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Shep Smith to Chris Wallace: ‘Why is it lie after lie after lie’

ModerateGOP said:
I have loved it in the past when they weren't pro-trump all the time. I still watch it. My love or hate for a network doesn't mean I don't watch it. People mostly seem to equate one pundit with the whole network, or even worse, one commentator who comes in for a segment to spout nonsense. Then you see threads like, "CNN wants to kill all white people!" I have my favorite commentators on each channel and these two are my favorites on this particular channel. It doesn't mean I watch them all the time or that I never watch the network because everyone else is a hack.
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I understand some opinions can be nuanced and people don't really love or hate TV networks like we do our family members; other people do not.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Now, your typical abrasiveness has pissed me off.

I want to amend my prior "correction."

1. I was actually correct when I made my statement about not having to report American citizens as foreign contacts; the error was applying it in reference to the Section 20B.1.

See Section 19 of SF 86 "Foreign Contacts.":

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ts.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGFhj7c50-bjGPsh5uWfeBcz_wOug

This was the section I was recalling from memory in my original response. (So, I was not "lying," I was just in error about which section I referred to).
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So you were right, then you were wrong, and now you are right again? :lamo

Please quote the rule that says meetings with americans do not have to be reported in that section

2. In regards to my "interpretation" not being correct?

See Section 20B "Foreign Business, Professional Activities, and Contacts."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ts.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGFhj7c50-bjGPsh5uWfeBcz_wOug

This is a much more specific instruction, limiting the report to those persons the applicant has "provided advice or support" to in the last seven years.

Why you cannot understand that the terms used, i.e. "Advice," or "Support," are both pro-active is beyond me.

Definitions:

Advice: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/advice

Support: Support - definition of support by The Free Dictionary



The only conundrum is your choice of opinions. Since you appear to support the idea of collusion you tend to lean toward any opinion that supports that belief...regardless of whether it complies with the wording of the SF 86 (and standard definitions) or not.

In the law, the first rule of interpretation is the "Plain Meaning" rule:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/statutory_construction

Basically, when reading a Federal form (which is created in response to Federal law(s) establishing the requirements) the words are presumed to mean exactly what they say...not what you on anyone else would like them to mean. :coffeepap:
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For someone who is trying so hard to assert his honesty, you sure spend a lot of time avoiding simple questions:

Who should people believe - Kushners lawyers who have years of experience in these matters, or some guy on the internet who cannot decide what the law says?
 
sangha said:
So you were right, then you were wrong, and now you are right again? :lamo

Please quote the rule that says meetings with americans do not have to be reported in that section
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I actually cited from the SF 86 form Section 19 itself, and gave you a link to the PDF. :shrug:


sangha said:
For someone who is trying so hard to assert his honesty, you sure spend a lot of time avoiding simple questions:

Who should people believe - Kushners lawyers who have years of experience in these matters, or some guy on the internet who cannot decide what the law says?
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People can "believe" anything they want. The fact remains that such simple "belief" does not make what is believed factually true. :no:

I would also advise people filling out an SF 86 to be as thorough as possible, and when in doubt...go ahead and add the information anyway.

However, such reasonable advice does not change the fact that if there was no "advice or support," then under the reporting requirements...there is no duty to report the contact. :coffeepap:
 
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Captain Adverse said:
I actually cited from the SF 86 form Section 19 itself, and gave you a link to the PDF. :shrug:
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You quoted the definition of foreign national. I did not ask about that definition

Please quote the rule that says meetings with Americans do not have to be reported



People can "believe" anything they want. The fact remains that such simple "belief" does not make what is believed factually true. :no:

I would also advise people filling out an SF 86 to be as thorough as possible, and when in doubt...go ahead and add the information anyway.

However, such reasonable advice does not change the fact that if there was no "advice or support," then under the reporting requirements...there is no duty to report the contact. :coffeepap:
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I did not ask you what people can believe. I did not ask if their beliefs are true. For someone who is trying so hard to assert his honesty, you sure spend a lot of time avoiding simple questions:

Who should people believe - Kushners lawyers who have years of experience in these matters, or some guy on the internet who cannot decide what the law says?
 
Captain Adverse said:
Irrelevant. :shrug:



I don't see this as an either/or proposition like you propose. I prefer to look at things in the best light possible. In this case, after the Flynn incident I think all of Trump's staff were told to do a fact check and update their forms to the best of their ability.

As for being expected to remember every meeting that subsequently seems to be important, when it was not considered so at the time?

I think that people meet lots of other people over the course of their lifetimes, typically considering such meetings unimportant.

This meeting with Trump Jr. was probably one of several hundred that were going on during the campaign, and according to all reports, turned out to be a bait and switch. Since nothing came of it there was nothing to remember.

I also believe it is easy to forget meeting with "foreigners" when the meeting is of minor or non-importance.

