Would a moderate Republican be better than a conservative to beat Hillary?

[Phys251]

As I said 'among republican candidates' meaning that Hispanics support Trump in a greater percentage than any of the other Republican candidates.

Even if that's true, it won't matter in the general election, where Hispanics would flock to the Democratic party in droves.

 

[chromium]

Be wary of liberals telling us what we need to do to win (which oddly often entails looking just like them). We've already seen what happens when we try to compromise, the base stays home. Let's stop trying to pretend we're something we're not (Democrats) and put up a real choice and see what happens.

if that were true, i would give hillary the same advice, since she has never been anywhere near liberal, and neither has any democrat nominee i've seen

again, true liberals don't like either party and so are able to give dispassionate advice

a moderate republican who doesn't alienate all minorities definitely has a better chance, but i'm not sure those exist any more

the other major stumbling block is they absolutely refuse to address the growing problem of wealth inequality and like it or not, with wages stagnant since 2000 that will bite them in the ass more and more often. This is from someone who doesn't believe it's the president's responsibility to do so, but from a strategic point of view, if this continues it won't be long before a socialist like sanders does win

 

[X Factor]

if that were true, i would give hillary the same advice, since she has never been anywhere near liberal, and neither has any democrat nominee i've seen

again, true liberals don't like either party and so are able to give dispassionate advice

a moderate republican who doesn't alienate all minorities definitely has a better chance, but i'm not sure those exist any more

the other major stumbling block is they absolutely refuse to address the growing problem of wealth inequality and like it or not, with wages stagnant since 2000 that will bite them in the ass more and more often. This is from someone who doesn't believe it's the president's responsibility to do so, but from a strategic point of view, if this continues it won't be long before a socialist like sanders does win

Sorry, Chrom, we've tried the "moderate" Republican thing and, like I say, the base stays home. Don't worry though, due to a local election that has a greater immediate impact on my life, I will have no say in who the GOP candidate will (not like I would anyway) as I'll be voting in the Democrat primary.

 

[SocialD]

Even if that's true, it won't matter in the general election, where Hispanics would flock to the Democratic party in droves.

And that may very well be true but my point is that at least per a couple polls Trump has the best chance among the republicans to get some of the Hispanic vote.
What you had initially said kind of presented it like he was the anathema of Hispanics and that is why they would go democratic in droves as you mentioned.
We know Hispanics will go mostly dem, even after the 1986 amnesty deal Reagan signed they still voted mostly Dem. So it doesn't matter what Republicans do.
Which also means Hispanics are not the wild card.

 

[Phys251]

And that may very well be true but my point is that at least per a couple polls Trump has the best chance among the republicans to get some of the Hispanic vote.
What you had initially said kind of presented it like he was the anathema of Hispanics and that is why they would go democratic in droves as you mentioned.
We know Hispanics will go mostly dem, even after the 1986 amnesty deal Reagan signed they still voted mostly Dem. So it doesn't matter what Republicans do.
Which also means Hispanics are not the wild card.

Not true. IIRC a majority of Hispanic voters voted for W. Bush, but not nearly as great as that of the 2012 Obama reelection. And unless the Republicans choose to stop the anti-Hispanic rhetoric, it's only going to get worse for them.

Poll: Overwhelming majority of Latino voters oppose Trump | Fusion

 

[SocialD]

Not true. IIRC a majority of Hispanic voters voted for W. Bush, but not nearly as great as that of the 2012 Obama reelection. And unless the Republicans choose to stop the anti-Hispanic rhetoric, it's only going to get worse for them.

Poll: Overwhelming majority of Latino voters oppose Trump | Fusion

W. Bush got 40% of the Hispanic vote, not the majority.

 

[chromium]

Sorry, Chrom, we've tried the "moderate" Republican thing and, like I say, the base stays home. Don't worry though, due to a local election that has a greater immediate impact on my life, I will have no say in who the GOP candidate will (not like I would anyway) as I'll be voting in the Democrat primary.

yeah but my point is that as the economy continues going down the ****ter, and the social causes the party embraces too, the base is actually shrinking

the party needs to reinvent itself, and that's certainly unlikely to happen under trump

 

[Phys251]

W. Bush got 40% of the Hispanic vote, not the majority.

Oops, that's what I meant. But yeah, Romney didn't get anywhere near that amount. And Trump would be lucky to get 10% of them.

