The background check campaign

[Jerry]

Could you present the evidence that registration will lead to confiscation... not just in a case or two but as a general rule? Just how often does this happen?

The UK, Australia, Mexico, Koria, Vietnam, Pre-WW2 Germany, Russia....pretty much everywhere, everytime registration is required, leads to confiscation.

Every.

Single.

Time.

America is the only country on Earth where the reguler person can carry a handgun pretty much everywhere they go and for no particular reason. If there were any exeptions to that rule then you would pointing out countries where people can carry as long as they register, but there are no such countries.

Israel is the next closest to gun rights as America but even there your reguler person cannot carry, you have to be current IDF, honorably discharged IDF of an NCO or Comander+ rank, or own land/buisness and complete classes and annual training just to have a gun in your shop.

On the plus side, if you can carry a gun in Israel then you can carry any gun any way you want and there's no such thing as a gun-free zone or gun-buster sign. If you want to carry an M16 assult rifle onto school grounds when you pick up your kid, you can do that.

 

[TurtleDude]

The UK, Australia, Mexico, Koria, Vietnam, Pre-WW2 Germany, Russia....pretty much everywhere, everytime registration is required, leads to confiscation.

Every.

Single.

Time.

come on-you know if its not 100% it doesn't count. if only 90% of the time we are paranoid for opposing our always wise beneficent leaders knowing what guns we own

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The UK, Australia, Mexico, Koria, Vietnam, Pre-WW2 Germany, Russia....pretty much everywhere, everytime registration is required, leads to confiscation.

Every.

Single.

Time.

America is the only country on Earth where the reguler person can carry a handgun pretty much everywhere they go and for no particular reason. If there were any exeptions to that rule then you would pointing out countries where people can carry as long as they register, but there are no such countries.

Israel is the next closest to gun rights as America but even there your reguler person cannot carry, you have to be current IDF, honorably discharged IDF of an NCO or Comander+ rank, or own land/buisness and complete classes and annual training just to have a gun in your shop.

On the plus side, if you can carry a gun in Israel then you can carry any gun any way you want and there's no such thing as a gun-free zone or gun-buster sign. If you want to carry an M16 assult rifle onto school grounds when you pick up your kid, you can do that.

Czech Repblic and South Africa one can carry a concealed firearm too,

 

[Jerry]

Czech Repblic and South Africa one can carry a concealed firearm too,

Both are may-issue for persons wanting to carry for self defence where one has to demonstrate spicific threats against their life. Think of trying to get a carry permit in New York.

Those examples fall outside of my statment that in America one can carry for no particular reason.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

If you want loonies to not have guns, charge mental health "professionals" for failure to report loonies. That korean kid at Virginia Tech for example.

He was known to be loco but bought guns legally as his minder didnt report him. That guy should have been charged for aiding and abetting.

That's stupid because even if he did fail the background check, there are other ways to get guns. This argument is only valid if there is absolutely no way to get a gun except from an ffl and that just isn't true.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

Create a list of people who've lost their RTKBa. Put the list in a database. Sell the right to run a name against the list for $2 (Itd be profitable at $2). Name doesn't show then enjoy your new firearm.



Use it voluntarily, but if you sell a gun to a person on the list you go to jail.

No tacking of names ran against the list. No FFL required to run a name...$2 only

Create simple court procedure to clear your name if mistakenly added to the list.

Create the list from conviction records.

Basically, you're saying if you sell a gun to someone on the list, unknowingly, you go to jail?

 

[Jerry]

Basically, you're saying if you sell a gun to someone on the list, unknowingly, you go to jail?

Like giving a pack of cigarettes to kids.

Of course the only way to prove who the prohibited person bought the gun from is if that gun was registered to the previous owner.

And even if registration were required, criminals are spicificaly exempt from registering since that would be self incrimination.

Basicaly gun control can't work while we have a Constitution, and destroying the constitution is what gun control is all about.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

Like giving a pack of cigarettes to kids.

