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Nothing made everything....

Anyone can make up their own branch of philosophy.
Correction. Everyone is his own branch of philosophy, potentially. But some never develop beyond the bud; others are stunted as shoots; while a few branches are blighted by close-mindedness and never develop at all.
 
No, I'm afraid philosophy does define a subject, indeed every subject. To the extent that engineering defines itself, engineering is engaged in the philosophy of engineering. Same with science and every other human activity. Your error is to think of philosophy as a kind of outside agency, like the FDA, setting guidelines and defining terms. The philosophy of every field of study emerges from within that field of study. Philosophy is the rational self-examination of every field of human activity and thought.
You’re still wildly missing the point. You need to get back to Communications 101 and how language itself works to begin with. Language is just a set of symbols used to represent various meanings. “Dope” represents a dumb person. It also represents marijuana. It also represents something being cool, rad, awesome, etc. These are all ways that the word “dope” is used. They are all correct. As long as the receiver of the message understands the correct usage and context of the word and therefore understands the meaning that the sender of the message intends to convey, proper communication has occurred.

People in the scientific community use the words evidence, theory, law, and hypothesis in a specific way. And it’s not the way you guys are claiming. You can choose to use the words differently than them, but if you are attempting to communicate in a scientific context it’s going to cause confusion.
 
You’re still wildly missing the point. You need to get back to Communications 101 and how language itself works to begin with. Language is just a set of symbols used to represent various meanings. “Dope” represents a dumb person. It also represents marijuana. It also represents something being cool, rad, awesome, etc. These are all ways that the word “dope” is used. They are all correct. As long as the receiver of the message understands the correct usage and context of the word and therefore understands the meaning that the sender of the message intends to convey, proper communication has occurred.

People in the scientific community use the words evidence, theory, law, and hypothesis in a specific way. And it’s not the way you guys are claiming. You can choose to use the words differently than them, but if you are attempting to communicate in a scientific context it’s going to cause confusion.
Much obliged for the linguistics lesson, but you're way off the point with it. ITN and gfm are not talking about ordinary language or the dynamics of everyday communication. They are talking about the foundational assumptions and semantic commitments of a field of study. As I pointed out to you, for naught apparently, even in your engineering example, the foundational theories and concepts are the business of philosophy of engineering, notwithstanding what the ordinary conversation of engineers consists in. This foundational analysis of engineering is the province of philosophers of engineering, trained in engineering and committed to laying out the philosophical groundwork of their field of study. In natural science as well, however the scientists in the labs and research facilities converse.

The philosophical grounding of a field of study is one thing; the everyday practice in that field is another. There is a philosophy of art, which practicing artists for the most part don't know and need not know to practice their art.
 
It studies how and why we reason in those areas...


Yes, philosophy must not make use of outside sources.


Like the Big Bang Theory? The Theory of Evolution? The Theory of Abiogenesis? ... Think about what you're asserting there, good buddy... ;)

I asserted nothing of the sort. You simply make a weak implication. Once again you pretend your superstitious beliefs with no evidence to back them or even a good reason to believe them is the equal of these theories. How laughable you are.
 
Argument of the Stone fallacy... You are claiming my comments to be absurd without any counterargument.


Actually, my debate style is a very honest and rational debate style. It keeps focus on the substance of arguments and notes the logical errors that people make.

No, you simply make absurd statements, twist definitions to suite yourself and attack any who disagree with a false calling of a fallacy. That really is a dishonest way of debating.
 
Much obliged for the linguistics lesson, but you're way off the point with it. ITN and gfm are not talking about ordinary language or the dynamics of everyday communication. They are talking about the foundational assumptions and semantic commitments of a field of study. As I pointed out to you, for naught apparently, even in your engineering example, the foundational theories and concepts are the business of philosophy of engineering, notwithstanding what the ordinary conversation of engineers consists in. This foundational analysis of engineering is the province of philosophers of engineering, trained in engineering and committed to laying out the philosophical groundwork of their field of study. In natural science as well, however the scientists in the labs and research facilities converse.

