Terror -- The Uk's New Christmas export

[Gardener]

Douglas Murray: Terror—The U.K.'s New Christmas Export - WSJ.com

"It's a story that is becoming as familiar as the traditional nativity: Ordinary young man goes to Britain, most likely to study, and comes out an Islamic extremist. If you had told Britons 20 years ago that this sort of thing was going to become routine in the 21st century, they would have laughed at you. But Britain is no longer the country it was."



I agree. The country that gave us Winston Churchill is now the terrorist hub of Europe. At some point, I am hoping politically correct denial will give way to educated realism, but for now, it is just the rest of the world that is suffering for Britain's myopia as they export their terrorism elsewhere.

 

[alexa]

Douglas Murray: Terror—The U.K.'s New Christmas Export - WSJ.com

"It's a story that is becoming as familiar as the traditional nativity: Ordinary young man goes to Britain, most likely to study, and comes out an Islamic extremist. If you had told Britons 20 years ago that this sort of thing was going to become routine in the 21st century, they would have laughed at you. But Britain is no longer the country it was."



I agree. The country that gave us Winston Churchill is now the terrorist hub of Europe. At some point, I am hoping politically correct denial will give way to educated realism, but for now, it is just the rest of the world that is suffering for Britain's myopia as they export their terrorism elsewhere.

It is known that University is one of the places where extremists will look for recruits. This person was recruited in the UK. Much research has been done on what will lead to someone being recruited to be a terrorist.

Things like

having a personality crises. Probably the most important one.
Being new to Islam and not having people around where they can discuss whether this person's understanding of Islam is correct.
Not feeling accepted by society, not feeling they belong
Feeling that their opportunities for social mobility may be blocked
Facing racism and discrimination.

This seems to be the profile of people who are likely to be befriended and groomed for radicalism and obviously University is an excellent place to find them.

This man may well fit the profile. He was not UK born and bred so your belief that this is all the fault of the UK is your own fantasy. 9/11 bombers were I believe groomed in Germany - again University I think.

What we need more to do is to look at the situations which give rise to people being vulnerable to exctremists and try and sort them out as best we can. In my experience that is the view you abhor.

 

[PeteEU]

Yes yes, a Rupert Murdoch owned American newspaper with far right tendencies.. go figure they would publish such biased material. Wonder why they dont do the same for the radical Christian fanatics in the US that go unchecked, or the so called Church of Scientology.. oh yea Rupert Murdoch has an agenda to hurt the UK no matter since the UK government wont play to his tune unlike the US politicians.

As for the basis on the article.. this radicalisation is happening all over the world, in churches, mosques, universities and other places. The only real difference is that in the UK's case it is not the universities or its factuality that are doing the actual brainwashing unlike certain so called education institutions in the US and Pakistan and Iran/Saudi Arabia.

As like Alexa says, it is such places radicals target new recruits and it has always been so. In the 1920s and 1930s it was the communists and now it is Islamic. But what is difference now as I mentioned and is so far NOT happening in the UK, is that there are universities in many places around the world that are supposed legit educational institutions but they are basically brainwashing their students based on one book or another. Add to that, the spread of radical religion in certain armed forces (the US armed forces namely) and you have a powder cake waiting to explode in the near future, with hundreds of thousands of brainwashed religious wackos that believe the world is flat, women are slaves and holy war against other religions.

Like it or not.. the good Bible or Koran are not and should not be used as primary education tools over common sense and actual facts and science... but that is exactly what is happening world wide.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

We've had a long tradition of incubating extremists and other volatile elements here.

It's an effort to make up for our relative lack of unstable anarchy, murderous political extremity and unswerving adherence to various unsavoury new masters as historically found on the European mainland and beyond.


And there's one factor differentiating the likes of Scientologists and the Islamic 'extremists' - the fact that barbarism is still mainstream Islamic cultural fare. Just take a look at the Islamic and Christian worlds. (But as I say, liberal-leftists still prefer the fantasy of a Waco in every district because Christian extremists are the only ones responsible for their actions, apparently.)

 

[Gardener]

We've had a long tradition of incubating extremists and other volatile elements here.

It's an effort to make up for our relative lack of unstable anarchy, murderous political extremity and unswerving adherence to various unsavoury new masters as historically found on the European mainland and beyond.