 

[Bucky]

Interventionism seems unrelated to party, to me...

I believe the difference is intent.

When Liberals intervene they view the US as a beacon of truth and do it in the name of altruism. They consider the US a country that must stop injustice and help the needy.

They believe it is our duty. That's why most liberals believe in the reinstitution of the military draft.

Conservatives intervene strictly on a matter of national and financial security.

 

[SocialD]

Oops, that's what I meant. But yeah, Romney didn't get anywhere near that amount. And Trump would be lucky to get 10% of them.

Romney got 27%, I think the lowest in the last 35 years was Dole with 21%.
Regardless Hispanics are only 19% of the electorate. 42% of the electorate identify as independents.
So 2 or 3 percent of the electorate ( the difference between Bush's 40% of Hispanic vote vs Dole's 21% (19% of 19%) probably isn't where I would spend a lot of my resources if it were me.

 

[X Factor]

yeah but my point is that as the economy continues going down the ****ter, and the social causes the party embraces too, the base is actually shrinking

the party needs to reinvent itself, and that's certainly unlikely to happen under trump

Oh, hey, you don't need to dissuade me from Trump. He'd be a nightmare.

 

[shrubnose]

Moderate Republican like Christie, or conservative like Cruz?

The GOP will not be able to put a far-right social conservative in the White House.

Wait and see.

But my guess is that's the kind of person that the old White men who rule the GOP will run.

And they'll find out again that the perfect is the enemy of the good.

:lol:

 

[Moderate Right]

The GOP will not be able to put a far-right social conservative in the White House.

Wait and see.

But my guess is that's the kind of person that the old White men who rule the GOP will run.

And they'll find out again that the perfect is the enemy of the good.

:lol:

I'm really, really afraid that all of the partisanship that has led to a totally disfunctional congress is about to spill over into the 2016 election, with a partisan left choice vs a partisan right choice and no moderates to be found anywhere.

 

[Oberon]

Romney got 27%, I think the lowest in the last 35 years was Dole with 21%.
Regardless Hispanics are only 19% of the electorate. 42% of the electorate identify as independents.
So 2 or 3 percent of the electorate ( the difference between Bush's 40% of Hispanic vote vs Dole's 21% (19% of 19%) probably isn't where I would spend a lot of my resources if it were me.

Yes. There are only five states where the hispanic vote is significant, and the split on issues with Democrats who are nostalgic for the 'good old day's when they had old school machine politics with large pools of captive minority districts they could abuse and take for granted. Hispanics and blacks both split off from the Prozac munching Burb Brat Democrats on Prop 8 in California, for instance.

 

[Oberon]

Actually per a poll about a week ago, among republican candidates Trump polls the best with Hispanics which is surprising but two separate polls have rated hi the best with Hispanics even over Cruz and Rubio.

that's because criminal illegal immigration hurts minorities the worst, both in jobs, pay, and bankrupting social services. These are all existential realities the brie and chardonnay types who dominate the DNC are completely oblivious to.

 

[SocialD]

Yes. There are only five states where the hispanic vote is significant, and the split on issues with Democrats who are nostalgic for the 'good old day's when they had old school machine politics with large pools of captive minority districts they could abuse and take for granted. Hispanics and blacks both split off from the Prozac munching Burb Brat Democrats on Prop 8 in California, for instance.

That is also a good point. New Mex, Calif, Texas, Ariz, Nevada. Already know how Cali will go and how Texas will go. NM will likely go dem, Ariz will likely go Rep, Nevada is the only state where its really a toss up. You could add a sixth with florida as they are 23% Hispanic. the state is also a toss up but the Cubans tend to vote republican a lot higher than other Hispanic groups.