The philosophical grounding of a field of study is one thing; the everyday practice in that field is another. There is a philosophy of art, which practicing artists for the most part don't know and need not know to practice their art.

None of that is relevant to how the word “evidence” is used in the field of science. When scientists call something a theory, they don’t mean “this has stood one null hypothesis test.” None of them use the word that way. Science does not use the word that way.
 
None of that is relevant to how the word “evidence” is used in the field of science. When scientists call something a theory, they don’t mean “this has stood one null hypothesis test.” None of them use the word that way. Science does not use the word that way.
You keep using the word "irrelevant." What ITN and gfm are talking about may indeed be irrelevant to what you're talking about, and what you're talking about may indeed be irrelevant to what they are talking about. All that tells us is that you and they are talking past one another. They're talking about one thing, and you're talking about another. For hundreds of posts. I've tried to clear up your differences, but carry on if you insist. It's all the same to me.
 
Once again you respond with nothing to support your case. This post is 100% “nuh uh.”

I have already supported my argument. Argument of the Stone fallacy. Fallacy fallacy.
 
It’s irrelevant to what I’m saying. You can apply philosophical thought to whatever you want, but that doesn’t mean philosophy defines the subject.
Philosophy defines some words. Science defines other words. Logic defines words. Mathematics defines words. You are making a compositional error.
You can apply philosophical concepts to being an engineer but that doesn’t mean philosophers were the ones who decided the definition of the word “cavitation.”
This word is defined by engineering.
Cavitation is the creation of many tiny bubbles in a fluid due to low pressure and movement, most often in a scenario like moving a propeller through water.
WRONG. Cavitation means a stalled propeller or impeller. It can occur in any fluid. In water, you get the little bubbles.
Nobody gives a **** what the philosopher wants to claim it means.
Because the term is defined by engineering.
Engineers use the term the way they want to use the term.
Correct.
They understand the term that way,
Correct. They defined the term.
and if some philosopher waltzes in with an entirely different way to use the word they’re going to ignore the fool.
'Cavitation' is not defined by philosophy. It is defined by engineering.
It’s the same with the word “evidence.
The word 'evidence' is defined by philosophy and logic.
" Scientists don’t use the word the way that guy is claiming and really nobody gives a crap what he thinks about it.
The meaning doesn't change in the world of science.
I’m a pilot. The word “gear” means the wheels I land on, in an aviation context. And nothing else.
What about your flight gear? What about your radio gear? What about the gears in your engine?
A philosopher didn’t define that.
The term 'gear' (like the kind found in your engine) is defined by engineering and (like what you call your landing gear) by mariners The term wandered into aviation along with the navigation lights you use, and other mariner defined terms, such as the 'bilge' in your airplane. 'Rigging' is also in your airplane. That is a term defined by engineering. 'Rigging' is also on a ship, and on a crane.
A philosopher doesn’t get to come in and tell me I’m using the word wrong.
This philosopher is doing just that.
I’m not.
You are. The term 'gear' as used by mariners (and aviators) may refer to any collection of 'stuff'. People commonly use both the engineering definition and the mariner definition.
100% of pilots understand exactly what I mean when I say the word “gear.” In an aviation context, that’s what it means to the people who matter.
No, they don't. They have no idea whether you are talking about your landing gear, your radio gear, your flight gear, your computer gear, your antenna gear, your training gear, etc. unless they gather it from other context.
To campers, gear means something else entirely. They’re not wrong. They’re in a different context. Also not defined by philosophy.
Nope. Means the same thing as the mariner definition, unless they are using the engineering definition; just like in aviation or at sea.
 
Yes, but it does not make **** up about those things. It must work within the parameters of that branch of knowledge. Except for religion where you can make up anything you want and then blame a god for it.

The only parameter of philosophy is that no outside source is used.
 