What has happened is that the Islamists have pulled the scam of the century on the British left. They have hoodwinked them into thinking that criticism of their totalitarian political agenda is an act of racism, and the British left have all but fallen all over themselves to march in lockstep, adopting the Islamist world perspective as their world perspective, adopting Islamist hatreds as their hatreds and allowing them to form seperate societies within the U.K. that are treated with such kid gloves as to cross the line that separates tolerance from aiding and abetting. The double talk offered by way of denying the fact Britain has become such an undeniable hotbed of Islamist terrorism is just like the rest of their doubkle talk in that they are trying to distract away from their responsibility for helping make it so.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Our exports are for life, not just for Christmas.

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Britain are fertile ground for terrorists. In fact, they are the greatest source of jihadis in this era.

 

[julietsm]

It is known that University is one of the places where extremists will look for recruits. This person was recruited in the UK. Much research has been done on what will lead to someone being recruited to be a terrorist.

Things like

having a personality crises. Probably the most important one.
Being new to Islam and not having people around where they can discuss whether this person's understanding of Islam is correct.
Not feeling accepted by society, not feeling they belong
Feeling that their opportunities for social mobility may be blocked
Facing racism and discrimination.

This seems to be the profile of people who are likely to be befriended and groomed for radicalism and obviously University is an excellent place to find them.

This man may well fit the profile. He was not UK born and bred so your belief that this is all the fault of the UK is your own fantasy. 9/11 bombers were I believe groomed in Germany - again University I think.

What we need more to do is to look at the situations which give rise to people being vulnerable to exctremists and try and sort them out as best we can. In my experience that is the view you abhor.

What a pantload!
Excuses excuses excuses.
I think the terrorist have rightly understood Islam.
I have read enough of the quran and hadith to be familiar with the exhortations to violence.

 

[julietsm]

We've had a long tradition of incubating extremists and other volatile elements here.

It's an effort to make up for our relative lack of unstable anarchy, murderous political extremity and unswerving adherence to various unsavoury new masters as historically found on the European mainland and beyond.


And there's one factor differentiating the likes of Scientologists and the Islamic 'extremists' - the fact that barbarism is still mainstream Islamic cultural fare. Just take a look at the Islamic and Christian worlds. (But as I say, liberal-leftists still prefer the fantasy of a Waco in every district because Christian extremists are the only ones responsible for their actions, apparently.)

Believe me, as a Christian I am well aware that what you say is entirely true.
We are blamed for everything, but Christians do not use violence save for the RARE FEW NUTCASES who use Christianity as a frame to hang their insanity upon.
Islamists are all poor, misusunderstood victims.

WHAT ABOUT ALL THE VICTIMS OF TERROR?
Apparently they are expendable, as one never hears a word about the millions upon millions who have died at the hands of jihadists.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

What a pantload!
Excuses excuses excuses.

Indeed. To hear the Liberal-Left talk you'd think their poor lickkle Muswims are one-time defenceless bunny rabbit creatures, not responsible for their actions, who are entirely unable to stop themselves being turned into monsters due a hostile, hateful Western environment.

I think the terrorist have rightly understood Islam.

All they need do is pick up and read the Koran for their one-stop shop hate guide.



It's not having a personality crisis (unless you count the fact they're warped little buggers), it's not using being different as an excuse, it's not wacism....

It's THEM! Islam and Muslims! Nobody else behaves so bestially on such a scale!

 

[alexa]

What a pantload!
Excuses excuses excuses.

Not excuses, just the research profile of a UK person who is likely to be of interest to extremists. Good proper research has been done on this. You may not like it but that is reality. Now the extremists who go about doing the recruiting would obviously be another question.

I think the terrorist have rightly understood Islam.
I have read enough of the quran and hadith to be familiar with the exhortations to violence.

I would suggest here that you are validating the research. You do not say where you are from but UK and indeed I think European research would suggest that the person who can be recruited by extremists is generally fairly new to Islam. This has come from researching the people who have been involved. You will find that the Stockholm bomber was not interested in Islam till he came to the UK. He fits that profile.

Regarding exhortations to violence you will find such things in the Torah, the Bible and the Koran. Such things can be used by people to justify their actions. However to single out the Koran would suggest a different agenda.

 

[mbig]

The Brilliant C.H. 3½ years ago:

MULTICULTURALISM
Londonistan Calling | Vanity Fair
The London neighborhood of the author's youth, Finsbury Park, is now one of the Breeding grounds for a New phenomenon: the British jihadist. How did a nation move from cricket and fish-and-chips to burkas and shoe-bombers in a single generation?

by Christopher Hitchens
June 2007

They say that the past is another country, but let me tell you that it's much more unsettling to find that the present has become another country, too. In my lost youth I lived in Finsbury Park, a shabby area of North London, roughly between the old Arsenal football ground and the Seven Sisters Road.
[..............]
[..............]

