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Happy Birthday Conservative Debt Concerns

Vern said:
Yes, you were born on this day 6 short years ago. Sure, some people expressed mild concerns before that but it was just a little kicking in the womb. On this day 6 years ago you burst into world kicking and screaming. Literally. Like a colicky baby you just couldn’t be pacified. You wanted your massive budget cuts and you wanted them now. you just wouldn’t listen to reason that budget cuts will only make the Great Bush Recession worse. The most important thing was to end the Great Bush Recession and get the economy growing we explained. But to no avail.

Oh how you screamed over and over “ the stimulus would cause hyper inflation, dollar collapse, market to zero” . What did you care about the economy cratering at -8.2% and losing 700,000 jobs a month with the financial system in ruins, you were just born. Mad about not getting your way you screamed that bailing out the auto companies was wrong and illegal even. You couldnt undertand that the autobailout reduced the deficit. What did you know, you werent even 6 months old. You screamed about everything.

Don’t even get me started on the “terrible twos”.
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now let's hear you say it ... " Thank you, President Bush, for bailing out the Automakers"

while you are at it... say" Thank you, President Bush, for bailing out the financial sector"
 
MTAtech said:
You know, I opened my house windows and it started to rain. Opening the window must have made it rain. Ok, if your theory, such as it is, is that the Democratic controlled Congress was responsible for the recession, what policies did that Congress pass that caused the recession?
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What a hilarious analogy. The facts are as I posted initially. Right now, the liberals blame a Republican congress for Obama's failures, just as the Republicans blamed the Democrat congress for the failures in '06. It's both parties. Demmies and just as guilty as the Repubs

Sorry you're way too partisan to see reality. I hope this helped clear up your confusion.
 
MTAtech said:
You know, I opened my house windows and it started to rain. Opening the window must have made it rain. Ok, if your theory, such as it is, is that the Democratic controlled Congress was responsible for the recession, what policies did that Congress pass that caused the recession?
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he said both parties.... not just Democrats.


on that same token... what executive action did Bush put into play that has him causing the recession?
 
11Bravo said:
I see now that you're a liberal extremist. You, exactly like the extremist conservatives, are not able to see reality. You ONLY see on side of the story. Your dangerous way of thinking is exactly why no one wants to work with Obama, and why Obama doesn't want to work with anyone. The only code you need to crack is the partisan code. Until then, enjoy living in your underground bunker with Al Gore plotting against the Republicans.
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Bravo, I suspected you were really a conservative. Your points were whiny vague and non specific. You didn’t even attempt to address what I posted and you somehow think this is a chat room instead of a debate forum. Your delusional rant only confirms what I suspected. Read this is as slow as possible until you get it.

Posting facts is not extremist.
whining at facts is.

Oh and thanks for the debt, Democrat Congress of 2006.
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another thing do , extremists try to make the facts fit their narratives. when the actual facts don’t work, they create them themselves. Congratulations, you’re a conservative.
 
Vern said:
Bravo, I suspected you were really a conservative. Your points were whiny vague and non specific. You didn’t even attempt to address what I posted and you somehow think this is a chat room instead of a debate forum. Your delusional rant only confirms what I suspected. Read this is as slow as possible until you get it.

Posting facts is not extremist.
whining at facts is.



another thing do , extremists try to make the facts fit their narratives. when the actual facts don’t work, they create them themselves. Congratulations, you’re a conservative.
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Yes, we know you think everyone is a conservative. It's how liberals operate. Conservatives operate the same way actually. It's why you two are perfect for each other, yet at the same time destroying a nation.

Just as you did in 2006 creating one hell of a recession. Pelosi's finest hour.
 
MTAtech said:
While deficit hawks are quick to obsess about deficits and debt, neither is America's main problem. Unemployment trumps debt as a concern and only an economic illiterate would focus on reducing a sustainable deficit while many are unemployed.

Moreover, according to these same conservative deficit hawks, we can’t afford unemployment benefits or public investment, but when it come to cutting taxes on the rich, money is literally no object.
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Since Democrats and the President are crowing about 5.6% unemployment, just what spending do you want your government to do to reduce unemployment further and what time is the right time to address the debt and in-year deficits? Or are you like most liberals who believe that once a form of spending is established by government, no matter what the original circumstances, that spending must never die?
 
