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When the Republicans get back to normal, Trump and Trumpery will pass

Have Father Coughlan, Berry Goldwater etc gone away, or underground? Trumpfism by name will pass after a while, as MAGA Cult will survive in some form, with Leaders like MTG, Matt Gaetz etc. waiting for a figurehead to rise to leadership. The worse of Republicanism will survive, it may form a new party, it may continue in the GQP, but it'll be back. It is up to the lovers of the democratic system to keep it down, but it ain't going away. 😳 :rolleyes:
Of course it won't go away, it has been with us since the creation of the nation, but Trumpism is something else. Not the only publication I have read that has been optimistic about things getting "back to normal" after Trump. Doesn't mean the worst of the worst won't still be hanging around, but without a leader like Trump......................... maybe they can get back to the Republican party of Reagan.
 
I tend to agree that the loyalty that Trump gets his support from is a bit weird.
Republicans find themselves in a bit of a pickle with how loyal those Trump voters are, conservatives are left with little choice but to follow because the other side doesn't align at all.

Centrists/Independents are now more important than ever, for both parties, and yet we are lambasted by both sides of the same crazy coins from both parties.

Eventually someone will come to the center and garner the support needed from those centrists that will take the vote.
Nikki Haley tried that and see what happened to her?
 
I'm not nearly that hyperbolic.
Except it's not hyperbolic. Trump now owns the freaking RNC...he is going to take ALL of their money for his legal defense. If every Republican loses their House or Senate race due to lack of funding, Trump honestly won't care.

Yeah, it's insanity that the Republican Party has allowed someone facing 91 felony indictments to completely take over and hold it hostage.
 
excellent opening post
However I disagree with the writer.
Most of us are likely to. However, I found it intriguing that a far right publication like Washington Examiner would dare print something like that.
 
The Trump Party [nee the Republican Party,] is now the normal, with or without Mr. Donald Trump. The surprisingly large percent of my fellow Americans who are happy with the present Trump Party are not going to suddenly evaporate absent Mr. Trump himself. Their willingness to vote for an authoritarian/dictatorial form of government is duly recorded. We've seen in recent years how the federal Trump Party Senators and Representatives have bowed to the power of the bloc of MAGA/evangelical voters in order to secure their seats. There's no reason whatever to assume that they, the elected representatives, will suddenly develop feck. Nor, for that matter, will the present Trump Party supporters suddenly decide to embrace democratic processes.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . informed.
 
This to me is one of the most troubling aspects of our current national crisis. Almost as troubling as Trump himself.

If the Democrats somehow hang onto the Senate in November, then they need to end the filibuster. To be honest, the Democrats should have done this in 2021, when they still controlled the House.

We cannot continue to allow Trump and the MAGA Republican Party to hold our country hostage. We have to pass real election reform measures that will protect our democracy going forward.

Schumer should not even care how Republicans feel about ending the filibuster. Because if the Republicans ever get control of the Senate and White House again, they will end it.
The even bigger picture that few see, is that Trumps political tactics, the election denialism, the appeal to faux populism, the anti-intellectualism, the bullying, the conspiracy narratives, the performative politics over real politics, and use of social media to bypass traditional media, all of which undermine our democracy are being copied down ballot, successfully in the GOP, and if they are winning elections, Democrats are likely to copy them too. Anyone can be a mini-Huey Long now and create their own little fiefdoms in their own local races using the same tactics as Trump.
 
“There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain.”
 
Certainly not the worst opinion piece I've ever read, but it did come off as a combination of wishful thinking and overlooking what Trump actually accomplished.

It should be well known by now I am no Trump supporter, not a member of nor have an interest in being a supporter of Republicans, and generally speaking consider this subject a terrible collision of Trump Derangement Syndrome running right up against Trump Devotion Syndrome.

The harsh truth of the matter is an arrogant, narcissistic, misogynistic, military service avoiding, thrice married, wealthy New York Democrat found a way to not just completely displace the long existing establishment of the Republican Party, but also entirely take it over implanting his own establishment and turning the entire party into his own personally directed slush fund. Oh, and lest we forget has managed a way to avoid much legally speaking all the way up to today and it happens to include the Republican Party picking up at least some of that legal tab.

