The background check campaign (1 Viewer)

[LaMidRighter]

lets start with England and Australia, that is 2 out of three of the countries closest to us in a common heritage

The USSR, Cambodia, Vietnam, Germany, pretty much every country that is a member of the EU, Canada to a lesser extent, the South American countries, Mexico(now a country where anything larger than a .22 is a major felony)......................

 

[Jerry]

Either I don't understand what you mean or if I do I simply disagree. The constitution would be in tact and fine for law abiding people that don't lose their rights or mentally insane people we need to restrict. No gun registration is required. It's a simple test of a persons name, DOB and last four of a SSN against a database of prohibited people. No prohibition means no problem and the gun can be bought. It's not a check on a seller just a buyer.

We could apply the same concept to stolen guns. Put them in a database and insure the gun being transferred is not on that list.

If I'm a prohibited person and you sell a used gun to me without checking, then I later get caught with that gun and rat you out, how can anyone prove you sold the gun to me? How does anyone know I'm not just lying?

It's my word against yours, no evidence either way and mine is the weaker character to believe since I'm the prohibited person.

You could just deny it. You're innocent untill proven guilty and with no proof that you ever owned the gun in the first place you're off the hook.

 

[Jerry]

Why does every male pedophile want to get an erection? So if we stop erections we then can stop pedophiles?!?!?!?! :doh:roll::shock:

Say what you want about paedophiles but they always drive slow through the school zone.

 

[TurtleDude]

The USSR, Cambodia, Vietnam, Germany, pretty much every country that is a member of the EU, Canada to a lesser extent, the South American countries, Mexico(now a country where anything larger than a .22 is a major felony)......................

the argument in favor of registration is akin to saying

THERE IS ONLY A 10% chance you will get EBOLA by french kissing someone with Ebola

and french kissing probably has more benefits than registration……...

 

[LaMidRighter]

the argument in favor of registration is akin to saying

THERE IS ONLY A 10% chance you will get EBOLA by french kissing someone with Ebola

and french kissing probably has more benefits than registration……...

1% chance is too much to risk when rights are concerned. And let's face it, the scumbags want confiscation, most have said it at least once when they thought no one was paying attention.

 

[TurtleDude]

1% chance is too much to risk when rights are concerned. And let's face it, the scumbags want confiscation, most have said it at least once when they thought no one was paying attention.

Its such a pathetic argument-that unless we can prove registration leads to confiscation in EVERY Case we should support something that every scumbag who wants confiscation supports and has no value to us gun owners whatsoever

 

[Phil_Osophy]

If you didn't bother to check yes. If you checked and can show it came back clear you'd be exonerated for any wrong.

So you're basically trying to force people to pay the government money. Threatening them with jail if they don't purchase a service from the government?

 

[Jerry]

So you're basically trying to force people to pay the government money. Threatening them with jail if they don't purchase a service from the government?

The Supreme Court will call it a tax.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

The Supreme Court will call it a tax.

The supreme court once called black people property, but that doesn't make it so. You and I both know the supreme court can call the sky yellow, but we all know what's really up. Just more government imposing on our rights and less freedom so some people can have a false sense of security.

 

[Jerry]

The supreme court once called black people property, but that doesn't make it so. You and I both know the supreme court can call the sky yellow, but we all know what's really up. Just more government imposing on our rights and less freedom so some people can have a false sense of security.

Black people were property. That's what slavery IS. Anyway, the Supreme Court called the Obama'Care penalty a tax, and *poof* it is so. in the 1930s the government wanted to make owning a machinegun cost-prohibitive but they couldn't force people to pay fines for otherwise legal purchases, so they called it a tax and now you have to have a tax-stamp on your NFA paperwork.

The only way to stop any of this is to kill the people doing it, and no one is going to sacrifice their dental plan to protect your idea of marriage.

 

[Crimefree]

People who commit serious crime - I could give a rats back side about their rights.

You seem to be confusing citizens with incarcerated criminals and letting that control how citizens are treated.

 

[Crimefree]

If I'm a prohibited person and you sell a used gun to me without checking, then I later get caught with that gun and rat you out, how can anyone prove you sold the gun to me? How does anyone know I'm not just lying?

It's my word against yours, no evidence either way and mine is the weaker character to believe since I'm the prohibited person.

You could just deny it. You're innocent untill proven guilty and with no proof that you ever owned the gun in the first place you're off the hook.

I'm totally puzzled by this line of thinking. Is it the same as a person who sells a vehicle to a person who used it for bank robbery?

I simply cannot believe how firearm owners argue gun controls anti-social points. Is this fear driven or has somebody discovered an object makes/controls/influences/causes/ somebody do something therefore guilt is shared.

We need to think what we are arguing for.

 

[Jerry]

I'm totally puzzled by this line of thinking.

It's very simple: The only way to enforce any kind of background check system is to have 100% registration. Without registration you don't know who sold what to who, so even if you catch a prohibited person with a gun, you have no idea where the gun came from, no way to prosecute anyone beyond the prohibited person.

Is it the same as a person who sells a vehicle to a person who used it for bank robbery?

Not in the slightest.

I simply cannot believe how firearm owners argue gun controls anti-social points. Is this fear driven or has somebody discovered an object makes/controls/influences/causes/ somebody do something therefore guilt is shared.

We need to think what we are arguing for.