Yes you do.
No, he's actually been quite accurate calling out fallacies you keep falling into. He's also been quite accurate pointing out paradoxes people make.
You simply make up the most absurd comments
Paradoxes and fallacies are due YOUR comments.
and when pointed out to you they are absurd
You don't point out your comments as absurd.
instead of giving good reason you play the fallacy card
You are now denying your own argument. A fallacy is not a 'card'. It is an error in logic, just like a mistake in arithmetic is an error in mathematics. Logic is a closed functional system, just like mathematics. You can't just deny an error in logic that you made. Go on with your argument and stop making the error.
and pretend the fault is with who ever called you out.
You are not calling out yourself.
It is a very dishonest way of debating.
You are not debating. You are barely making any sense at all at the moment.
You make up any **** you want and then just pretend anyone who disagrees is creating a fallacy.
WRONG. A fallacy is a definite thing. It is an error in logic.
 
You keep using the word "irrelevant." What ITN and gfm are talking about may indeed be irrelevant to what you're talking about, and what you're talking about may indeed be irrelevant to what they are talking about. All that tells us is that you and they are talking past one another. They're talking about one thing, and you're talking about another. For hundreds of posts. I've tried to clear up your differences, but carry on if you insist. It's all the same to me.
You apparently missed how this line of conversation started. Feel free to step out of it if you aren’t aware of the context
 
Philosophy defines some words. Science defines other words. Logic defines words. Mathematics defines words. You are making a compositional error.

This word is defined by engineering.

WRONG. Cavitation means a stalled propeller or impeller. It can occur in any fluid. In water, you get the little bubbles.

Because the term is defined by engineering.

Correct.

Correct. They defined the term.

'Cavitation' is not defined by philosophy. It is defined by engineering.

The word 'evidence' is defined by philosophy and logic.

The meaning doesn't change in the world of science.

What about your flight gear? What about your radio gear? What about the gears in your engine?

The term 'gear' (like the kind found in your engine) is defined by engineering and (like what you call your landing gear) by mariners The term wandered into aviation along with the navigation lights you use, and other mariner defined terms, such as the 'bilge' in your airplane. 'Rigging' is also in your airplane. That is a term defined by engineering. 'Rigging' is also on a ship, and on a crane.

This philosopher is doing just that.

You are. The term 'gear' as used by mariners (and aviators) may refer to any collection of 'stuff'. People commonly use both the engineering definition and the mariner definition.

No, they don't. They have no idea whether you are talking about your landing gear, your radio gear, your flight gear, your computer gear, your antenna gear, your training gear, etc. unless they gather it from other context.

Nope. Means the same thing as the mariner definition, unless they are using the engineering definition; just like in aviation or at sea.

You hit the mark, finally, in your last remarks. They gather my meaning from context. The word is used within a context that is important to understanding the intended message. This has been my point all along.

You use the word “evidence” and “theory” different than scientists use it when in their field.
 
Every single argument for a creator boils down to the same non sequitur: We exist, therefore we were created by an intelligent being.

That is not a non-sequitur. Fallacy fallacy.

The Theory of Creation is but one of two theories that life itself is supporting evidence. The other is the Theory of Abiogenesis. Both theories are nonscientific theories. They remain circular arguments, when in and of themselves is not a fallacy. Both theories have arguments extending from those initial circular arguments. Both theories are therefore religions. Both theories have people trying to prove them. Both theories have fundamentalists in those religions. A fundamentalist makes the circular argument fallacy (the failure to recognize a circular argument).

The Theory of Creation doesn't even require a god or gods. It simply refers to the actions of a intelligence. It does not try to define what that intelligence is. We could be the result of some lab experiment gone horribly wrong on some alien world and they dumped it here to get rid of it. That is still the Theory of Creation.

Christians place the role of 'intelligence' to be a god. That changes nothing about either theory.

Atheism is also a religion. It is not possible to prove a god or gods exist, but it is also not possible to prove a god or gods do not exist. Atheism itself is based on the initial circular argument that no god or gods exist and extend arguments from that.

A non-sequitur fallacy is the use of an unrelated predicate to a conclusion. An example of a non-sequitur argument is, "the last card I drew was a three of clubs, therefore my dog is hungry.". No card or cards drawn have anything to do with dogs or their state of hunger.