What if you don't k ow they're kids? There are 16 and 17 year olds that could pas for 20.

 

[Jerry]

What if you don't k ow they're kids? There are 16 and 17 year olds that could pas for 20.

That's why the state invented identification cards.

I'm 36 and I still get carded for alcohol. Same thing.

But imagin a law saying in order to sell or give a cigarette to anyone you had to go through a licensed dealer. Did you get your concealed-carry permit to put that pack of cigs in your pocket?

You brought over a 24pack of beer for the game? Everyone has to go to Safeway for a $35 backround check for every can they want or you're getting charged with a feloney. That's how retarded gun-control is.

I literaly just ordered a 'high-capacity' battery for my phone (3.8v 7100mAh)....imagin if your state tried to combat internet bullying and identity theft by passing legislatuon on "assult-phones" banning high capacity batteries.

 

[haymarket]

you ignore mounds of evidence and pretend what government lackeys in another country say is proof

we don't have to prove every case of registration has lead to confiscation

we merely have to show its a desired tool of gun confiscators and that has been proven beyond any doubt

That is ridiculous. YOu are in the same position as claiming that a marijuana joint can lead to heroin addiction because you can cite a case or two of it.

Present the complete data and let us really see if registration is indeed the step to confiscation that you claim it is as a general rule or is it an exception.

 

[haymarket]

The UK, Australia, Mexico, Koria, Vietnam, Pre-WW2 Germany, Russia....pretty much everywhere, everytime registration is required, leads to confiscation.

Every.

Single.

Time.

You state EVERY SINGLE TIME. Can you please present that data?

 

[haymarket]

come on-you know if its not 100% it doesn't count. if only 90% of the time we are paranoid for opposing our always wise beneficent leaders knowing what guns we own

Simply present the data so we can get some accurate number - even if it is 90% as you suggest.

 

[LaMidRighter]

Like giving a pack of cigarettes to kids.

Of course the only way to prove who the prohibited person bought the gun from is if that gun was registered to the previous owner.

And even if registration were required, criminals are spicificaly exempt from registering since that would be self incrimination.

Basicaly gun control can't work while we have a Constitution, and destroying the constitution is what gun control is all about.

It is their first step. Notice now the first is fair game? As well, they have been attacking the fourth and fifth handily since they have found resistance to the attacks on the second. After FDR gutted the ninth and tenth they figured the second would be easy, now they are speeding up the pace and going after the whole thing since the incremental approach isn't working on their desired timeline.

 

[TurtleDude]

Simply present the data so we can get some accurate number - even if it is 90% as you suggest.

doesn't matter

the risk of even 10% outweigh any benefits

 

[TurtleDude]

That is ridiculous. YOu are in the same position as claiming that a marijuana joint can lead to heroin addiction because you can cite a case or two of it.

Present the complete data and let us really see if registration is indeed the step to confiscation that you claim it is as a general rule or is it an exception.

there are dozens of cases and one thing you patently ignore

WHY DOES EVERY GROUP THAT WANTS GUN BANS SUPPORT REGISTRATION?

 

[LagerHead]

If it only happened just ONCE, that is reason enough to do everything in one's power to prevent registration since registration has absolutely no value to lawful gun owners and cannot be imposed on unlawful gun owners

* In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. This doesn't include the 30 million 'Uncle Joe' starved to death in the Ukraine.

* In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

* Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, leaving a populace unable to defend itself against the Gestapo and SS. Hundreds of thousands died as a result.

* China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

* Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

* Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. The total dead are said to be 2-3 million

* Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1-2 million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

* Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million at a bare minimum.

* Gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Both are may-issue for persons wanting to carry for self defence where one has to demonstrate spicific threats against their life. Think of trying to get a carry permit in New York.

Those examples fall outside of my statment that in America one can carry for no particular reason.