It really is extraordinary, and it makes the comparison (by the OP article) of Corbyn's rise in support of Labour and subsequent exit hardly worthy of mentioning.

The ultimate question is what will the Republican Party look like 8 or 16 years from now?

The obvious answer, danced around by the OP article, is any change will take someone (or some group) who can capitalize on, or remove, the establishment Trump has firmly put in place. It seems today like it is all about Trump but I doubt it ends with him given the sheer number of, and financial support from, the number of people still lining up to fund that party.

Money, power, influence, and frankly... ability... tends to move these things, that is sure what happened with Trump's takeover of the party. Note, this has nothing to do with political ideals really. Just who can claim ability to do something about them.

The old GOP, since about the time of Nixon's southern strategy, was a devil's bargain between plutocrats and racists. The plutocrats provided the money, the racists provided the votes.

Donald Trump took over by just having the racists kick the plutocrats to the curb and making the party now openly racist. The plutocrats have mostly been outnumbered, except the ones who are truly racist and weren't just playing along for the tax cuts.
 
OK, I have to admit to being gobsmacked. The following opinion piece is from............................ the Washington Examiner. Typically a rightwing rag. But it's gotten to the point where even they finally "get it" about Trump. Or just one author's opinion?


Here are some striking passages:



Time to accuse the author of that above article, and me, of TDS. And let's have some whataboutisms while we are at it ;)
The republican party has become devoid of a political philosophy, conservatism in this case in order to follow a man with no political ideology or philosophy of his own. The 7-time party switcher has always adopted the political ideology of whatever party he belonged to at the time. But since he became a Republican for the third time in 2013, he managed to convert the GOP to no political philosophy, no conservative ideals or values, to mirror his own non-political beliefs. As long as the Republican Party follows Trump, the man, they have ceased being a political party as the GOP doesn’t stand for any political beliefs or ideology, they’re now just a one-man party. Totally devoted to the man, total loyalty to the man, not anything politically.

What happens after Trump? Usually there’s always someone in the wings waiting to take over. But Trump isn’t interested in having a replacement. He made no plans for what is to happen after he croaks, leaves, goes to prison or whatever. Will the GOP implode? Maybe. Today, they stand for nothing politically. It may take a decade to recover, to get back to real conservatism, to rediscover the ideals and values of conservatism. Then again, conservatism may become a political philosophy lost to history. It’s already lost within the Republican Party today.
 
Of course it won't go away, it has been with us since the creation of the nation, but Trumpism is something else. Not the only publication I have read that has been optimistic about things getting "back to normal" after Trump. Doesn't mean the worst of the worst won't still be hanging around, but without a leader like Trump......................... maybe they can get back to the Republican party of Reagan.
I don't think the Republican party will ever be the party of globalist elites again. The party of Bush is slowly slinking away.
 
L
The problem is the neverDrumpfers think that they will salvage the party after the Drumpf goes to prison or dies. They will waste a ge
 
Most of us are likely to. However, I found it intriguing that a far right publication like Washington Examiner would dare print something like that.
Indeed, that is positive.
 

When the Republicans get back to normal, Trump and Trumpery will pass​


I don't know which passing is worse...

..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... Getting Trump to pass, or

..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... Passing a kidney stone.

WW
 
Really? If Trump came out tomorrow and said he wanted to ban all AR-15s, you don't think most Republican voters would still stand with him? They most certainly would.

Your Covid example actually proves my point -- a lot of MAGA voters did not like it when Trump promoted and advocated for the Covid vaccine. However, Trump still easily won the 2024 Republican Presidential nomination, didn't he?
In the case of the vaccine - an 'issue' with virtually no prior roots in conservative or rightwing ideologies - many of his supporters did not turn around to agree with his position and even actively booed him on it (even if they eventually still supported him in general terms as nominee). How do you figure that proves the point that most of them would turn around to agree with him on other much more entrenched issues?

It's a non-starter in any case, because we're imagining a scenario in which Trump develops the spine to oppose some core value of his base, even though he himself has no solid values to motivate such a decision.