If you want to claim a fallacy here, it must be directed to a specific individual making the fallacy. To someone trying to prove Christianity, for example,that fallacy would be the circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism). Directing a fallacy to a group of individuals is a compositional error, a fallacy in it's own right. That fallacy occurs when one tries to extend the property of an element of a class across the entire class or to the class itself. You should cautious about this particular fallacy. If the class is people, this fallacy is also called 'bigotry'. That's what 'bigotry' is. If the property being extended is a genetic trait, that fallacy is known as 'racism' also. Those who have a habit of making compositional errors usually make the mistake of applying it to people as the class at some point.
 
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You apparently missed how this line of conversation started. Feel free to step out of it if you aren’t aware of the context
Appearances can be deceiving, as you surely know. I've followed this line of conversation simultaneously in two threads currently active and one other no longer active. So I am both aware of the context and feel free to step out of it. I have this funny aversion to wasting my time.
 
You apparently missed how this line of conversation started. Feel free to step out of it if you aren’t aware of the context

Fallacy fallacy. She does have the correct context.
 
Well...at least now you're trying to argue. As I see it, the issues are these:
?? I have been presenting arguments all this time. WTF???
1. You've got your own definition of philosophy, philosophical argument, and so on...which you can have, but at the risk of your views being irrelevant to what anyone else is doing.
No, you just deny philosophy.
2. Similarly, your statements in favor of your view are just apparently attempts to save an ad hoc principle. That is, there doesn't appear to be any reason to accept your views about who is and is not a philosopher (none you've given anyway) other than the principle you've offered (no outside sources!). Since this principle isn't something so basic as an axiom of logic that everyone just kinda "gets," your argument is circular, and hence fallacious.
Fallacy fallacy. There is no circular argument here. Philosophy is not a 'who'. It's a 'what'. You seem to think philosophy is a 'who'.
3. Nothing in my position implies that "everything that comes out of a philosopher's mouth is philosophy" (nor did I say that philosophy is a list of respected philosophers). Philosophers use outside sources while doing philosophy, as anyone who is reasonably widely read in the field would know. So, again, you'll need to actually argue your case if you want reasonable readers to accept your views.
Welcome to your new paradox. Which is it, dude?

You don't 'do' philosophy. Philosophy is not a person. Philosophy simply is. It is simply the reasoning of an argument. It uses no outside sources. It does not borrow the arguments of others to make an argument.

4. Finally, I think something needs to be said about your behavior. You seem to think that imperious--and frankly, rude--pronouncements are all you need to post.
Insult fallacy. Inversion fallacy.
You don't help your credibility by, for example, claiming that credentials claimed on internet boards are worthless,
They are. They are utterly useless to support an argument on any forum. There is no way to prove them.
and then turning around and claiming (apparently) that you and maybe a few other privileged and like-minded individuals alone understand philosophy,
I never made any such claim.
while everyone else who thinks they at least kinda understand it are idiots who are totally unfamiliar with what real philosophy is.
True Scotsman fallacy. Philosophy simply is.It is a 'what', it is not a 'who'. Philosophy is quite open. The only rule is that it does not use outside sources.
If you were actually familiar with philosophy, for example, you'd have had a more detailed response to my lists right off the bat,
Already answered in previous posts and here again. Philosophy is not a 'who'.
and you'd probably have explained your use of Pascal in light of his semi-frequent gospel references
Not a philosophical argument. You are referring to Pascal's Wager. This is an argument in logic, not philosophy. It applies to more than just the gospel or religion. It is actually the name of the fallacy he pointed out now.
and your "no outside sources!" principle.
No outside sources are used. No argument of philosophy can use arguments borrowed or taken from others. No Holy Links. No Holy Quotes. No Youtube videos. No outside source or argument at all.
Your credibility is further damaged by your other non-standard uses of terms (predicate rather than proposition,
No, I meant predicate. I mean predicate. You are now denying logic. That term is defined in logic.
undefine rather than misdefine,
No, I meant 'undefined'. You are attempting to undefine words completely. You are attempting to convert them into voids.
 
