The "Gay Agenda"[W:504]

[CLAX1911]

Very sensible and interesting points wellwisher.

I think that, in the not-too-distant past, there was of course a need for gay people to call for more equality and fairer treatment. But things are very different now. I think that the current gay pride parades can lead to alienation and division.

I don't think you've ever been to one because you don't seem to be describing the experiences I've had.

It is okay for those who wish to be different and surrounded by like-minded people and be in a sort of constant angry opposition mindset. But for a regular guy who just happens to be gay, but regards it as private, and wants to just work hard and live a normal life, it is very problematic.

then I would suggest this regular guy you're talking about has never been to a pride parade.

It's not about anger it's not about sex it's simply a way of showing that it's not something you have to be ashamed of.

Usually when someone like this, meets a conservative, the conservative is completely fine with their sexuality, since it is a private matter. But is it any wonder that conservatives become disturbed by the impression of gay people they are given by the gay pride parades?

I don't think anybody with your impression has ever been to a pride parade. I think you watch videos and look at pictures and read stories that are aggregated from all over the country or even the world in order to show it is some perverted Sodom and Gomorrah in the middle of the city once a year.

And that kind of slanted journalism is to make you think exactly the way you do.

This adds an additional barrier to people who just want to integrate and live a normal life.

people who make assumptions about gay people based on choreographed aggregated to images and articles they read online about pride parades? Yes I agree that sort of behavior causes a barrier for gay people.

don't assume the crap you see online and in videos is true.

The behaviour and lifestyle associated with the gay pride parades should not be conflated with homosexuality.

again what do Behavior are you talkin about? Have you ever been to a pride parade do you have any clue? I suggest you go to one, don't get upset when you see guys in bikinis just think about Young busty women wearing bikinis at Fourth of July parades.

And I really don't know what transgenderism or any of this gender neutral or pronoun stuff has to do with homosexuality either. It is a completely separate issue.

I don't either.

If people want to celebrate sexual promiscuity, multiple gender ideology, or any other non-traditional behaviour, that's fine, but please don't conflate it with homosexuality.

I would ask you not to conflate images and videos you see on line of pride parades with actual pride parades.

I was actually direct to it to buy a whole bunch of straight people I know one year. They all enjoyed it. There was music there was food there is performance and like strings of plastic beads being thrown out various little dimestore trinkets promoting businesses organizations clubs in churches.

And yes you did see quite a few guys very shapely guys wearing bikinis but again it's not anything different that I would see it at Mardi gras parade. It's just that the people in bikinis at the Mardi gras parade are women.

 

[JPUK]

CLAX1911 I found your response to be quite disingenuous. I understand that gay pride parades may have been of some benefit to you or maybe just something you enjoy. And I don't want to take that away from you. I simply ask that you consider what I and others have said, which seems totally reasoned and fair. Gay pride parades might have some unintended disadvantage to the gay people who choose not to be involved, and to gay people as a whole. There would be little benefit to me repeating everything I've said, but I do hope you'll give it some sincere thought.

 

[CLAX1911]

CLAX1911 I found your response to be quite disingenuous. I understand that gay pride parades may have been of some benefit to you or maybe just something you enjoy. And I don't want to take that away from you. I simply ask that you consider what I and others have said, which seems totally reasoned and fair.

the only thing different about the pride parade from any other kind of parade is that it's celebrating gay people. So that's the only reason you would have to eject than that and not other ones.

it may seem reasonable to you but it's not objectively reasonable.

Gay pride parades might have some unintended disadvantage to the gay people who choose not to be involved, and to gay people as a whole.

again your solitary complaint is that they're gay people.

There would be little benefit to me repeating everything I've said, but I do hope you'll give it some sincere thought.

I've given it some thought and I know exactly what you're saying you're saying essentially normal behavior at a parade is wrong when gay people do it.

If that wasn't what you intended to say I would be happy to listen to an explanation.