Thrilla said:
now let's hear you say it ... " Thank you, President Bush, for bailing out the Automakers"

while you are at it... say" Thank you, President Bush, for bailing out the financial sector"
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Oh thrilla, the first thing you need to understand, blind and ignorant partisan obedience is an attribute of the right. You conveniently assume if your side does it then so does everybody. anyhoo, watch this

Thank you President Bush for not letting the automakers fail on your watch.

sorry that’s as good as it gets. If you had read my thread on President Obama’s successful and profitable bailout I mention the Bush loans in the very first post. Bush giving them 20 billion didn’t really fit the “illegal use of tarp money” narrative conservatives obediently parroted so they/you were blissfully unaware. In that thread you’ll see how the bush loans affected President Obama’s successful and profitable bailout. dont forget, avoiding and denying facts is a conservative trait


http://www.debatepolitics.com/gover...-book-successful-profitable-auto-bailout.html


Thank you President Bush for bailing out the financial sector.

See that was easy. Without the bailout the stimulus wouldn’t have ended the Great bush Recession. mmmmmm, one question thrilla, why did everybody need to be bailed out? Remember I already posted that “avoiding and denying facts is a conservative trait” so I’m just waiting for you to prove me right.
 
Vern said:
Oh thrilla, the first thing you need to understand, blind and ignorant partisan obedience is an attribute of the right. You conveniently assume if your side does it then so does everybody. anyhoo, watch this

Thank you President Bush for not letting the automakers fail on your watch.

sorry that’s as good as it gets. If you had read my thread on President Obama’s successful and profitable bailout I mention the Bush loans in the very first post. Bush giving them 20 billion didn’t really fit the “illegal use of tarp money” narrative conservatives obediently parroted so they/you were blissfully unaware. In that thread you’ll see how the bush loans affected President Obama’s successful and profitable bailout. dont forget, avoiding and denying facts is a conservative trait


http://www.debatepolitics.com/gover...-book-successful-profitable-auto-bailout.html


Thank you President Bush for bailing out the financial sector.

See that was easy. Without the bailout the stimulus wouldn’t have ended the Great bush Recession. mmmmmm, one question thrilla, why did everybody need to be bailed out? Remember I already posted that “avoiding and denying facts is a conservative trait” so I’m just waiting for you to prove me right.
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I won't answer any of your questions.
....not until you are able to differentiate between conservative and Libertarian, anyways





I'm amazed that you have actually said something somewhat positive about Bush...I know you had little choice, but it's nice to see you step away from your hyperpartisanship , if only for a single post.
 
Thrilla said:
he said both parties.... not just Democrats.


on that same token... what executive action did Bush put into play that has him causing the recession?
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Deregulation and lax oversight of financial firms, coupled with changing tax policies that yielded surpluses. Had the nation had those surpluses, massive government stimulus to replace private demand wouldn't have required borrowing.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Since Democrats and the President are crowing about 5.6% unemployment, just what spending do you want your government to do to reduce unemployment further and what time is the right time to address the debt and in-year deficits? Or are you like most liberals who believe that once a form of spending is established by government, no matter what the original circumstances, that spending must never die?
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We are already addressing the deficits by having GDP growth greater than deficit growth. Over time, the deficit as a p% of GDP shrinks to the point of irrelevancy.

As far as spending goes, the President outlined yesterday our crumbling infrastructure.
 
MTAtech said:
We are already addressing the deficits by having GDP growth greater than deficit growth. Over time, the deficit as a p% of GDP shrinks to the point of irrelevancy.

As far as spending goes, the President outlined yesterday our crumbling infrastructure.
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So you're like Canada's leading liberal whose mantra is "the deficit will take care of itself" while the Conservative government in Canada does the hard work of balancing the budget and setting the country on course to enjoy surpluses for years to come.
 
Thrilla said:
I won't answer any of your questions.
....not until you are able to differentiate between conservative and Libertarian, anyways
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thrilla, if you had something intelligent to say you wouldn’t use insults (real or imagined) as an excuse not to say it. Case in point, I didn’t whine at bravo when he called me an extremist. I simply pointed out how his “definition” was convenient to his narrative. for what its worth, calling you a con was not deliberate in nature.

I'm amazed that you have actually said something somewhat positive about Bush...I know you had little choice, but it's nice to see you step away from your hyperpartisanship , if only for a single post.
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mmmmm, thats odd, conservatives also project their blind and ignorant partisan obedience onto others. Anyhoo, I post facts. the sooner you understand that the sooner you can stop flailing at my posts. (mmmm, thats odd, conservatives also flail at my posts) And whats funny is having "little choice" is something that has never prevented a conservative from posting their extemist views (not that you're a conservative). and not for nothing, is a thank you really necessary when he's only trying to fix the damage he caused?
 