You're agreeing with me in this paragraph. You are basically saying that Republican voters no longer care about policy. That is true.
That's not what I'm saying. To grossly over-generalize, I don't think that they ever cared about policy as such, or principles. Politics is driven to a greater or lesser extent by the feelings, appearance and rhetoric around an issue, by a kind of narrative in other words. The narrative generally motivating conservative, evangelical and MAGA voters consists of imagining some kind of idealized aspects of society/s ranging from 40 to 4000 years ago, golden-age mythologizing of the bible, the 'founding fathers,' the post-war baby boom and so on. That's associated with tendencies or themes such as male chauvinism, white chauvinism, nationalism, hierarchy and authoritarianism. Is male chauvinism more common among conservatives because they are exposed to quasi-historic golden-age mythologies, or are they drawn to quasi-historic golden-age mythologies because they are more commonly chauvinistic? Probably a bit of both I'd guess, though I imagine the former (nurture) is more impactful than the latter.

The particular public-facing policies and principles of conservatism in turn need to reflect or appeal to or cynically exploit those deeper themes or tendencies, but it's not the policies themselves that really matter: So for example 'law and order' rhetoric in part appeals to tendencies towards hierarchy and white chauvinism, its associated policies used disproportionately against poor and marginalized groups... but that means that when rich white men get away with fraud, tax evasion or treason it's a case of hypocrisy or contradiction against the rhetoric, but still wholly consistent with the underlying tendencies behind that rhetoric. Similarly as I suggested earlier 'family values' or sexual puritanism rhetoric or policies appeal to tendencies towards male chauvinism, wanting to have men and women in their 'rightful' places... but while support for a *****-grabbing adulterer is obviously wildly contradictory to that rhetoric, it's broadly consistent with the underlying chauvinistic tendencies. Whether the 'golden age' in view is Solomon with his 700 concubines or a 1950s boss groping his secretary, Trump's misogynistic sexual behaviour isn't really out of place from the narratives behind conservative politics.

As many have noted with regards to his fairly open white chauvinist rhetoric, he didn't fundamentally change anything about the Republican base, he just made it more acceptable in certain circles to say the quiet parts out loud. I think that's pretty generally true across the board; he hasn't changed the real Republican values, he's just reflected and amplified the tendencies behind them.

The Republican Party has been headed towards authoritarianism for a long time, especially since the racist Tea Party movement started back in 2009. However, the Tea Party movement did not promote loyalty to one man. That is a new phenomenon that started with Trump.
Exactly (y) Authoritarianism always been there. Trump has obviously developed a strong cult of personality as the (partly crafted, partly natural) personification of many of those tendencies, but Trump himself isn't that special; he must have some kind of charisma, obviously, but nothing that could explain this cult of personality on its own, so my point is that (disagreeing with the article in the OP) those tendencies don't depend on Trump and (disagreeing with you) they couldn't be reversed by him even if he were inclined to try. At most he might exploit and direct them in some vaguely tangential fashion; but if he really and clearly went against them, his supporters would turn on him almost as readily as he turns on anyone who stands in his way.
 
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In the case of the vaccine - an 'issue' with virtually no prior roots in conservative or rightwing ideologies - many of his supporters did not turn around to agree with his position and even actively booed him on it (even if they eventually still supported him in general terms as nominee). How do you figure that proves the point that most of them would turn around to agree with him on other much more entrenched issues?

It's a non-starter in any case, because we're imagining a scenario in which Trump develops the spine to oppose some core value of his base, even though he himself has no solid values to motivate such a decision.
Because the Covid vaccine was one of the biggest MAGA issues of the past several years....and Trump still easily won the 2024 Republican nomination. Obviously, not many MAGA voters deserted him.

MAGA voters would not care if Trump changed any Republican positions on gun rights or abortion. They only care about the man, they don't care at all about the Republican Party or conservative principles anymore. I don't know why you think otherwise. The Republicans that do care about conservative principles have left the party!!