 

[JPUK]

I've expressed my position as I have, and I'm satisfied with it. I think it's very clear and it is truly unfortunate that you wont consider it. no use going round in circles. I can't help it if you doubt my motives

 

[CLAX1911]

I've expressed my position as I have, and I'm satisfied with it.

It seems to me the message you were conveying was that you're not okay with homosexual people being gay if that was the message you were intending on conveying I guess good job.

I think it's very clear and it is truly unfortunate that you wont consider it.

consider what your misinterpretation of Gay pride parades? yeah I've considered it it's not an uncommon opinion it's actually one I used to hold until I actually attended one and saw what really happens there and realized all the pictures and videos that you watch on the internet are not an accurate representation.

I don't know why you can't consider that if you're expecting me to consider your opinion.

no use going round in circles. I can't help it if you doubt my motives

I'll save you some trouble there's no use posting on a forum at all if you can't discuss things with people who don't agree with you.

I don't know why you would expect everyone to consider your perspective when you refuse to consider anyone else's.

 

[JPUK]

I'm absolutely here for discussion. But that's not what you are doing. You are embellishing what I have said and making ridiculous assumptions and are clearly either angry or inappropriately reading tone into my posts.

Your arrogant assumptions about how little I know about this matter are untrue. But also completely irrelevant. My position is very clear, well explained in some detail, and you have said nothing credible to counter it. I really can't be bothered to get into a juvenile conversation about whether I am "okay with homosexual people being gay".

You really need to open your mind a little. Not everyone who disagrees with you is bigoted. This is classic regressive left and I have no time for it.

 

[CLAX1911]

I'm absolutely here for discussion.

but you're unwilling to accept a more experience perspective.

But that's not what you are doing.

all I'm doing is disagreeing with you and asking you to support your claims. or to give reasons why you think the way you do.

the only thing you've been able to do is reference some Behavior you refuse to quantify.

You are embellishing what I have said and making ridiculous assumptions and are clearly either angry or inappropriately reading tone into my posts.

I'm sorry it's frustrating when you won't support or explain your viewpoints. it's almost like you have nothing to support them.

Your arrogant assumptions about how little I know about this matter are untrue. But also completely irrelevant.

it's odd how your perspective seems to parrot the perspective of anybody else who makes uninformed assumptions.

you could support these things by explaining what you mean by the behavior that is so objectionable at these parades but the only behavior that I see is gay people being gay so what am I supposed to think.

I think deep down inside you object to it because it's celebrating homosexuality. the complaints you have about things that go on at the pride parade are things that go on at any other parade.

My position is very clear, well explained in some detail, and you have said nothing credible to counter it.

it's poorly explained and when I questioned you you became defensive.

That indicates that you know your positions are poorly explained.

I really can't be bothered to get into a juvenile conversation about whether I am "okay with homosexual people being gay".

well you do objected to the pride parade because they're gay so I know you're not okay with it.

You really need to open your mind a little. Not everyone who disagrees with you is bigoted.

I never said you were bigoted and I never even alluded to that. you need to open your mind a little and realize all the pictures you see on the family research council website aren't actually depicting what's really happening.

This is classic regressive left and I have no time for it.

it's funny you mention this because you're pulling a regressive left tactic right here. Saying everyone that challenges you are questions your views is a political enemy is a very common Behavior we see in the regressive left.

Besides I'm probably for the right-wing than you are.

 

[JPUK]

Ok you're definitely trolling.

 

[CLAX1911]

Ok you're definitely trolling.

You avoiding tough questions ridiculing me for it is not me trolling, sorry.

 

[JPUK]

You're saying I have a problem with people being gay and then in the next line saying you have never even alluded to me being bigoted. You're saying you're not making assumptions and then accusing me of getting my information from the family research council (whatever that is). And then, despite making all these claims about me, you tell me that you're to the right of me. I mean I can only assume you're trolling because it's all just a bit weird.

I, and others, have explained very well how gay pride parades are damaging to gay people. You can think it's wrong, you can think it's unfair, you can disagree, you can accuse me of all whatever you want. You're clearly not interested in a proper discussion.

