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Question about Jesus and Hell.

And they are ALL taken out of context...the doctrine of hellfire stems from pagan beliefs....

The context issue is one reason I do not like the technique of 'argument from lists'> People will build up whole theologies based on a single line or couplet scattered throughout the bible, but most often, the line is taken out of context, and does not mean what they say it means.
 
The context issue is one reason I do not like the technique of 'argument from lists'> People will build up whole theologies based on a single line or couplet scattered throughout the bible, but most often, the line is taken out of context, and does not mean what they say it means.

That is true for some scriptures, yet others are crystal clear...like Ezekiel 18:4...as the scripture says, let the reader use discernment...
 
That is true for some scriptures, yet others are crystal clear...like Ezekiel 18:4...as the scripture says, let the reader use discernment...

Every quote should be examined for context. EVERY one. It might be that the meaning is correct after examination.. but blinding claming it stands on it's own without examination plays the same game.
 
Every quote should be examined for context. EVERY one. It might be that the meaning is correct after examination.. but blinding claming it stands on it's own without examination plays the same game.

So, just out of curiosity, what do you think Ezekiel 18:4 is saying?
 
I don't care what Nicaea says...


You should because it determined that Jesus was a god. Which is why some 2 billion people - otherwise known as Christians - worship Jesus as a god.

God from god - sorry you don't understand this concept.


Nicaea also determined what books went into your precious Bible and if that's not a concern for you to care about, I don't know what is.
 
And,did you notice, all the quotes were from the New Testament. It shows that concept is not very Jewish, and was a pagan idea grafted on by Gentiles later on.

For example, the 'lake of fire' comes from the Egyptian book of the dead, in specifically the 'Coffin Texts', and the papyrus of Ani

I understand the the Isrealites got the idea of hell from their time in Babylon.
 
You should because it determined that Jesus was a god. Which is why some 2 billion people - otherwise known as Christians - worship Jesus as a god.

God from god - sorry you don't understand this concept.


Nicaea also determined what book went into your precious Bible and if that's not a concern for you to care about, I don't know what is.

No, I shouldn't and for good reason...

Who Selected the Canon?
Some authors have claimed that the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures was chosen centuries after the fact by a church that was an established power under the direction of the Emperor Constantine. However, the facts show otherwise.

For example, note what Professor of Church History Oskar Skarsaune states: “Which writings that were to be included in the New Testament, and which were not, was never decided upon by any church council or by any single person . . . The criteria were quite open and very sensible: Writings from the first century C.E. that were regarded as written by apostles or by their fellow workers were regarded as reliable. Other writings, letters, or ‘gospels’ that were written later were not included . . . This process was essentially completed a long time before Constantine and a long time before his church of power had been established. It was the church of martyrs, not the church of power, that gave us the New Testament.”

Ken Berding, an associate professor whose field of study is the Christian Greek Scriptures, gives this comment about how the canon emerged: “The church did not establish a canon of its choosing; it is more proper to speak of the church recognizing the books that Christians had always considered to be an authoritative Word from God.”

However, was it merely those humble first-century Christians who selected the canon? The Bible tells us that something far more important​—and powerful—​was at work.

According to the Bible, one of the miraculous gifts of the spirit that were given in the early decades of the Christian congregation was “discernment of inspired utterances.” (1 Corinthians 12:4, 10) So some of those Christians were given a superhuman ability to discern the difference between sayings that were truly inspired by God and those that were not. Christians today may thus be confident that the Scriptures included in the Bible were recognized as inspired.

Evidently, then, the canon was established at an early stage under the guidance of holy spirit. From the latter part of the second century C.E., some writers commented on the canonicity of the Bible books. These writers, however, did not establish the canon; they merely testified to what God had already accepted through his representatives, who were guided by his spirit.

Ancient manuscripts also provide compelling evidence to support the canon that is generally accepted today. There are more than 5,000 manuscripts of the Greek Scriptures in the original language, including some from the second and third centuries. It was these writings, not the apocryphal writings, that were regarded as authoritative during the early centuries C.E. and therefore were copied and widely distributed.