I know exactly what I'm arguing for. Thing is, "we" don't have a unified voice because "we" are not a specialty group. "We" are a broad cross-section of every demographic in the country, and therefore have varying views on the same topic.

Banning items to stop behavior is trying to apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. That never works.

 

[Crimefree]

You did not show the step of REGISTRATION in those anecdotal cases. And the claim is that REGISTRATION leads to CONFISCATION.

In order for your statistics to have any impact or significance we must see BOTH sides of the equation.

1 - the number of guns that were registered
2- the number of those guns that were confiscated

Registration laws are easy to find and in each case those laws were used as a list of where to search.

Government are not in the habit of releasing figures of their dirty deeds.
As a politician you should make it your duty to find out how many the US government has killed without due legal process or valid cause. What is this number? Do you deny the US government has committed these acts?

Your claims are specious, unreasonable and in noway refute recorded history.

 

[Crimefree]

what gaping evasion. why do gun banners see registration as such an important tool for their confiscatory schemes?

you don't seem to fathom the fact that even if ONE Case of registration leads to confiscation, that is grounds enough to oppose it since it does NOTHING for us

Registration is primarily a denial tool. It denies people a firearm based on the false ideology having a gun will causes people to behave differently.

This is obviously idiotic and based on fear but nobody ever claimed supporters of gun control were smart.

Every single genocide is based on the propaganda of hatred and fear. Gun control uses the most successful and powerful emotions in no different a way to the maniacs who killed so many to get their way.

 

[haymarket]

what gaping evasion. why do gun banners see registration as such an important tool for their confiscatory schemes?

you don't seem to fathom the fact that even if ONE Case of registration leads to confiscation, that is grounds enough to oppose it since it does NOTHING for us

Until you present the numerator and the denominator regarding the registration and confiscation claim - you are not dealing with a presentation of an honest issue.

 

[haymarket]

lets start with England and Australia, that is 2 out of three of the countries closest to us in a common heritage

And Canada is about as close to us geographically and culturally as any nation can get. But fine - start where you want as long as you end up with the complete picture.

 

[haymarket]

Registration laws are easy to find and in each case those laws were used as a list of where to search.

Government are not in the habit of releasing figures of their dirty deeds.
As a politician you should make it your duty to find out how many the US government has killed without due legal process or valid cause. What is this number? Do you deny the US government has committed these acts?

Your claims are specious, unreasonable and in noway refute recorded history.

So these are your sad excuses for failing to back up your claims. Amazing.

 

[Jerry]

And Canada is about as close to us geographically and culturally as any nation can get. But fine - start where you want as long as you end up with the complete picture.

The Minute Men and similar militia don't realize how they're helping you gun-banners just like the Red River Rebellion helped Canadian gun-banners.

I trust you won't be speaking ill about them when they, for example, post guard on the US/Mexico border, since they're on your side.

 

[haymarket]

The Minute Men and similar militia don't realize how they're helping you gun-banners just like the Red River Rebellion helped Canadian gun-banners.

I trust you won't be speaking ill about them when they, for example, post guard on the US/Mexico border, since they're on your side.

What qualfies a person to be a "GUN BANNER"?

 

[Jerry]

What qualfies a person to be a "GUN BANNER"?

If you support mandatory gun registration, then you are a gun banner. Even if you don't support any other gun-related legislation, support for that one thing alone makes you a gun banner.

If you support a 'universal background check', then you are a gun banner. Even if you don't support any other gun-related legislation, support for that one thing alone makes you a gun banner.

If you support any incarnation of an 'assault-weapon' ban, then you are a gun banner. Even if you don't support any other gun-related legislation, support for that one thing alone makes you a gun banner.

If you support a 'may-issue' licencing model, then you are a gun banner. Even if you don't support any other gun-related legislation, support for that one thing alone makes you a gun banner.

 

[haymarket]

If you support mandatory gun registration, then you are a gun banner.

Why would that position simply make you a FIREARMS REGISTRATIONIST?

Was Ronald reagan a gun banner since he supported and signed legislation into law at both the state and federal level?

 

[Jerry]

Was Ronald Reagan a gun banner since he supported and signed legislation into law at both the state and federal level?

Yes. Reagan was one of the worst enemies of the Constitution America has ever seen. The world is a better place with Reagan in the ground. Any idiot with a high-school education could have looked like an economy god following Carter. Reagan was a RINO, a fraud, a leftist pig.

Reagan's administration just shows you what you can get away with as long as you're putting money in The People's pockets. That's why I'm not worried about Obama; Obama's economy sucks. Fear the unifier, the well-spoken Statesman whom everyone seems to love. That person will be the monster of our generation.

 

[haymarket]

Yes. Reagan was one of the worst enemies of the Constitution America has ever seen. The world is a better place with Reagan in the ground.

Reagan was an icon of the modern conservative movement and perhaps the most conservative US PResident in the last eighty years. Placing that label upon him simply shows two things

1- the label is so overly broad as to be meaningless
2- the right wing in this nation is so marginalized by their own extremist views that such attacks are irrelevant to the lives of average Americans.

 

[Jerry]

Reagan was [is] an icon of the modern conservative movement and perhaps the most conservative US President in the last eighty years.

That's true, which goes even further to show what you can get away with as long as The People are fat and happy. Under Obama, The People are no where near as content as under Reagan, so I'm not worried about Obama.

Republican, Democrat....two cheeks of the same but.