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Jehovah's pedofiles

zyzygy said:
Satan is a fictional character. All religions have a fictional bad guy.
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Thank goodness, I thought we were going to have a discussion around a church issue without unsolicited tut-tut trolling from the superior atheist squad. I was starting to pine...and I hate pining on Mondays. Thanks for saving the day, Zy…. :lol:
 
tosca1 said:
....BUT if they (the hierarchy, the clergy).....if they cover up.....then, they are participating in victimizing the Church.
They are plain and simple: accomplices.
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I agree. The hierarchy is covering it up, they are indeed victimizing their own church.


Frankly, I almost hold the church (meaning those in power that know that the pedophilia is going on) MORE accountable. The pedophiles are sick and twisted individuals that cannot/will not control their impulses. Those in power have the ability to see the crimes and get the criminals out of reach of children with a phone call to police and CPS.
 
zyzygy said:
Satan is a fictional character. All religions have a fictional bad guy.
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At least that's what he would like for you to think. You do realize that one of his name's is The Great Deceiver. and as the ole saying goes...'the greatest trick that the devil ever pulled off is to convince people he doesn't exist.'

The Bible certainly says He exists...Put on the whole armor of God so that ye may be able to withstand all the Wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against Powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


After death on the Cross, Jesus went into Hell for three days and fought Satan, and won the fight of sin and death, then was resurrected and now sits at the right hand of the Father, acting as intermediary for us when we pray.

That is why we come to Christ, to be saved (live forever), and to washed clean from sin. He won the fight for us, and Jesus is the only we can go to for that, and to speak to God (this is our Christian belief).
 
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tosca1 said:
And?

A pervert is a pervert. Perverts will naturally work in places where it'll be easy to prey on their victims.
We see tons of coaches who are perverts - why? Because being a coach not only gives them access to their victims, but they can also use their authority over their victims!

What is better than having that perception of "authority" because they see you as a "man of God?"
That kind of authority must trump coaches and teachers and daycare workers and therapists!


This is not about religion. It's about having access to victims by predators.
The Church is victimized too, you know.



If that isn't clear enough - answer this: Do you think a pedophile will want to work in a retirement home?
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The church has not been victimized.

The church is the victimizer.

Duh.
 
year2late said:
I agree. The hierarchy is covering it up, they are indeed victimizing their own church.


Frankly, I almost hold the church (meaning those in power that know that the pedophilia is going on) MORE accountable.
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Yes! It's in the Bible too - the leaders are going to be held MORE accountable.

Luke 12
47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.
48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.


Surely, leaders can't plead ignorance about what is forbidden, and what God wants.
 
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Tanngrisnir said:
The church has not been victimized.

The church is the victimizer.

Duh.
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:roll:

Go back a page or two, and read! I've already explained that.
You're arguing from an ignorant stance!

Duh.
 
Davey said:
At least that's what he would like for you to think. You do realize that one of his name's is The Great Deceiver. and as the ole saying goes...'the greatest trick that the devil ever pulled off is to convince people he doesn't exist.'

The Bible certainly says He exists...Put on the whole armor of God so that ye may be able to withstand all the Wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against Powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


After death on the Cross, Jesus went into Hell for three days and fought Satan, and won the fight of sin and death, then was resurrected and now sits at the right hand of the Father, acting as intermediary for us when we pray.

That is why we come to Christ, to be saved (live forever), and to washed clean from sin. He won the fight for us, and Jesus is the only we can go to for that, and to speak to God (this is our Christian belief).
Click to expand...

Either Zyg is getting reached to by God (but unfortunately, Zyg is resisting, trying hard to tune Him out)......or Zyg is among the proverbial "minion" stipulated in the Bible.


John 8
43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.


One way or the other, religion is getting to Zyg.
That is quite obvious.
 
file:///C:/Users/imiss/Downloads/cpt_E.pdf
 
tosca1 said:
And?