That's not what I'm saying. To grossly over-generalize, I don't think that they ever cared about policy as such, or principles. Politics is driven to a greater or lesser extent by the feelings, appearance and rhetoric around an issue, by a kind of narrative in other words. The narrative generally motivating conservative, evangelical and MAGA voters consists of imagining some kind of idealized aspects of society/s ranging from 40 to 4000 years ago, golden-age mythologizing of the bible, the 'founding fathers,' the post-war baby boom and so on.
So this contradicts what you wrote above. You said Republican voters do care about principles in the first paragraph above. Now you're saying that they don't.

The particular public-facing policies and principles of conservatism in turn need to reflect or appeal to or cynically exploit those deeper themes or tendencies, but it's not the policies themselves that really matter: So for example 'law and order' rhetoric in part appeals to tendencies towards hierarchy and white chauvinism, its associated policies used disproportionately against poor and marginalized groups... but that means that when rich white men get away with fraud, tax evasion or treason it's a case of hypocrisy or contradiction against the rhetoric, but still wholly consistent with the underlying tendencies behind that rhetoric. Similarly as I suggested earlier 'family values' or sexual puritanism rhetoric or policies appeal to tendencies towards male chauvinism, wanting to have men and women in their 'rightful' places... but while support for a *****-grabbing adulterer is obviously wildly contradictory to that rhetoric, it's broadly consistent with the underlying chauvinistic tendencies. Whether the 'golden age' in view is Solomon with his 700 concubines or a 1950s boss groping his secretary, Trump's misogynistic sexual behaviour isn't really out of place from the narratives behind conservative politics
Again, all of this contradicts what you wrote in the first paragraph.

Exactly (y) Authoritarianism always been there. Trump has obviously developed a strong cult of personality as the (partly crafted, partly natural) personification of many of those tendencies, but Trump himself isn't that special; he must have some kind of charisma, obviously, but nothing that could explain this cult of personality on its own, so my point is that (disagreeing with the article in the OP) those tendencies don't depend on Trump and (disagreeing with you) they couldn't be reversed by him even if he were inclined to try. At most he might exploit and direct them in some vaguely tangential fashion; but if he really and clearly went against them, his supporters would turn on him almost as readily as he turns on anyone who stands in his way.
I'm glad we're in agreement for the most part, but I disagree with the part in bold. Trump has a charisma that most Republican politicians lack, as vile as he is as a human being. A lot of the crazy shit that Trump has said over the past 8 years would not have worked nearly as well if Jeb Bush or some other zero charisma Republican politician had said them.

Yes, Republicans are susceptible to authoritarians, but it still requires an authoritarian with a certain charisma like Trump to pull it off effectively.
 
Because the Covid vaccine was one of the biggest MAGA issues of the past several years....
It really wasn't, not even close, not even for just the past several years: Even within the scope of Covid-response policies vaccination (even mandatory vaccination, which Trump did not advocate, only encouraged his supporters to step forward to get 'his' vaccine) was a conspiracy theory driven 'issue' eclipsed by the real and genuine inconvenience of physical lockdowns and mask mandates, and longstanding ideological opposition to government 'handouts' for poor and middle class people. Meanwhile even the whole range of Covid-response issues together have been matched if not exceeded in the MAGAsphere by each of the various bogeymen of Black Lives Mattering, 'CRT,' election denial, trans people and asylum seekers. Opposition to voluntary vaccination has been a tiny fraction of Trumpists' combined attention and anger.

and Trump still easily won the 2024 Republican nomination. Obviously, not many MAGA voters deserted him.
Did Nikki Haley contest the nomination on an anti-vaccine platform? Your argument doesn't even make logical sense unless you think that Trump was up against strong anti-vaxxer contenders who he managed to beat in spite of his occasional weak encouragement of voluntary vaccination.

So this contradicts what you wrote above. You said Republican voters do care about principles in the first paragraph above. Now you're saying that they don't.
I've made a pretty clear distinction between core values or underlying/narrative tendencies on the one hand (eg. male chauvinism or hierarchy) and the public-facing policies, rhetoric or principles on the other (eg. 'family values' or 'law and order'). If you don't understand that distinction, that's all on you; it's not a contradiction, quite the opposite it resolves the superficial contradiction of 'family values/law and order' support for a corrupt rapist.

To be fair it might not always be clear exactly what constitutes the rhetoric and what are the core values/tendencies on any given issue.
 
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