Sanctions on Saudi Arabia? [W:95]

[SMTA]

Over the last few days, I have consistently stated on here that we should build up-scale refugee camps in Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and other countries in the ME and have the Saudi's and other pay for it and help us maintain them. That, in a way, would be sanctioning them by having them pay for the results of their actions or inactions. Beyond that, no. They are acting in conformity with their culture and religion. They do not commit genocide, or spread genocide. Until that happens, no. As for their ties to terrorists, we need to find a replacement for their oil, then we can reasonably take actions in that regard.

Reality and touchy feely feelings can run counter to each other, and in International Relations usually do.

That just drips of common sense, and forces the Saudis to actually help the US in a positive way.

 

[WCH]

We made them rich by giving them money for oil, but so did a lot of other countries. Time to put a stop to that in the wake of their complete inaction against problems in the region.

Iran would love that.

 

[Shadowless]

Over the last few days, I have consistently stated on here that we should build up-scale refugee camps in Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and other countries in the ME and have the Saudi's and other pay for it and help us maintain them. That, in a way, would be sanctioning them by having them pay for the results of their actions or inactions. Beyond that, no. They are acting in conformity with their culture and religion. They do not commit genocide, or spread genocide. Until that happens, no. As for their ties to terrorists, we need to find a replacement for their oil, then we can reasonably take actions in that regard.

Reality and touchy feely feelings can run counter to each other, and in International Relations usually do.

Acting in conformity with their Salafist/Wahabi culture spreads terrorism around the world, and encourages it directly by spreading this nonsense. I think that proves we need to act on sanctions immediately.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Did I say the solution to human rights abuses was to start an invasion/ground war? Point out to me where I said that.

No, you didn't say that. However, do you realize that blockades, embargoes, and sanctions are, according to international law, an act of war? So, even though you didn't specifically mention the ultimate end effect, you proposed starting us down that road. That is why the US sanctions against Russia, are actually against Russian banks, businesses and individual people, not the country - we would have declared war on Russia if we had.

 

[Shadowless]

Iran would love that.

We can't control what the enemies of our enemies will think. We have to act in our own interests. Saudi Arabia is Sunni, so they will have a lot more sway than if we asked Iran to do the same.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Acting in conformity with their Salafist/Wahabi culture spreads terrorism around the world, and encourages it directly by spreading this nonsense. I think that proves we need to act on sanctions immediately.

You want to stop the flow of oil from Saudi Arabia to the US? That's what would happen. You don't amputate a leg until you stop the blood flow to and from the leg, or you will kill the patient by making them bleed out.

Be realistic. I agree with you, just not in the timing, or on the haphazard process you propose.

 

[Shadowless]

No, you didn't say that. However, do you realize that blockades, embargoes, and sanctions are, according to international law, an act of war? So, even though you didn't specifically mention the ultimate end effect, you proposed starting us down that road. That is why the US sanctions against Russia, are actually against Russian banks, businesses and individual people, not the country - we would have declared war on Russia if we had.

Sanctions are a forceful act of diplomacy. I stand by calling for sanctions on Saudi Arabia, they have spread Wahabism and radical Islam indirectly/directly for decades. They also refuse to stop ISIS militarily, or take in refugees. They are a problem country, and we need to say we won't put up with it anymore.

 

[Beaudreaux]

That just drips of common sense, and forces the Saudis to actually help the US in a positive way.

Which is probably why it will never happen.

 

[Shadowless]

You want to stop the flow of oil from Saudi Arabia to the US? That's what would happen. You don't amputate a leg until you stop the blood flow to and from the leg, or you will kill the patient by making them bleed out.

Be realistic. I agree with you, just not in the timing, or on the haphazard process you propose.

We can buy oil from elsewhere, or even drill here upon a condition of switching to renewables ASAP. It can and should be done. The Saudi oil is not our cocaine, or at least we need to stop our addiction from them specifically.