CanadaJohn said:
Since Democrats and the President are crowing about 5.6% unemployment, just what spending do you want your government to do to reduce unemployment further and what time is the right time to address the debt and in-year deficits? Or are you like most liberals who believe that once a form of spending is established by government, no matter what the original circumstances, that spending must never die?
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look, another conservative "discovers" or "rediscovers" stimulus spending reduces unemployment. What did that take? 6 years. And fyi, the deficit is below the 40 year average. Pretty good considering President Obama was handed the record breaking Bush Deficits
 
Vern said:
er uh OS, deficits went up under Bush because he increased spending and cut taxes at the beginning of his term. At the end of his term, deficits went up more because he destroyed the economy which destroyed revenues and increased costs. President Obama was handed trillion dollar deficits. Please put them in the proper context

When Bush proposed his FY 2009 budget, we didn’t know we were in a recession. he proposed 3.1 trillion dollar budget (we’ll let it slide for now that it was really a 3.2 trillion budget because of the games Bush played with funding the war). Estimated revenues were 2.8 trillion. When the CBO issued its budget outlook for FY 2009 in January, spending was revised up to 3.54 trillion and revenues revised down to 2.35 trilllion. Ouch, that’s a 1.2 trillion dollar budget deficit for Bush’s FY.

Actual spending came in at 3.52 trillion and revenue collapsed another 250 billion dollars. Yes, we collected 2.1 trillion. There is your 1.4 trillion dollar budget deficit for FY 2009. You want to subtract the 150 billion stimulus?. Feel free. But be sure to tack on the 40 billion in rebate checks Bush mailed out in 2001. Me, I don’t subtract the stimulus spending because it was necessary to end the Great Bush Recession.

As the deficit is below the 40 year average, I think President Obama's should get a little credit here. now if you want to keep it low, dont vote republican
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LOL, another baiting thread, Vern, please seek help for your delusion and Bush Derangement Syndrome as you ignore that Obama signed the 2009 budget thus taking responsibility for it including a promise to create shovel ready jobs to grow the revenue that would keep unemployment at 8%. Those shovels never arrived and Obama acknowledged that there is no such thing as shovel ready jobs which is why revenue never grew to the level Obama predicted.

Obama and Gruber knew that the liberal base would blame Bush and you make them look like prophets but you are good at diverting from reality. If you give all the 2009 deficits to Bush, there is still over 6 trillion in deficits in 6 years for Obama and we all know that Bush snuck back into the WH and created the economic policies that increased that debt. We also know that in the liberal world creating trillion dollar deficits and then cutting them in half is a win for liberals even though those deficits are still at record highs. We also know that Obama cares so much about the debt that he proposed in fiscal year 2015 a 3.9 trillion dollar budget that was rejected so now he is taking credit for a reduction in deficits that were generated by a rejection of the budget.

Obama Proposes $3.9 Trillion Budget


Nothing partisan about you, Vern. You are about as fair as any other other leftwing liberal who believes everything they are told. I know Gruber is smiling in reading your posts.
 
11Bravo said:
Exactly! The person who created this thread should be embarrassed for such remarks. It's like a brother and sister in a fight and the brother goes crying to mommy about a fight they both engaged in, wanting the sister to get punished first.
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He creates many embarrassing threads.

Its why his rhetoric is typically resigned to the Partisan section of the forum.

No one takes him seriously.

If its not giving Obama credit for the Stock market its congratulating Fannie and Freddie on their record " profits " ( even though they hold Trillions in debt
 
Thrilla said:
I'm amazed that you have actually said something somewhat positive about Bush...I know you had little choice, but it's nice to see you step away from your hyperpartisanship , if only for a single post.
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Hey thrilla, Fenton and Conservative are here. See how they post actual examples of "hyperpartisanship" or as I would say "blind and ignorant partisan obedience". Is your "hyperpartisanship" concerns "bipartisan" or are they posting intelligent and factual posts? no need to answer. if you want to have fun, try to explain to Con how the budget process works or to fenton that having "trillions in debt" doesnt mean what he wants it to mean. I did break him of his "trillions of subprime debt" narrative but trust me, it was not easy.
 