A pervert is a pervert. Perverts will naturally work in places where it'll be easy to prey on their victims.
We see tons of coaches who are perverts - why? Because being a coach not only gives them access to their victims, but they can also use their authority over their victims!

What is better than having that perception of "authority" because they see you as a "man of God?"
That kind of authority must trump coaches and teachers and daycare workers and therapists!


This is not about religion. It's about having access to victims by predators.
The Church is victimized too, you know.



If that isn't clear enough - answer this: Do you think a pedophile will want to work in a retirement home?
Click to expand...

The point is that coaches, hopefully, don't get the support and the help of the organisation they work for to cover up the crimes and set them up in a new place to do it all over again.
 
OlNate said:
Jet...no, definitions are not irrelevant. The children being victimized are "the church"... Normally I wouldn't split hairs, but there's a clear misunderstanding here. What she's saying is that it hurts our people too.

And no, it's not just the children are victimized. Would you be unaffected if your kid was abused or molested? Would their siblings and grandparents? Families go to these churches. Also, given the trust factor, the entire church is hurt when a leader engages in this activity. Yes, the abused child is the foremost victim, and suffers the worse, no question...but if you think everyone else involved is like "meh", you're not understanding the situation.
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If your kid was beaten such that he was hospitalised by a teacher at school would you say that the school was the victim or the organisation you would sue?
 
tosca1 said:
:roll:

Go back a page or two, and read! I've already explained that.
You're arguing from an ignorant stance!

Duh.
Click to expand...

See above.

You are the 100% ignorant self blinding [not allowed to ues appropriate words].
 
Tim the plumber said:
The point is that coaches, hopefully, don't get the support and the help of the organisation they work
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That happened, too. Hello Sandusky? Hello Nassar? Do those ring a bell?
Even the Boy Scouts isn't immuned to that kind of thing.


Inside the Boy Scouts' 'Perversion Files'

Inside the Boy Scouts' 'Perversion Files' ? LA Times



Don't underestimate the creativity of a determined pervert!


Like I've said.....this isn't about religion.
This isn't about baseball, or gymnastics, or groups for teens or kids.

This is about perverts - with people who could either be perverts themselves, or involved with corruption of some sort, who covered up for them, or had looked the other way.

Church leaders should know better than anyone, that they are supposed to protect the sheep (the congregation)
from wolves.
 
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Tim the plumber said:
If your kid was beaten such that he was hospitalised by a teacher at school would you say that the school was the victim or the organisation you would sue?
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This is where definitions are important, and where ignoring them makes for false equivalencies like this. To a Christian, we are all "The Church", which is Biblical. It refers to the community.

I'm not saying you're wrong about assigning responsibility...in fact, I don't think anyone is. These are the hurdles you face when you want to talk to someone about their culture, when you're not familiar with it. Misunderstandings are normal, often it's best to listen before ramming one's rebuttal down another's throat - you might find out no rebuttal was needed.
 
The church is being victimized be all that do not report to the police etc. If the leaders are not directing this action , then it is the culture of the church and the church is no longer a victim.
 
OlNate said:
This is where definitions are important, and where ignoring them makes for false equivalencies like this. To a Christian, we are all "The Church", which is Biblical. It refers to the community.

I'm not saying you're wrong about assigning responsibility...in fact, I don't think anyone is. These are the hurdles you face when you want to talk to someone about their culture, when you're not familiar with it. Misunderstandings are normal, often it's best to listen before ramming one's rebuttal down another's throat - you might find out no rebuttal was needed.
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Calling the church something other than what it is, the organisation, in order to avoid it having to take responsibility for the gross acts of evil that it has done, is doing, and is structured to continue to do is very very bad.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Calling the church something other than what it is, the organisation, in order to avoid it having to take responsibility for the gross acts of evil that it has done, is doing, and is structured to continue to do is very very bad.
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I would agree. But that's not what's happening here. :shrug: You want to talk about Church stuff, learn Church terminology. Or if you are determined to be outraged, follow your bliss. I'm just trying to help you understand the definitions better, in case you actually want to talk about the issue, vs. bang Christians over the head. :)
 
OlNate said:
I would agree. But that's not what's happening here. :shrug: You want to talk about Church stuff, learn Church terminology. Or if you are determined to be outraged, follow your bliss. I'm just trying to help you understand the definitions better, in case you actually want to talk about the issue, vs. bang Christians over the head. :)
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I will stick to the legal definitions used by almost everybody.

