Ron Paul proposes saving $1T by scrapping five federal departments

[samsmart]

But why must the government do it? There are many instances in industry weights/measures are performed by independent companies. What would make them less accurate? What would make you trust the governement to perform these duties over an independent entity? Corruption?

Look into the history of the automotive industry. They had the technology for seat belts far earlier than when they were mandated to include them in cars. The reason why those car companies refused to include it as a safety feature was because the car companies refused to include any safety features, because they thought needing to include safety features implied that their cars were unsafe.

Which is the very definition of moronic.

 

[Dickieboy]

Look into the history of the automotive industry. They had the technology for seat belts far earlier than when they were mandated to include them in cars. The reason why those car companies refused to include it as a safety feature was because the car companies refused to include any safety features, because they thought needing to include safety features implied that their cars were unsafe.

I did. Seems you read a different source:

American car manufacturers Nash (in 1949) and Ford (in 1955) offered seat belts as options, while Swedish Saab first introduced seat belts as standard in 1958. After the Saab GT 750 was introduced at the New York motor show in 1958 with safety belts fitted as standard, the practice became commonplace.

Coincidently:
Subsequently in 1959 Congress passed legislation requiring all automobiles to comply with certain safety standards.

 

[Centinel]

What I am suggesting is that when Congress refuses to act WITHIN ITS CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITS there needs to be a means for the POTUS to tell them to go to Hell. Such a Presidential Order would initiate a SCOTUS fight, as we all know. At which point the SCOTUS would have to rule on whether or not those Departments have a Constitutional basis per Section I, Article 8 and the 10th Amendment. Should they rule improperly, then it would be time for the populace to burn Washington, DC to the ground and start all over circa 1775.

I like your style, kid.

 

[Tigger]

I like your style, kid.

Thank you very much, Centinel

 

[Cold Highway]

I've got to say, Paul always has good domestic plans. I just wish he could recognize the Constitutionality of many of our international efforts (i.e. military actions).

Where in the Constitution does it say the US armed forces are to be used as a global police force again?

 

[radcen]

Comparing eggs to gasoline is useless. The number or eggs in a carton are easily verifiable. Are we supposed to go to the gas station with a gallon jug to ensure the gallon on the meter is what we received?

This was EXACTLY my thought, and I started to say as much, but changed my mind.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Did you ever think you would see the day that the Republican Party would go so far off the deep end that one of their top tier primary candidates would propose that we do away with the National Park Service (Department of the Interior). National Parks are "America's Best Idea", they are the most American thing the government has ever done, and the Paultards evidently think we need to do away with them.

Vote Ron Paul and you can kiss this goodbye:

Sorry kids we would have gone to Yosemite or Yellowstone or Glacier National Park this year and spend some time visiting our national treasures, but the Republicans did away with the Park Service and sold them to developers, so now they are all being either logged, mined, or being developed into another Vale.

Thank you Ron Paul for saving us from the tyranny of hiking trails, campgrounds, untouched forests, and park rangers.

 

[lpast]

Did you ever think you would see the day that the Republican Party would go so far off the deep end that one of their top tier primary candidates would propose that we do away with the National Park Service (Department of the Interior). National Parks are "America's Best Idea", they are the most American thing the government has ever done, and the Paultards evidently think we need to do away with them.

Vote Ron Paul and you can kiss this goodbye:

Sorry kids we would have gone to Yosemite or Yellowstone or Glacier National Park this year and spend some time visiting our national treasures, but the Republicans did away with the Park Service and sold them to developers, so now they are all being either logged, mined, or being developed into another Vale.

Thank you Ron Paul for saving us from the tyranny of hiking trails, campgrounds, untouched forests, and park rangers.

Ron Paul is like the ingenius lunatic in the asylum...he has periods of lucidity where he overwhelms everyone with his insight and common sense...as quickly as that happens he flips out starts foaming at the mouth..babbling and has to get a double hit of thorazine and wrapped in a straight jacket.
Ron Paul has the same 5 to 10% support for his ideas as he had 20 yrs ago....

 

[Gina]

But why must the government do it? There are many instances in industry weights/measures are performed by independent companies. What would make them less accurate? What would make you trust the governement to perform these duties over an independent entity? Corruption?

For a couple reasons:

The State Laboratory Program provides the basis for ensuring traceability of state weights and measures standards to NIST. It also conducts basic, intermediate, and advanced training for metrologists from the states, industry, and other countries.