paradox rather than inconsistency or contradiction, etc.).
No, I meant 'paradox'. You have now a paradox outstanding. Arguing both sides of a paradox is irrational. You must clear your paradox to make any further comments related to it. Denying your paradox does not make it go away. The only way to clear a paradox is to reject one argument utterly and to never use it again.
It is still further damaged by the different ways in which you treat various posts.
I generally post in response to posts. They are treated according to the response required.
You're quick to respond to every single point of some, but respond to just one or two of mine, avoiding all the ones that would obviously land you in hot water.
Compositional error fallacy. I am not required to respond to every point in a post. In lengthy posts, it is not practical due to software limits. I do not necessarily respond to arguments I have already responded to.
You seem to be betting that, over time, no one will bother to trace back through your conversations--which is probably a good bet in this day and age.
Anyone who wants to can do so. Indeed, there are times when I encourage it when people are lying. I do not bet on anything of the sort.
I'm only responding here because you've posted something relatively novel.
Nothing novel here, other than your attempt to define philosophy as a 'who'.
If you respond as you usually have (by simply repeating, ab decretum, what you've already decreed) expect silence from me.
If you can argue your case, I'm happy to continue discussion.
Welcome to another new fallacy. Which is it, dude?
I'm more open than might seem to be the case to the possibility that contemporary philosophers aren't really philosophers, for example--but you'll have to actually give some reason to think so.
I have already said why. Philosophy is not a 'who'. It is a 'what'.
Not just denounce them and claim that I must not be familiar with philosophy.
You are denying philosophy. You are trying to define philosophy as a 'who'.
 
I asserted nothing of the sort. You simply make a weak implication. Once again you pretend your superstitious beliefs with no evidence to back them or even a good reason to believe them is the equal of these theories. How laughable you are.

The Theory of the Big Bang, the Theory of Evolution, the Theory of Abiogenesis, and the Theory of Creation are all nonscientific theories. They are all religions. They all have the same common traits.

Science has no theory about a past unobserved event. They are not falsifiable.
 
No, you simply make absurd statements, twist definitions to suite yourself and attack any who disagree with a false calling of a fallacy. That really is a dishonest way of debating.

Back again to denying logic, and your 'lying' mantra. Normally I delete these as well.
 
None of that is relevant to how the word “evidence” is used in the field of science. When scientists call something a theory, they don’t mean “this has stood one null hypothesis test.” None of them use the word that way. Science does not use the word that way.

The word 'evidence' is defined by philosophy and logic. Its meaning does not change in the world of science. The word 'theory' is defined by philosophy and logic. A 'theory' is an explanatory argument. That does not change for science.

A theory of science is a falsifiable theory. Any other theory is not a theory of science. All theories begin initially as circular arguments. It is the test of falsifiability and ONLY the test of falsifiability that takes a theory beyond a simple circular argument.
 
You hit the mark, finally, in your last remarks. They gather my meaning from context. The word is used within a context that is important to understanding the intended message. This has been my point all along.

You use the word “evidence” and “theory” different than scientists use it when in their field.

The meaning of 'evidence' and 'theory' does not change in the context of science.
 
4. Finally, I think something needs to be said about your behavior. ...

You've exhibited far more patience with him than I could have. In my experience, miasmic causticity in debate, and purblind awareness of it, are conditions of a personality that chronically hamstrings meaningful philosophical discourse. Most debate forums are replete with them. The only success I've experienced is to not engage. (Not that I follow my own advice as well as I should...)
 
You've exhibited far more patience with him than I could have. In my experience, miasmic causticity in debate, and purblind awareness of it, are conditions of a personality that chronically hamstrings meaningful philosophical discourse. Most debate forums are replete with them. The only success I've experienced is to not engage. (Not that I follow my own advice as well as I should...)

Yeah...seems to be all that can be done for him, I'm afraid.
 
Never felt better in my life. You?

Good to hear. I'm great. Currently cruising the Seine with wife and good friends from our Cairo days. In Rouen today. I'll say hello to Joan of Arc for you.
 
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