I would challenge anyone to list ALL the people they have ever met that might be a citizen of a foreign nation.
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LOL You think it is "irrelevant" that he was a Russian spy who holds dual citizenship. Like you can just quit the GRU.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The elite have been bigtime liars for a long time, there is nothing new here.
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I think there is some truth to that. But this current crop make the Keystone cops look like geniuses.

I'm still waiting to hear how many Russian kids did Don Trump Jr adopt
 
Epic. Looks almost like Shepard had a Walter Cronkite moment.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Epic. Looks almost like Shepard had a Walter Cronkite moment.
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Classic moment when Chris Wallace says" I don't know what to say". It is just that insane.

We haven't even made it to the first year of Trump's term. I still don't think he will impeached. Somewhere he will resign and blame it on the fake news.
 
Crosscheck said:
Classic moment when Chris Wallace says" I don't know what to say". It is just that insane.

We haven't even made it to the first year of Trump's term. I still don't think he will impeached. Somewhere he will resign and blame it on the fake news.
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I can not see him resigning unless the Mueller investigation leads to something awful and overwhelming.

I do think he gets impeached, but next year. The Republicans will have to do it to protect their brand and their house majorities. He pretty much is a lame duck now and in the way of their agenda. They would much rather have Pence, anyway. They just need Trump's poll numbers to drop into the low 30s.
 
upsideguy said:
I can not see him resigning unless the Mueller investigation leads to something awful and overwhelming.

I do think he gets impeached, but next year. The Republicans will have to do it to protect their brand and their house majorities. He pretty much is a lame duck now and in the way of their agenda. They would much rather have Pence, anyway. They just need Trump's poll numbers to drop into the low 30s.
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Trump is the republican brand.
 
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upsideguy said:
...which is why he needs to be publicly defrocked, which an impeachment would do.

The question is, will the Republicans be too late to save themselves.
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The better question is what is left of the Republican Party that can be saved?

Trump is only the most visible ailment affecting the Republican Party. There are the Kris Kobachs, Steve Kings, Louie gohemerts of the Republican Party. There is the blatant partisan leadership of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell who share the same win at all costs mentality that trump administration embodies.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
The better question is what is left of the Republican Party that can be saved?

Trump is only the most visible ailment affecting the Republican Party. There are the Kris Kobachs, Steve Kings, Louie gohemerts of the Republican Party. There is the blatant partisan leadership of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell who share the same win at all costs mentality that trump administration embodies.
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Well, I for one would love to shoot it and put it out of my misery...;)

The problem is the real RINO's: those that think Republicans in the middle are the RINO's. The Republicans have been much more aggressive in trying to drum out the centrists, to their own peril, then their Democratic counterparts. What they fail to understand is they need these people to survive.

Each party needs centrists to facilitate legislative deals. The idea the one party jams its agenda down the throats of the other may make for good television, but it makes for very bad government. We really need to be promoting more centrists in each party, the Cons just don't seem to get it. They like playing bully too much. But, bullies don't tend to survive very long. The end of bully rule may finally be on the horizon, now that we elected the granddaddy of all bullies and he is failing miserably.

You are correct, however, that most of the remaining party leadership is but a "basket of despicables".
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The elite have been bigtime liars for a long time, there is nothing new here.
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How did they lie? Is reporting FACTS now lies? Provide a link to their lies--but I won't be holding my breath waiting for one.

This is Shep Smith in February this year--in an 8 minute video reporting that Trump surrogates were not only on the phone with the Russian Ambassador but with Russian intelligence agents, including the very day that DNC databases were getting hacked into.


What the Trump campaign NEVER realised is that they were being watched since 2015, and NOT by U.S. Intelligence, that didn't jump in until July, 2016 when Trump surrogates met at the RNC convention with Trump surrogates and sat across the table with a Russian to write foreign policy, long before they were even close to winning an election.

Gordon had advocated for language in the GOP platform that the Ukrainians not be armed in their battle against pro-Russian separatists, an effort was ultimately successful. But Gordon says he was simply advocating what Trump himself had expressed -- that he did not wish to see major war break out over the situation in Ukraine.
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More Trump advisers disclose meeting with Russia's ambassador - CNNPolitics.com

Now this ties into Paul Manafort that was forced by the DOJ two to register as a Foreign Agent, who was working for the Russians in the 2012--2014 time period receiving 17 MILLION from them to work with the Russians, regarding Ukraine/US policies.