 

[Crosscheck]

It amazes me how someone can come into someone's home and defecate on their carpet. The article was very depressing as it reveals this to be similiar to cancer.
Cancer attacks the host by spreading and finally killing the host.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Not excuses, just the research profile of a UK person who is likely to be of interest to extremists.

They are excuses in sofar as the perpetrators blame all but themselves. The only other people liberals allow to be excused in such a manner are criminals. ('It's poverty wots to blame guv!')

However to single out the Koran would suggest a different agenda.

The agenda of facing cold hard truths regardless of victim mentalities.

1. The Koran is the ONLY book in which murder, rape and conquest are DIRECT orders of 'God',

2. Islamic extremists are by far and away the overwhelming religious fanatics to threaten us, their religion giving them the clearest possible orders.


What's so damn difficult to understand in that?!

 

[gunner]

What has happened is that the Islamists have pulled the scam of the century on the British left. They have hoodwinked them into thinking that criticism of their totalitarian political agenda is an act of racism, and the British left have all but fallen all over themselves to march in lockstep, adopting the Islamist world perspective as their world perspective, adopting Islamist hatreds as their hatreds and allowing them to form seperate societies within the U.K. that are treated with such kid gloves as to cross the line that separates tolerance from aiding and abetting. The double talk offered by way of denying the fact Britain has become such an undeniable hotbed of Islamist terrorism is just like the rest of their doubkle talk in that they are trying to distract away from their responsibility for helping make it so.

Once again can you identify 'who are these left' and, for good measure, add some context explaining their actual influence?

Paul

 

[Gardener]

Once again can you identify 'who are these left' and, for good measure, add some context explaining their actual influence?

Paul

THe influence is manifest in the fact your country is one of the terrorist hubs of the world.

As to who constitues the left, and as to the context, I would say that if you were to search the posting histories of, say, 50 Brits who have posted here over the years, you would find enough examples to write quite the treatise on the subject.

 

[PeteEU]

THe influence is manifest in the fact your country is one of the terrorist hubs of the world.

As to who constitues the left, and as to the context, I would say that if you were to search the posting histories of, say, 50 Brits who have posted here over the years, you would find enough examples to write quite the treatise on the subject.

And your buddies in the US are the main reason there is terrorists in the first place...

 

[Gardener]

And your buddies in the US are the main reason there is terrorists in the first place...

We created the Muslim Broterhood? I did not know that.

You are a veritable fountain of wisdom, Pete.

 

[gunner]

THe influence is manifest in the fact your country is one of the terrorist hubs of the world.

As to who constitues the left, and as to the context, I would say that if you were to search the posting histories of, say, 50 Brits who have posted here over the years, you would find enough examples to write quite the treatise on the subject.

So the left are the '50 Brits' who have frequented this board over the years. Thanks for putting it in context. Not bad out of a population of 62 million....:shock:

On a serious note, once again you have failed to deliver any context or underpinning evidence as to what you are actually suggesting.

Paul

 

[PeteEU]

We created the Muslim Broterhood? I did not know that.

You are a veritable fountain of wisdom, Pete.

And you are a master in putting words in peoples mouths. Where did I say that? No where.

I said, and I stand by it... the US policy around the world for the last 50 years as in part a lot to do with the emergence of Islamic terror. Backing dictators to killing innocent civilians to backing Israel and so on.

Since you mentioned the "Muslim Brotherhood".. I hope it was spelling mistake btw. It was founded in 1928 and was a non entity until the Egyptian ruling class went from getting support from the USSR to being backed by the US. Once peace was made with Israel by Sadat then the Muslim Brotherhood sprang on the scene in Egypt by assassinating Sadat. Since then the US backed Mubarak has hit down hard on the brotherhood, so it is only natural that the US becomes a main secondary target for the brotherhood (the first being the Egyptian government). I mean where was the US condemnation of the recent Egyptian elections? The US (and west) were very quite over that election.

Now I do not support the Muslim Brotherhood in any way and hate them frankly, but I do understand where many of the members get their motivation from and that is how the leaders (who are no different than our own politicians.. they crave power) gain and maintain power. By not forcing Murbark to having real democratic elections and by not forcing peace in Israel with the Palestinians, then the Muslim Brotherhood has plenty of ammunition for getting more and more followers. Add to that Iraq and now Afghanistan, then you have a never ending flow of funding and people.... it is a battle that is very hard to win unless you practice a mini genocide.