 

[Helix]

Other. Pull out of the region, let the regional powers solve their own problems, and work instead on replacing our oil-dependent transportation energy model.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Sanctions are a forceful act of diplomacy. I stand by calling for sanctions on Saudi Arabia, they have spread Wahabism and radical Islam indirectly/directly for decades. They also refuse to stop ISIS militarily, or take in refugees. They are a problem country, and we need to say we won't put up with it anymore.

Well, you keep up the clarion call then, Don Quixote. The rest of us, although we may feel exactly like you do, are more apt to use an intelligent and thoughtful process to get there.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Other. Pull out of the region, let the regional powers solve their own problems, and work instead on replacing our oil-dependent transportation energy model.

I agree, except to prevent the collapse of our economy which would devastate the most vulnerable among us, I would reorder those three actions in the order of their application - 1, 2 and 3 would become 3, 1 then 2.

 

[Shadowless]

Well, you keep up the clarion call then, Don Quixote. The rest of us, although we may feel exactly like you do, are more apt to use an intelligent and thoughtful process to get there.

What process? I don't even hear the Saudi's MENTIONED in mainstream news coverage. How exactly would this "intelligent and thoughtful" process go?

 

[Beaudreaux]

We can buy oil from elsewhere, or even drill here upon a condition of switching to renewables ASAP. It can and should be done.

Agreed.

The Saudi oil is not our cocaine, or at least we need to stop our addiction from them specifically.

Now you're just using silly words. We are not addicted to them, it is the type of oil they have that is the cheapest to process and makes the best end product.

 

[Shadowless]

Agreed. Now you're just using silly words. We are not addicted to them, it is the type of oil they have that is the cheapest to process and makes the best end product.

We are addicted to oil. That's the reason most admit as to why we have ties with them at all. 15/19 hijackers were Saudi nationals. Bin Laden was a Saudi. You think we would cal them an ally if we weren't addicted to the oil?

 

[Beaudreaux]

What process? I don't even hear the Saudi's MENTIONED in mainstream news coverage. How exactly would this "intelligent and thoughtful" process go?

Well, I've mentioned a number of processes in this very thread, as has Helix, and few others... even you, amongst your diversions into hyperbole, like you did in post #59 and others. There's no single path. There's no single answer. It is a process that is dynamic in nature and is talked about on the news all the time - Canadian sand and shale oil, shale oil from the Dakotas in the US, fracking, pipelines instead of trains and trucks, and so on. Then there's the renewables - nuclear, wind, solar, geothermal, and others - but those are expensive to develop, harm the environment, and have miniscule output of BTU's or KwH per dollar invested than current fossil fuel production and technology just can't span that gulf, except for maybe fusion energy which is making progress at facilities like the CERN collider.

 

[Medusa]

I agree but your reasoning is too stupid.you should stop supporting S.arabia not because they cant beat ısıs because it was its biggest ally that helped gain power this group.you should stop it because saudi arabian kings are perverted fake muslims.I cant even call them human

 

[Shadowless]

Well, I've mentioned a number of processes in this very thread, as has Helix, and few others... even you, amongst your diversions into hyperbole, like you did in post #59 and others. There's no single path. There's no single answer. It is a process that is dynamic in nature and is talked about on the news all the time - Canadian sand and shale oil, shale oil from the Dakotas in the US, fracking, pipelines instead of trains and trucks, and so on. Then there's the renewables - nuclear, wind, solar, geothermal, and others - but those are expensive to develop, harm the environment, and have miniscule output of BTU's or KwH per dollar invested than current fossil fuel production and technology just can't span that gulf, except for maybe fusion energy which is making progress at facilities like the CERN collider.

I wasn't talking about the process of replacing oil with renewables, I was talking about cutting ties with the Saudi's UNLESS they cooperate in the region. If not, we can get oil elsewhere, so that shouldn't scare us. That's what I thought you were referring to.