 

[cpwill]

I actually think Trump stands one of the best chances to win the Presidency because he has appeal to some of the more conservative democrat base and black voters.

Doubtful a guy like Cruz will ever become President. Marco Rubio has an excellent shot because of inroads he has made with the Hispanic community.

I don't see any of the other candidates having any shot at winning the primary nom.

I will say of the lot, I detest Cruz the most, so far as to say that I just don't like him as a human being. The other guys like Huckabee and Santorum that I don't like are irrelevant. I'm on the fence on whether or not I'll vote for Hillary if she becomes the nom (likely) but that will change if Cruz somehow makes it past the primaries. The thought of him in the White House is sickening to me. Doubt that Independent and moderate voters will like him all that much either, especially once the general election is in full swing and people start really paying attention. The Primary season doesn't get nearly as much exposure to the general public who doesn't care too much or follow politics too much, but once the general comes around and people do start paying attention I think they'll be just as creeped out and annoyed with Cruz as I am. In fact, when I used to consider myself a conservative Republican not even two and a half years ago, Cruz was one of the primary reasons I took a good solid look at my political philosophy and shifted so far to the left as I did.

......putting aside whether or not Cruz is a decent person...

...how in the hell does someone else's personality mean you need to change your political philosophy?

I mean, I just read this as "I make political decisions based off of emotion, rather than reason".

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Moderate Republican like Christie, or conservative like Cruz?

Because the GOP is slowly becoming the party of old white men...and that's not a good way to win a national election in a gradually-browner-growing nation.

 

[jamesrage]

Moderate Republican like Christie, or conservative like Cruz?

Running a RINO I mean moderate like John McCain didn't work in 2008.Running a even bigger RINO I mean moderate in 2012 named Mitt Romney didn't work either. Some people define insanity as doing something over and over again and expecting a different result.So shouldn't logic dictate that maybe we should run a actual conservative?

 

[Moderate Right]

Running a RINO I mean moderate like John McCain didn't work in 2008.Running a even bigger RINO I mean moderate in 2012 named Mitt Romney didn't work either. Some people define insanity as doing something over and over again and expecting a different result.So shouldn't logic dictate that maybe we should run a actual conservative?

You really don't know what would have happened if we had a far right candidate in 2008 and 2012. They may have lost even worse. You know what they say about ass uming things.

 

[jamesrage]

You really don't know what would have happened if we had a far right candidate in 2008 and 2012. They may have lost even worse. You know what they say about ass uming things.

We do know that running RINOs didn't work. So the idea that republicans need to swing left in order to win elections is absurd. No one goes to polls and votes for republicans hoping that they give the democrats.Nor does anyone vote for democrats hoping that they give republicans what they want.

 

[akrunner88]

......putting aside whether or not Cruz is a decent person...

...how in the hell does someone else's personality mean you need to change your political philosophy?

I mean, I just read this as "I make political decisions based off of emotion, rather than reason".

He didn't change my political philosophy, he just caused me to examine it more. He was one of the primary politicians that caused me to examine it, but there were other factors that lead me to change my beliefs as well, including the fact that I was born and raised an atheist (mom is a conservative Republican atheist, dad is a conservative republican Christian). The Religious Right and their ideas stopped appealing to me, and they make up a large percentage of the Republican base.

 

[Peter King]

The real issue is whether or not a so called moderate stands an snowballs chance in hell of winning the primary cage fight? And I do not think that is possible, the republican party (when looking at the biggest presidential candidates in percentages) has moved so far to the right that I think they will have a real issue of getting enough of the independents to win the presidency.

 

[joG]

The real issue is whether or not a so called moderate stands an snowballs chance in hell of winning the primary cage fight? And I do not think that is possible, the republican party (when looking at the biggest presidential candidates in percentages) has moved so far to the right that I think they will have a real issue of getting enough of the independents to win the presidency.

I would think that a Moderate could could win on either side of the aisle, if the candidate were experienced enough, untainted and charismatic.

 

[joG]

Moderate Republican like Christie, or conservative like Cruz?

They have other drawbacks.