Czech is shall, at least it was a year ago, a gun forum I follow had a man who claimed to be a Czech and said his license to own a handgun permitted him to carry and that the carry license was easily accessible

 

[TurtleDude]

Czech is shall, at least it was a year ago, a gun forum I follow had a man who claimed to be a Czech and said his license to own a handgun permitted him to carry and that the carry license was easily accessible

Czech handguns are top choices for IPSC and USPSA competitions and Czech shooters are among the best in Europe meaning that there has to be somewhat free access to firearms. Same with France where Eric Grauffel has won 6 world IPSC championships in a row (5 open, one production)

I shoot the CZ Custom shop's CZ 75 Shadow in stock division and the Czechmate in the Open/unlimited division. TOp of the line guns from the Czech Republic.

 

[CalGun]

If you didn't bother to check yes. If you checked and can show it came back clear you'd be exonerated for any wrong.

Basically, you're saying if you sell a gun to someone on the list, unknowingly, you go to jail?

 

[haymarket]

doesn't matter

the risk of even 10% outweigh any benefits

But you have not even provided evidence for the low 10% figure.

Perhaps you can begin with Canada? You could present the number of weapons that were registered and then the number that were confiscated? That would be a start up that mountain.

 

[CalGun]

Either I don't understand what you mean or if I do I simply disagree. The constitution would be in tact and fine for law abiding people that don't lose their rights or mentally insane people we need to restrict. No gun registration is required. It's a simple test of a persons name, DOB and last four of a SSN against a database of prohibited people. No prohibition means no problem and the gun can be bought. It's not a check on a seller just a buyer.

We could apply the same concept to stolen guns. Put them in a database and insure the gun being transferred is not on that list.

Like giving a pack of cigarettes to kids.

Of course the only way to prove who the prohibited person bought the gun from is if that gun was registered to the previous owner.

And even if registration were required, criminals are spicificaly exempt from registering since that would be self incrimination.

Basicaly gun control can't work while we have a Constitution, and destroying the constitution is what gun control is all about.

 

[haymarket]

* In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. This doesn't include the 30 million 'Uncle Joe' starved to death in the Ukraine.

* In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

* Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, leaving a populace unable to defend itself against the Gestapo and SS. Hundreds of thousands died as a result.

* China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

* Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

* Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. The total dead are said to be 2-3 million

* Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1-2 million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

* Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million at a bare minimum.

* Gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

You did not show the step of REGISTRATION in those anecdotal cases. And the claim is that REGISTRATION leads to CONFISCATION.

In order for your statistics to have any impact or significance we must see BOTH sides of the equation.

1 - the number of guns that were registered
2- the number of those guns that were confiscated

 

[haymarket]

there are dozens of cases and one thing you patently ignore

WHY DOES EVERY GROUP THAT WANTS GUN BANS SUPPORT REGISTRATION?

dozens cases out of how many?

Why does every male pedophile want to get an erection? So if we stop erections we then can stop pedophiles?!?!?!?! :doh:roll::shock:

Do you see how stupid it sounds when you try to pretend that one thing is responsible for the other thing when it is just an incidental factor?

 

[TurtleDude]

dozens cases out of how many?

Why does every male pedophile want to get an erection? So if we stop erections we then can stop pedophiles?!?!?!?! :doh:roll::shock:

Do you see how stupid it sounds when you try to pretend that one thing is responsible for the other thing when it is just an incidental factor?

what gaping evasion. why do gun banners see registration as such an important tool for their confiscatory schemes?

you don't seem to fathom the fact that even if ONE Case of registration leads to confiscation, that is grounds enough to oppose it since it does NOTHING for us

 

[TurtleDude]

But you have not even provided evidence for the low 10% figure.

Perhaps you can begin with Canada? You could present the number of weapons that were registered and then the number that were confiscated? That would be a start up that mountain.

lets start with England and Australia, that is 2 out of three of the countries closest to us in a common heritage