 

[Beaudreaux]

We are addicted to oil. That's the reason most admit as to why we have ties with them at all.

We are not addicted to oil. Our entire economic structure is based on the low cost and already existing infrastructure that is based on fossil fuel energy. There is a major difference. The term "addicted to oil" is a Madison Avenue ad company way of making it sound more hideous and sinister. IT is basic economics, not an addiction. If Exxon could make more money by building solar panels, they would be putting them on every roof of every house they could find. If British Petroleum (BP) could make more money from building wind farms instead of oil rigs in the North Atlantic, there would be wind mills as far as the eye could see. But, they aren't, because they can't. IT is basic economics, not an addiction.

15/19 hijackers were Saudi nationals. Bin Laden was a Saudi.

Not relevant.

You think we would cal them an ally if we weren't addicted to the oil?

If we could change our energy model and our economic model, then no, and I have said so a number of times in this thread, agreeing with you on that point. It takes time though, to turn around both and entire economy and changing our entire energy model. Also, since I have agreed with you a number of times on this issue and other issues in principle, please stop being a buttocks about it or this conversation may end abruptly.

 

[Sherman123]

I believe that in order to defeat ISIS without spending enormous amounts of our tax money as well as putting our soldiers lives at risk, we need to make Saudi Arabia (and the rich gulf nations like Qatar and Dubai) fight their own battles. If they are truly an ally of the west, they need to clean up their own mess. They spend millions of dollars to build mosques in Europe (and around the world) that preach a form of Wahabism, a radical, extremely conservative sect of Suni Islam(Note, ISIS is also radical Suni). The Saudi's have the largest military in the middle east, partly because of the US tax payers.

It's time they stepped up to the plate with the refugee situation (so far, they have officially taken in zero. They claim they are educating the children of refugees, but no official number has been confirmed by sources outside the Saudi government), and it's beyond time they use the resources necessary to defeat ISIS. If they do not, I think the west along with Russia and China should place heavy economic sanctions on them, as well as call them out on the world stage. They have gotten a free pass for too long.

What do you say?

Sanction one of the only effective allies we have in the Middle East? Ridiculous. It shouldn't be surprising that in the vacuum of US involvement other actors have taken to backing their own chosen proxies (not ISIS) in Syria. We need to bring Saudi Arabia to heel, but sanctions are a foolish way of doing that.

 

[dani67]

Genocide them

 

[Paleocon]

I believe that in order to defeat ISIS without spending enormous amounts of our tax money as well as putting our soldiers lives at risk, we need to make Saudi Arabia (and the rich gulf nations like Qatar and Dubai) fight their own battles. If they are truly an ally of the west, they need to clean up their own mess. They spend millions of dollars to build mosques in Europe (and around the world) that preach a form of Wahabism, a radical, extremely conservative sect of Suni Islam(Note, ISIS is also radical Suni). The Saudi's have the largest military in the middle east, partly because of the US tax payers.

It's time they stepped up to the plate with the refugee situation (so far, they have officially taken in zero. They claim they are educating the children of refugees, but no official number has been confirmed by sources outside the Saudi government), and it's beyond time they use the resources necessary to defeat ISIS. If they do not, I think the west along with Russia and China should place heavy economic sanctions on them, as well as call them out on the world stage. They have gotten a free pass for too long.

What do you say?

Sanctioning Saudi Arabia would definitely be a bad idea.

 

[Medusa]

Could have some severe negative effects on the economy.

Their connection to terrorist organizations can be a deciding factor.

Their human rights violations? I could give a rat's ****ing ass.

That doesnt affect me, I dont care, and nor should you.

Overall, I'm not too hot on sanctioning saudi arabia.

You dont care about humans ?

 

[Shadowless]

Sanctioning Saudi Arabia would definitely be a bad idea.

Can you explain why you feel that way? How else do we force them to take care of their own mess?

 

[Shadowless]

Genocide them

Nope!