:

It's all over Moore will win handily. Why not accept defeat and go back to the Russian Collusion stuff that
nonsense isn't on life support yet.

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jmotivator said:

As I pointed out in another thread, it really shouldn't be much of a surprise if Roy Moore wins... all that Alabamans would need to doubt is the forceful nature of Roy Moore's actions.

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PIPEWRENCH said:

The media has lost so much credibility the people figure what every they say the opposite is most likely true.

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LowDown said:

“How have we reached a point in this country when nearly half the voters of a U.S. state so mistrust, and even revile, major media outlets that they are willing to brush aside credible evidence and elect an accused sexual predator simply out of spite? How have we reached a point where a president of the United States can just declare ‘fake’ news he doesn’t like—and largely get away with it?”

How, you ask? Consider this and this.

Also:



You betcha.

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I've been waiting for the election results to post in this thread. Welp, this is awkward. Isn't it?

It looks like the people have spoken. Now lets see if he will be convicted of any wrong doing or is this just political.

Hatuey said:

I've been waiting for the election results to post in this thread. Welp, this is awkward. Isn't it?

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What is awkward about it? I didn't guarantee a Moore victory. What is awkward is you saving my quote for this post and then muffin it.

cpwill said:

Good point. They probably used their telepathic mind powers to predict - a year ago - that Trump would name Sessions to be AG, that Strange would get caught in a corrupt deal with Governor Bentley (who would then be removed from office), that Strange would have to run in a special election overseen by the replacement Governor, that he would lose the primary to a disgrace former Justice against Trump's endorsement, and that's when they would strike. In the meantime, these super-criminals, including Democrats, Republicans, Trump, and even Moore voters managed the greatest political Conspiracy in American history, keeping near half a hundred people in line and waiting.



The women told others what had happened. Decades ago.



That is false. The woman you are referring to wrote the date and place below his signature. Moore claimed he was going to sue, because the woman was lying, and he would be able to prove his innocence.... Yet he hasn't, even though it could possibly cost him the election. Gosh. I wonder why he wants to avoid investigation and discovery.



Not really. One side (Moore) keeps changing their story, and the other has overwhelming evidence in it's favor.



And what conclusion would you draw from that.



[emoji38] if Moore wins today (and he probably will), then this is just beginning. We're going to be dealing with this at least through 2018, and likely through 2020.

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Well , Well, Jones won. You must be ecstatic!. Most NeverTrumpers are. Hey I read that McMullin guy that the NeverTrumpers gathered round including French, Goldberg and half of the National Review and Weekly Standard staff rallied around as an antiTrump vote in the election has a super pac now and nobody knows who is funding it but it put in 500,000 in vote for Jones ads the last days of the campaign. I'm sure that news just warms the cockles of your heart. The never Trumper supported pro choice and everything most Republicans especially conservatives are against.

This special election was for a two year term for Mr. Jones. And If Moore is truly innocent of the charges that were brought against him as he claims, the possibility of lawsuits about to be filed for slander etc. are real. I know if someone was demeaning my character with falsehoods I would fight it all the way to restore my own dignity. We shall see.

And thank goodness the tax reform is already in conference and according to Sen Cotton it will be on Trump's desk by the end of next week for his signature and it will gut the heart out of Obamacare.



Thank goodness the SC and lower federal courts have been greatly transformed under this horrible person you call Trump keeping them from leftist thinkers that would sell our sovereignty in their interpretation of Constitutional law using International and foreign law to interpret our Constitution.

So go to bed tonight wrapping yourself in your self righteous indignation knowing you who claim to be a conservative just helped elect a lefty that is everything you claim to be against . What a hoot!

cpwill said:

Good point. They probably used their telepathic mind powers to predict - a year ago - that Trump would name Sessions to be AG, that Strange would get caught in a corrupt deal with Governor Bentley (who would then be removed from office), that Strange would have to run in a special election overseen by the replacement Governor, that he would lose the primary to a disgrace former Justice against Trump's endorsement, and that's when they would strike. In the meantime, these super-criminals, including Democrats, Republicans, Trump, and even Moore voters managed the greatest political Conspiracy in American history, keeping near half a hundred people in line and waiting.



The women told others what had happened. Decades ago.



That is false. The woman you are referring to wrote the date and place below his signature. Moore claimed he was going to sue, because the woman was lying, and he would be able to prove his innocence.... Yet he hasn't, even though it could possibly cost him the election. Gosh. I wonder why he wants to avoid investigation and discovery.



Not really. One side (Moore) keeps changing their story, and the other has overwhelming evidence in it's favor.



And what conclusion would you draw from that.



[emoji38] if Moore wins today (and he probably will), then this is just beginning. We're going to be dealing with this at least through 2018, and likely through 2020.

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He really didn't need to address it in the beginning anyway, though no one was going to be happy with whatever he decided to do against these allegations in the first place.

We have had weeks of supposed information coming in about Moore and incidents that should have been recorded, especially that Ban from the mall which turned out to be just as made up as the signature. They are not doing favors for their own credibility, pulling this kind of inane behavior.

I am still waiting for that link btw

cpwill said:

Reminds me of this

What Happens if Moore wins?

BLUF: It may (interestingly) become a race between GOP Senators eager to get rid of an albatross around their necks, and Democrats who have no interest in helping them remove that albatross. The effort to kick him out of the Senate (If it occurs) will be a battle even more furious and nuclear than the Senate Race.

In the meantime, Democrats will do their best to make Moore the running mate of every single vulnerable Republican congresscritter in 2018, and (to the best of their ability) the national avatar of the GOP next to Trump (favorability currently down to 32%). Moore (and his wife) have demonstrated that their mouth's are about as stable as nitroglycerine, and they will willingly (combatively) give the national media and democrats ever-more ammunition to fire at other Republicans. Senator Franken will use Moore as his excuse not to resign, and Democrats will defend Every Single Democrat congresscritter to be outed as a sexual predator from here on out with cries of "But Moore!".

If Moore wins, we're going to hear a lot more about this.

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This is just more of them talking out of their own asses all over again and we don't have to worry about the democrats using Moore's treatment as some sort of defense for all of their own sex offenders. Because they have been doing more then a fine job of handling that all on their own. Franken is the first time I think I have seen a democratic politician get near to being in actual trouble.

Moore's chances of winning where slim to none, despite how favorable his numbers were up until the end. I am just tired of Jones screeching "but I prosecuted the KKK" or "Moore supports white nationalism".
Hell, I was tired of the chest thumping and lies even before the presidential election was halfway through its run.

why the obsessive need to point out Trumps favorability?

slick said:

It's all over Moore will win handily.

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Welp.