So yes, the US is very much to blame in part for the rise of terror around the world. Not saying they are the only ones to blame btw.. the UK and French have their own skeletons as well, as do the Russians and do the Arabs themselves and of course Israel.

 

[Red_Dave]

And there's one factor differentiating the likes of Scientologists and the Islamic 'extremists' - the fact that barbarism is still mainstream Islamic cultural fare. Just take a look at the Islamic and Christian worlds. (But as I say, liberal-leftists still prefer the fantasy of a Waco in every district because Christian extremists are the only ones responsible for their actions, apparently.)

Im really not sure where to begin here (Churchill being portrayed as a just and enlightend figure, 'Islamic culture' aparently being monolithic as if Somali or Saudi culture was the same as Turkish or Azeri culture etc.etc) but surely if this 'Barbarism' was so mainstream it would enjoy popular support? Why did the hardliners need to rig elections in Iran? Why do Islamists in Pakistan perform so badly at the polls?

 

[cpwill]

Yes yes, a Rupert Murdoch owned American newspaper with far right tendencies.. go figure they would publish such biased material. Wonder why they dont do the same for the radical Christian fanatics in the US that go unchecked, or the so called Church of Scientology.

how many times has a member of the church of scientology, radicalized in Britain, attempted to perform actions of mass-murder against innocent civilians?

ad sourcinem; demonstrating the accuracy of the original post.

Britain's college system has absolutely become a "hub" of international radicalization, most especially of the kinds of actors most capable of turning their newfound ideology into action. if you are a radicalized teenager with a passport a credit card and enough cash to help coordinate operations in a foriegn land, you are much more dangerous individual than a radicalized teenager who still has to go herd in the goatherd every evening.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Im really not sure where to begin here (Churchill being portrayed as a just and enlightend figure, 'Islamic culture' aparently being monolithic as if Somali or Saudi culture was the same as Turkish or Azeri culture etc.etc) but surely if this 'Barbarism' was so mainstream it would enjoy popular support? Why did the hardliners need to rig elections in Iran? Why do Islamists in Pakistan perform so badly at the polls?

There were no complaints about Churchill during the war were there? And the old man did indeed warn of radical Islam himself, as far back as 1898. So you actually started somewhere very relevant.

Islamic culture was intended by Muhamad to be a single doctrine. Yet his own Muslims, encouraged by him to be supremacist, had to be appeased even within Muhammad's own lifetime. So after the phony 73 sects of Islam were announced by him, others established themselves after his death. And they've been killing both infidels and each other ever since.

And it can also be said that deep inside the Muslim world there's no need to feel so bloodthirsty. After all, when all around you are fellow Muslims, all you need is Sharia Law to keep the masses oppressed and backward as they think normal, rather than a jihad mentality to keep new people freshly enslaved.




BANG ON MR. CHURCHILL:

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

Freeborn John: Winston Churchill on Islam

 

[Red_Dave]

There were no complaints about Churchill during the war were there? And the old man did indeed warn of radical Islam himself, as far back as 1898. So you actually started somewhere very relevant.

And it can also be said that deep inside the Muslim world there's no need to feel so bloodthirsty. After all, when all around you are fellow Muslims, all you need is Sharia Law to keep the masses oppressed and backward as they think normal, rather than a jihad mentality to keep new people freshly enslaved.




BANG ON MR. CHURCHILL:

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

Freeborn John: Winston Churchill on Islam

Churchill expressed similar animosity towards Jewish bankers, women who wanted the vote, and pesky Indians, Irishmen and Iranians that insisted on the right to run their own coutry. But an answer to my question would be nice if you expect me to go into greater detail.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

The question was answered; though Indians, Jewish bankers, women and Irishmen aren't fired by a religious ideology which tells them to subjugate people who aren't like them.

And when you consider recent surveys found millions of Muslims still wanting death for 'aspostasy', stoning, Sharia and all the other rubbish worldwide, I'd say that's pretty damn mainstream. And what's more, such nihalistic attitudes were ordained as religious duty by their warped 'prophet'!

http://www.examiner.com/american-po...uslims-support-death-for-anyone-leaving-islam



And I'll add this PS too -

THE 73 SECTS fraud: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...rrested-beating-up-his-15.html#post1059141593