And yes, I have been to one of these events. My friend's son was about 12 at the time and he was part of like a youth firefighters thing and they were doing a stall there (all the big business and public bodies do stalls now). It was during the daytime and there was lots of food and drink and fairground rides. But I was truly shocked by the amount of people wearing suggestive clothing, the sexual focus of it all, there were people on the stage making sexual jokes and comments. It seemed strange to try to make this a child friendly event. So, in addition to research, that's my personal experience (although I don't agree with you that a personal anecdote is any more valuable).

Yes, straight people have similarly sex-focussed occasions. Like Ibiza on a Saturday night. But they don't call it straight pride as if it is representative of all it is to be straight and something to be proud of.

 

[CLAX1911]

You're saying I have a problem with people being gay and then in the next line saying you have never even alluded to me being bigoted.

I can believe people hold prejudice out of ignorance rather than malice.

You're saying you're not making assumptions and then accusing me of getting my information from the family research council (whatever that is).

Sorry, but you admitted to getting information from the web, videos and pictures.

And then, despite making all these claims about me, you tell me that you're to the right of me.

Well I probably am.

I mean I can only assume you're trolling because it's all just a bit weird.

You shouldn't assume things. It isn't wired that a person thatleans more right than you may disagree with you about something.

I, and others, have explained very well how gay pride parades are damaging to gay people.

Well you talked about behavior, and I asked what behavior and you didn't explain so I can only guess at what you mean.

You can think it's wrong, you can think it's unfair, you can disagree, you can accuse me of all whatever you want. You're clearly not interested in a proper discussion.

I'm not interested because you refuse to discuss? That doesn't make much sense.

And yes, I have been to one of these events. My friend's son was about 12 at the time and he was part of like a youth firefighters thing and they were doing a stall there (all the big business and public bodies do stalls now). It was during the daytime and there was lots of food and drink and fairground rides. But I was truly shocked by the amount of people wearing suggestive clothing, the sexual focus of it all, there were people on the stage making sexual jokes and comments.

I've seen all of that and more at the Renaissance festival, July 4 celebrations, Mardi gras and so forth. So why is it only objectionable at the pride parade?

It seemed strange to try to make this a child friendly event. So, in addition to research, that's my personal experience (although I don't agree with you that a personal anecdote is any more valuable).

A personal anacdote is more then you have presented as of yet.

You mentioned...bumbum bum behavior. When I pressed for an explanation you because defensive.

Yes, straight people have similarly sex-focussed occasions. Like Ibiza on a Saturday night. But they don't call it straight pride as if it is representative of all it is to be straight and something to be proud of.

I'm not understanding the "sex focused" part. Sexual innuendo and jokes as well as suggestive clothing seem to be present at numerous festivals.

 

[JPUK]

You're not reading what I am saying. Yes this behaviour happens at lots of events, I acknowledged this. No problem with it happening. Just don't call it gay pride, as if this sort of behaviour is in any way representative of what it means to be gay. Because it does nothing to reduce alienation of gay people, nor is it representative of gay people. Since you accepted yourself, there are straight people who also behave this way, and gay people who do not.

And I'm not sure why you say you are further to the right than me. I can't imagine how you might think that or what relevance it has to the conversation, which is literally only about gay pride parades. It's like me arguing for reproductive rights or gay marriage but declaring myself more right wing than my opponent because I am pro-gun or something, it doesn't add any credibility and it's completely irrelevant.

 

[CLAX1911]

You're not reading what I am saying. Yes this behaviour happens at lots of events, I acknowledged this. No problem with it happening. Just don't call it gay pride, as if this sort of behaviour is in any way representative of what it means to be gay.

It isn't meant to represent anything. Not any more than a bunch of drunk leprechauns are meant to represent St Patrick.

It is a parade and a festival meant to commemorate an event.

Because it does nothing to reduce alienation of gay people, nor is it representative of gay people.

I disagree, it does a lot to reduce alienation of gay people.