Vern said:
Hey thrilla, Fenton and Conservative are here. See how they post actual examples of "hyperpartisanship" or as I would say "blind and ignorant partisan obedience". Is your "hyperpartisanship" concerns "bipartisan" or are they posting intelligent and factual posts? no need to answer. if you want to have fun, try to explain to Con how the budget process works or to fenton that having "trillions in debt" doesnt mean what he wants it to mean. I did break him of his "trillions of subprime debt" narrative but trust me, it was not easy.
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Why don't you answer the question, Vern. Did Obama sign the 2009 budget accepting the numbers in it and adding to it. Was the Stimulus in that budget, the Afghanistan supplemental, The TARP repayment?

Answer the question, Vern, did Obama have trillion dollar deficits in 2010-2011-2012?

Answer the question, Vern, did Obama propose a 3.9 trillion dollar budget for fiscal year 2015?
 
MTAtech said:
Deregulation and lax oversight of financial firms, coupled with changing tax policies that yielded surpluses. Had the nation had those surpluses, massive government stimulus to replace private demand wouldn't have required borrowing.
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wow, Bush was very busy.. and very very powerful, it seems. :lol:

how did he pull all of this off without congress?

I've seen a few Keynesians make the case for deregulation being a major culprit, but that hasn't really played out as factual.... a more objective look , it seems, has the lack of regulation , pertaining to shadow banks, as more of a factor... it's not that they were deregulated, it was more a case of not being regulated the same way the "real" bank sector was in the first place.
( it's worthy to note that regulated banks are among the largest shadow banks)
so yeah, not so much deregulation as it was neglected regulation.

I probably wouldn't phrase it as "lax oversight"... I would probably phrase it as "lax foresight"... regulators weren't being lazy, they had a combination of not seeing the train wreck coming, and not having tools to stop it even if they did see it.

I haven't found any credible arguments that tax policy was a cause, or even a factor, of the recession... so i'm not sure where you got that from.

what surpluses?.... oh you are talking about the deficit.... yeah, umm.. ok.
we probably have vastly different outlooks pertaining to the deficit...I primarily see it as irrelevant.( and so do politicians, unless it can be used as a political tool against their opponents)
this nations obsession with the deficit is odd, that's for certain..... obsessing over debt, I can almost understand.. the deficit?.. not so much.
(I wish it were different, but after seeing 3 years of budget surpluses, totaling 400+ billion, add almost 300 billion to the national debt ...I became aware that it's all subject to political gaming.)
 
Vern said:
thrilla, if you had something intelligent to say you wouldn’t use insults (real or imagined) as an excuse not to say it. Case in point, I didn’t whine at bravo when he called me an extremist. I simply pointed out how his “definition” was convenient to his narrative. for what its worth, calling you a con was not deliberate in nature.




mmmmm, thats odd, conservatives also project their blind and ignorant partisan obedience onto others. Anyhoo, I post facts. the sooner you understand that the sooner you can stop flailing at my posts. (mmmm, thats odd, conservatives also flail at my posts) And whats funny is having "little choice" is something that has never prevented a conservative from posting their extemist views (not that you're a conservative). and not for nothing, is a thank you really necessary when he's only trying to fix the damage he caused?
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once again, i'll not answer anything you have to say until you can differentiate between Libertarian and conservative.

I'm utterly unconcerned with what you have to say about conservatives.. it's all bull****.. and it's ultimately irrelevant to any argument i may present..

in short, vacate the idiot bubble you have firmly placed yourself in and have adult conversations.. or don't... it's your choice.
 
Vern said:
Hey thrilla, Fenton and Conservative are here. See how they post actual examples of "hyperpartisanship" or as I would say "blind and ignorant partisan obedience". Is your "hyperpartisanship" concerns "bipartisan" or are they posting intelligent and factual posts? no need to answer. if you want to have fun, try to explain to Con how the budget process works or to fenton that having "trillions in debt" doesnt mean what he wants it to mean. I did break him of his "trillions of subprime debt" narrative but trust me, it was not easy.
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it's hilarious that you think you are somehow different :lamo
 
Thrilla said:
wow, Bush was very busy.. and very very powerful, it seems. :lol:

how did he pull all of this off without congress?

I've seen a few Keynesians make the case for deregulation being a major culprit, but that hasn't really played out as factual.... a more objective look , it seems, has the lack of regulation , pertaining to shadow banks, as more of a factor... it's not that they were deregulated, it was more a case of not being regulated the same way the "real" bank sector was in the first place.
( it's worthy to note that regulated banks are among the largest shadow banks)
so yeah, not so much deregulation as it was neglected regulation.