Those who wish to hide behind odd word usage I will consider to be doing the work of helping to cover the crime again.
 
Tim the plumber said:

I will stick to the legal definitions used by almost everybody.

Those who wish to hide behind odd word usage I will consider to be doing the work of helping to cover the crime again.
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What does the Church call child sexual abuse? Do you know?
 
Tim the plumber said:

I will stick to the legal definitions used by almost everybody.

Those who wish to hide behind odd word usage I will consider to be doing the work of helping to cover the crime again.
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Cool! You do you… :lol: People choose ignorance for all kinds of reasons, I'm sure you have yours. You're not gonna solve anything, of course, but I'm sure you feel really good about yourself, and that's what's important.

Have a good one. :)
 
Since it's apparent nobody bothered reading my link...

Definitions: Child abuse may include neglect, physical abuse, sexual abuse, or emotional abuse.
Child sexual abuse is a perversion and generally includes one or more of the following: sexual intercourse
with a child; oral or anal sex with a child; fondling the genitals, breasts, or buttocks of a child;
voyeurism of a child; indecent exposure to a child; or soliciting a child for sexual conduct. It may include
sexting with a minor or showing pornography to a minor.
In this document, references to parents apply equally to legal guardians or other persons who hold parental
responsibility for a minor.
1. Children are a sacred trust, “an inheritance from Jehovah.”—Psalm 127:3.
2. The protection of children is of utmost concern and importance to all Jehovah’s Witnesses.
This is in harmony with the long-standing and widely published Scripturally based position of Jehovah’s
Witnesses, as reflected in the references at the end of this document, which are all published on
jw.org.
3. Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and view it as a crime. (Romans 12:9) We recognize
that the authorities are responsible for addressing such crimes. (Romans 13:1-4) The elders do not
shield any perpetrator of child abuse from the authorities.
4. In all cases, victims and their parents have the right to report an accusation of child abuse to
the authorities. Therefore, victims, their parents, or anyone else who reports such an accusation to the
elders are clearly informed by the elders that they have the right to report the matter to the authorities.
Elders do not criticize anyone who chooses to make such a report.—Galatians 6:5

5. When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch
office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws. (Romans 13:1)
Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of Jehovah’s
Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or
there is some other valid reason. Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation
of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the
other parent.
6. Parents have the primary responsibility for the protection, safety, and instruction of their children.
Therefore, parents who are members of the congregation are encouraged to be vigilant in exercising
their responsibility at all times and to do the following:
• Have direct and active involvement in their children’s lives.
• Educate themselves and their children about child abuse.
• Encourage, promote, and maintain regular communication with their children.
—Deuteronomy 6:6, 7; Proverbs 22:3.

file:///C:/Users/imiss/Downloads/cpt_E.pdf
 
OlNate said:
Cool! You do you… :lol: People choose ignorance for all kinds of reasons, I'm sure you have yours. You're not gonna solve anything, of course, but I'm sure you feel really good about yourself, and that's what's important.

Have a good one. :)
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Your avoidance of recognising the deliberate structural safeguarding of the perpertrators of child sexula abuse, Fking boys up the A** when they don't want it, then making them feel that they are the guilty ones, by changing the meaning of words to suit your particular wish at any point in any sentence, often several times per sentence, is noted.

I consider you one of the enablers of the arse raping organisation. Be happy, try your damnedest to think everybody considers you respectable.
 
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