However, the internal evidence is the most important proof of canonicity. The canonical writings are in harmony with “the pattern of healthful words” that we find in the rest of the Bible. (2 Timothy 1:13) They urge readers to love, worship, and serve Jehovah, and they warn against superstition, demonism, and creature worship. They are historically accurate and contain true prophecy. And they encourage readers to love their fellow humans.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=362603
 
I understand the the Isrealites got the idea of hell from their time in Babylon.

You understand wrong...the Israelite nation did not believe in hellfire...
 
You understand wrong...the Israelite nation did not believe in hellfire...

Correct; at least not during the Exilic period. It wasn't until the Second Temple period that Jewish eschatology came into existence.


OM
 
You should because it determined that Jesus was a god. Which is why some 2 billion people - otherwise known as Christians - worship Jesus as a god.

God from god - sorry you don't understand this concept.


Nicaea also determined what books went into your precious Bible and if that's not a concern for you to care about, I don't know what is.

Is it not possible that 2 billion people are wrong? Based on a book that was incorrectly assembled from many parts with some left out?
 
So, just out of curiosity, what do you think Ezekiel 18:4 is saying?

Well, that is one that can not be taken out of context. It starts out with that line, after saying 'you shouldn't use xyz parable in Israel'. It then goes on to make a recietation of what a series of good acts are, and a series of bad acts. The 'live and die are spirituality/morally, according to Ezekiel (assuming he wrote it). It's a passage on 'How to life RIGHT'. Live right, and be alive spiritually and morally. Live wrong, and be dead, spiritually and morally.
 
The context issue is one reason I do not like the technique of 'argument from lists'> People will build up whole theologies based on a single line or couplet scattered throughout the bible, but most often, the line is taken out of context, and does not mean what they say it means.

Fair enough. I think the following provides the necessary context to see that Jesus was talking about a real fire:

Matthew 25:31-46 NIV - The Sheep and the Goats - “When the - Bible Gateway
 
You understand wrong...the Israelite nation did not believe in hellfire...
I have seen this a couple of times, but I do not believe it. No one that has experienced middle eastern heat can avoid the idea of punishment by fire.
 
Fair enough. I think the following provides the necessary context to see that Jesus was talking about a real fire:

Matthew 25:31-46 NIV - The Sheep and the Goats - “When the - Bible Gateway

Only the original Greek reads "into lopping off everlasting" or "cutting off everlasting" in verse 46..."cutting off" is from the Greek word kolasis and is used in “pruning" of needless branches from trees so this “cutting-off” would be “everlasting,” since the person would be cut off from life with no hope of a resurrection...
 
Hell being fire and brimstone was popularized in the Middle Ages after the publication of Dante's Inferno.

In actual fact, Hell is merely the absence of God.

If God is infinite and everything/everyone, then the natural conclusion is that the absence of God is an illusion imposed upon people by their own misuse of free will.
 
Hell being fire and brimstone was popularized in the Middle Ages after the publication of Dante's Inferno.

In actual fact, Hell is merely the absence of God.

If God is infinite and everything/everyone, then the natural conclusion is that the absence of God is an illusion imposed upon people by their own misuse of free will.

There are no actual facts regarding a make believe concept.
 
Only the original Greek reads "into lopping off everlasting" or "cutting off everlasting" in verse 46..."cutting off" is from the Greek word kolasis and is used in “pruning" of needless branches from trees so this “cutting-off” would be “everlasting,” since the person would be cut off from life with no hope of a resurrection...

Do you read the original Greek?
 
Translated by who? How do you know their translation is accurate if you can't read the original Greek?

Look it up for yourself if you doubt it...:roll:
 
Look it up for yourself if you doubt it...:roll:

Why can't you tell me? Who translated it? How do you know that their translation is accurate? How do you verify its accuracy?
 
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