I probably wouldn't phrase it as "lax oversight"... I would probably phrase it as "lax foresight"... regulators weren't being lazy, they had a combination of not seeing the train wreck coming, and not having tools to stop it even if they did see it.

I haven't found any credible arguments that tax policy was a cause, or even a factor, of the recession... so i'm not sure where you got that from.

what surpluses?.... oh you are talking about the deficit.... yeah, umm.. ok.
we probably have vastly different outlooks pertaining to the deficit...I primarily see it as irrelevant.( and so do politicians, unless it can be used as a political tool against their opponents)
this nations obsession with the deficit is odd, that's for certain..... obsessing over debt, I can almost understand.. the deficit?.. not so much.
(I wish it were different, but after seeing 3 years of budget surpluses, totaling 400+ billion, add almost 300 billion to the national debt ...I became aware that it's all subject to political gaming.)
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Vern believes Congress didn't exist at that time, it only exists now when it's Republican.

Oh yea, Vern also believes anyone who disagrees with him is Conservative.
 
Thrilla said:
once again, i'll not answer anything you have to say until you can differentiate between Libertarian and conservative.

I'm utterly unconcerned with what you have to say about conservatives.. it's all bull****.. and it's ultimately irrelevant to any argument i may present..

in short, vacate the idiot bubble you have firmly placed yourself in and have adult conversations.. or don't... it's your choice.
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I already told you calling you a conservative was not deliberate. Now if your latest "excuse" is because I point out the similarities between your "excuses" and con "excuses" tough patootie. And fyi, Fenton and Consevative haven't "insulted" you. Where's that concern for "hyperpartisanship"from them? which reminds me, I didnt break into tears when you called me a "hyperpartisan" I simply pointed out how you were wrong. its what adults do.

Thrilla said:
it's hilarious that you think you are somehow different :lamo
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I post facts. they whine, post falsehoods and deflect. One thing I’ll give them, those two don’t make childish excuses not to respond to a post. In fact, you cant shut them up. But notice how both of their posts have absolutely zero to do with the thread (in addition to the "magic facts" they post over and over). That’s what “derangement syndrome” looks like.
 
11Bravo said:
Vern believes Congress didn't exist at that time, it only exists now when it's Republican.

Oh yea, Vern also believes anyone who disagrees with him is Conservative.
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the latter bugs me more than anything.
I mean, the forum is rife with partisan bull****, he's not unique by any means... but folks who are either too stupid to understand different ideologies, or purposefully lie about them are of no use to me whatsoever... they deserve no attention beyond scorn and derision.
whether than a guy like Vern doing his evil conservative shtick.. or someone else doing their liberal/ marxist schtick.... they're useless to me, the lot of them
 
Vern said:
I already told you calling you a conservative was not deliberate. Now if your latest "excuse" is because I point out the similarities between your "excuses" and con "excuses" tough patootie. And fyi, Fenton and Consevative haven't "insulted" you. Where's that concern for "hyperpartisanship"from them? which reminds me, I didnt break into tears when you called me a "hyperpartisan" I simply pointed out how you were wrong. its what adults do.



I post facts. they whine, post falsehoods and deflect. One thing I’ll give them, those two don’t make childish excuses not to respond to a post. In fact, you cant shut them up. But notice how both of their posts have absolutely zero to do with the thread (in addition to the "magic facts" they post over and over). That’s what “derangement syndrome” looks like.
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you actually think i'm going to believe you don't do this deliberately???... how the **** do you accidentally type the idiocy you do??.. how do you REPEATEDLY accidentally do it?
goddamn dude, you're more dishonest than I initially believed. " oh, it wasn't deliberate that I called you conservative..repeatedly, even after being corrected.. in every response to you i've ever typed".
yeah...hold your breathe until i believe it... I promise it won't be long.:roll:


if you want to talk facts, do it... but that's not really what you want..
folks who want to debate the facts don't create bait thread after bait thread after bait thread.
 
Thrilla said:
the latter bugs me more than anything.
I mean, the forum is rife with partisan bull****, he's not unique by any means... but folks who are either too stupid to understand different ideologies, or purposefully lie about them are of no use to me whatsoever... they deserve no attention beyond scorn and derision.
whether than a guy like Vern doing his evil conservative shtick.. or someone else doing their liberal/ marxist schtick.... they're useless to me, the lot of them
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Couldn't agree more. Vern plays by the party, which means no matter what, Vern will vote Democrat for the rest of his life. No matter how horrible the candidate.
 
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