WASHINGTON -- President Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, has registered with the Justice Department as a foreign agent for political consulting work he did for a Ukrainian political party, acknowledging that he coached party members on how to interact with U.S. government officials. Manafort says in a Justice Department filing Tuesday that his firm, DMP International, received more than $17 million from the Party of Regions, the former pro-Russian ruling party in Ukraine, for consulting work from 2012 through 2014. Manafort is the second member of the Trump campaign to register as a foreign agent. In March, former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn registered with the Justice Department for work his consulting firm performed for a Turkish businessman that he said could have aided the Turkish government.
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Paul Manafort retroactively registers with Justice Dept. as foreign agent - CBS News

As far as all the foreign intelligence coming in since 2015, here it is.
GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added. Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia
British intelligence passed Trump associates' talks with Russian on to US counterparts - CNNPolitics.com

Jerad Kushner (on wiretap) asking the Russian ambassador for a private--secure line to the Kremlin.
Jared Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Russia, new report alleges | Fox News

Trump meets with the Russian in the oval office, block out American media lets Russian media in. Only 3 other Americans in that room, so which one leaked this information to the Washington Post?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ia-problem-much-worse/?utm_term=.9d19a25ec009
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/16/politics/trump-russian-officials-meeting-what-we-know/index.html

donald-trump-russia-meeting-scandal-oval-office-comey-firing.jpg

U.S. Intelligence warned Isreali Intelligence to not give classified information to Trump.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/us-spies-warned-israel-not-share-intelligence-trump/
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-russia-classified-intelligence-israel-2017-5

Vladimir Putin has Trump by the Cajones on something and it's going to come out.
 
Oreo said:
How did they lie? Is reporting FACTS now lies? Provide a link to their lies--but I won't be holding my breath waiting for one.

This is Shep Smith in Fe
-----------------
snip.
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Given all the long running lies and incompetence of the elite, plus that there is an Impeachment on, "The paperwork was not perfect" gets noplace with me until/unless someone can prove that Team Trump did something clearly illegal with Russia. And Manafort...you do know that he was barely around and that when he was Trump barely listened to him...right? The story that he was Putins minder might work on South but not here in reality with me.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Given all the long running lies and incompetence of the elite, plus that there is an Impeachment on, "The paperwork was not perfect" gets noplace with me until/unless someone can prove that Team Trump did something clearly illegal with Russia. And Manafort...you do know that he was barely around and that when he was Trump barely listened to him...right? The story that he was Putins minder might work on South but not here in reality with me.
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Manafort was barely around? From March to August aka 6 months is quite a while. Then we get into Michael Flynn who is up to his eyeballs in serious trouble.
Flynn reportedly lied to FBI about sanctions talk with Russian envoy | Fox News
Flynn was paid to lobby for Turkey while attending Trump intel briefings: report | TheHill
Flynn seeks immunity for testimony - CNNPolitics.com
Mark Warner: Open to holding Michael Flynn in contempt - CNNPolitics.com

Trump Jr. emails--are at minimum CONSPIRACY to collude with a Foreign Adversary to interfere into an American Election. As soon as that email read Russian Government--it was game over. Then he lied by not disclosing it, then lied again stating it was about Russian adoptions, got caught lying again, then had to admit that it was really about dirt on Hillary Clinton, then lied again about how many people were in this meeting, then was forced to release the emails, as they became aware that the NYT was going to release them. (These emails are the smoking gun of collusion.) They have denied all along that any of their surrogates had any contact with Russians during the campaign season until they all started getting busted.
Offered Russian aid to 'incriminate Hillary,' Donald Trump Jr. wrote 'I love it' - ABC News
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-contact-with-russia/?utm_term=.265e58daf579

Here is a statement from Adam Schiff--cochair of the house intelligence committee prior to Robert Mueller taking over this investigation.


I don't how many lies you can put up with, but when people are continually lying it usually means they're trying to hide something.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Yes, it's objective reality. They all either lied under oath of written forms or before congress. You can try and dance around and whine about that fact to your heart's content, but it won't change reality.

Good luck with your magical thinking.
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You wouldn't know objective reality if it jumped up and bit you in the ass. Sessions did not lie before congress. That is just you engaging in your typical partisan hackery. As to the forms, perhaps you might learn the difference between an accusation and a determination before you accuse others of magical thinking.
 
Oreo said:
Manafort was barely around? From March to August aka 6 months is quite a while..
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Not very long and you know his name never seemed to turn up much anywhere, and there were always stories that Trump was refusing to managed by guys like this...the consultant class. It appeared the main thing this guy did was teach the Trump family how conventions work, and work to set things up to go the way the voters said it should go, because the elite have lost the right to decide these things over the objections of the majority.
 
Fletch said:
You wouldn't know objective reality if it jumped up and bit you in the ass.
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But, of course, I actually do. It's how I know you don't.
Sessions did not lie before congress.
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Yes, he did, no matter how much that upsets you. It's in the record. He lied. Deal with it.
That is just you engaging in your typical partisan hackery.
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Huh. Objective reality is now, magically, 'partisan hackery'? Words have meanings. I suggest you look into that.
As to the forms, perhaps you might learn the difference between an accusation and a determination before you accuse others of magical thinking.
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Good luck with your magical thinking.

You're going to need it.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
But, of course, I actually do. It's how I know you don't.

Yes, he did, no matter how much that upsets you. It's in the record. He lied. Deal with it.

Huh. Objective reality is now, magically, 'partisan hackery'? Words have meanings. I suggest you look into that.

Good luck with your magical thinking.

You're going to need it.
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He didn't lie and no one has been found to have lied either before the senate or on any forms. Those facts wont change no matter how childish your posts get.
 
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