Since you accepted yourself, there are straight people who also behave this way, and gay people who do not.

I never thought the parade was meant to represent anything.

And I'm not sure why you say you are further to the right than me. I can't imagine how you might think that or what relevance it has to the conversation, which is literally only about gay pride parades.

You suggested my position was left wing regressive. If it wasn't relevant why did you bring it up? Further this isn't the only issue people vote on.

It's like me arguing for reproductive rights or gay marriage but declaring myself more right wing than my opponent because I am pro-gun or something, it doesn't add any credibility and it's completely irrelevant.

So maybe in the future you ought not bring it up.

 

[JPUK]

It isn't meant to represent anything. Not any more than a bunch of drunk leprechauns are meant to represent St Patrick.

It is a parade and a festival meant to commemorate an event.

Great, then don't call it gay pride, or LGBT pride etc.

I disagree, it does a lot to reduce alienation of gay people. I never thought the parade was meant to represent anything.

Can you explain how portraying gay people in the way that gay pride does, reduces alienation of gay people?

You suggested my position was left wing regressive. If it wasn't relevant why did you bring it up? Further this isn't the only issue people vote on.

Yes, I suggested your position, and indeed your way of arguing, was left wing regressive. That is very different from saying "I am more right wing than you". Think about it.

 

[Wayne Jr]

Holy thread-necro, Batman!

 

[CLAX1911]

Great, then don't call it gay pride, or LGBT pride etc.

That's what it's called.

Can you explain how portraying gay people in the way that gay pride does, reduces alienation of gay people?

how does it portray gay people?

Yes, I suggested your position, and indeed your way of arguing, was left wing regressive. That is very different from saying "I am more right wing than you". Think about it.

my position is that gay pride parades are celebration and they don't reflect or speak for or represent anybody, not any more than a st. Patrick's day parade represents Irish people.

it seems you've changed your position from there shouldn't be gay pride parades to you shouldn't call them gay pride parades.

 

[Hamish Howl]

I'm not at risk for AIDS. Gays are.

Just got linked to this. It's the dumbest thing I've seen all year. Take a bow.

 

[Lisa]

Holy thread-necro, Batman!

I love the idea of a thread necro.

BTW, What part of Ohio?

 

[calamity]

Just got linked to this. It's the dumbest thing I've seen all year. Take a bow.

There was context to that statement making it statistically accurate. Straight, non-intravenous drug using males in the US are at very low risk of contacting HIV, nearly negligible. Look it up if you don’t believe me.

 

[calamity]

Just got linked to this. It's the dumbest thing I've seen all year. Take a bow.

There was context to that statement making it statistically accurate. Straight, non-intravenous drug using males in the US are at very low risk of contacting HIV, nearly negligible. Look it up if you don’t believe me.

For context: There are four or five groups of sexually active adults who are at extremely low risk of contacting HIV.

Assuming non-intravenous drug abuse:

1. Women who do not have sex with men--0 risk

2. Men who do not have sex with men--nearly 0 risk

3. People who are monogamous--very low risk

4. Consistent condom users--reasonably low risk

5. Those not receiving unprotected anal sex--fairly low risk

Glad to be of service.

 

[Rich2018]

For context: There are four or five groups of sexually active adults who are at extremely low risk of contacting HIV.

Assuming non-intravenous drug abuse:

1. Women who do not have sex with men--0 risk

2. Men who do not have sex with men--nearly 0 risk

3. People who are monogamous--very low risk

4. Consistent condom users--reasonably low risk

5. Those not receiving unprotected anal sex--fairly low risk

Glad to be of service.

And the highest ?

 

[calamity]

And the highest ?

 

[Rich2018]

I wonder how heterosexual contact breaks down as to who was the infected party beforehand ?

 

[calamity]

I wonder how heterosexual contact breaks down as to who was the infected party beforehand ?

My guess is males. Males are the main carrier and transmitter from what I can see.

 

[Rich2018]

My guess is males. Males are the main carrier and transmitter from what I can see.

You're probably right.