State legal metrology laboratories are custodians at the State level of measurement standards that serve as the basis for ensuring equity in the marketplace and as reference standards for calibration services for indigenous industry. As part of its program to encourage a high degree of technical and professional competence in such activities, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Office of Weights and Measures Division (OWM) has developed performance standards and formalized procedures for Recognition of State legal metrology laboratories on a voluntary basis. Certificates of Measurement Traceability are issued upon evaluation of the laboratory's ability to make reliable metrological measurements (principally mass, volume, length, and temperature).

And:

International Legal Metrology Program

Legal Metrology is the practice and process of applying regulatory structure and enforcement to metrology.
What We Do

The primary mission of the International Legal Metrology Program (ILMP) is to facilitate U.S. participation in the technical work of the International Organization of Legal Metrology (OIML), a treaty organization that develops voluntary standards (called Recommendations) intended to be used to harmonize national legislation among Member States in areas where regulated instruments and measurements are involved. The Group coordinates participation of U.S. manufacturers, users of weighing and measuring instruments, legal metrology officials and other U.S. stakeholders in the technical work of OIML by circulating draft Recommendations and other OIML publications for comment, and by leading U.S. delegations to OIML Technical Meetings. By authority of the U.S. State Department, the Group votes on OIML technical matters, including at the level of the International Committee of Legal Metrology (CIML), which is the technical and administrative oversight body of OIML. The Group also maintains liaisons with several national, regional, and international organizations, and actively participates in two Regional Legal Metrology Organizations (RLMOs), the Asia Pacific Legal Metrology Forum (APLMF) and the Inter-American Metrology System (SIM).

You sorely misunderstand how important uniform weights and measures are. If you knew anyone associated with metrology, as I do, you might realize if they get it wrong, especially in manufacturing, it could mean lives are lost. Their integrity and accuracy is of the utmost importance to them. Everything they do is traceable to them and then back to the NIST. Multi-billion dollar industries trust those standards. To suggest corruption, is an insult.

 

[VanceMack]

Did you ever think you would see the day that the Republican Party would go so far off the deep end that one of their top tier primary candidates would propose that we do away with the National Park Service (Department of the Interior). National Parks are "America's Best Idea", they are the most American thing the government has ever done, and the Paultards evidently think we need to do away with them.

Vote Ron Paul and you can kiss this goodbye:

Sorry kids we would have gone to Yosemite or Yellowstone or Glacier National Park this year and spend some time visiting our national treasures, but the Republicans did away with the Park Service and sold them to developers, so now they are all being either logged, mined, or being developed into another Vale.

Thank you Ron Paul for saving us from the tyranny of hiking trails, campgrounds, untouched forests, and park rangers.

What...your state doesnt have departments of Parks and Recreation? Your state doesnt have a Wildlife Division? Come on...I bet they do. And I just bet that if you stopped kneeling at the altar of the almighty fed, you would recognize...damn...your state and its citizens can ACTUALLY do a BETTER job than the fed with much less bureaucracy.

Drama...its not just for jr high school anymore...

 

[VanceMack]

That's from the linked article.

I see where it says that and I read the exec summary. The reality is that the Paul Plan simply couldnt be implemented in a year. It doesnt say realistically which sub depts will be transferred and switched. But at the very least Paul is talking about across the board cuts that are real and that no one else will touch. Congress has in recent months spent weeks on end only to announce cuts of millions...to the deficit...without coming near balancing the budget or paying down the debt.

People may think Paul is a lunatic...tell us that in 2018 when the debt is 22 trillion.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

What...your state doesnt have departments of Parks and Recreation? Your state doesnt have a Wildlife Division? Come on...I bet they do. And I just bet that if you stopped kneeling at the altar of the almighty fed, you would recognize...damn...your state and its citizens can ACTUALLY do a BETTER job than the fed with much less bureaucracy.

Drama...its not just for jr high school anymore...

There is not exactly a lot of bureaucracy with the National Park Service. Just the same, the problem with your argument is that many of our national treasures where we have national parks are not in states that have a sufficient tax base to support the management, maintenance and upkeep of those parks themselves. Having huge state parks works fine in a state like New York (example: Adirondack Park), because New York has a huge tax base to support large public lands managed by the state. However, the same is not true of Wyoming - home of Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks, or of Montana - home of Glacier National Park, or of many of the other rather sparsely populated states where most of our large national parks are located. States with low population densities have a hard time funding their schools in rural areas and providing basic infrastructure over large sparsely populated areas. They simply do not have the resources to draw upon to manage national parks that cover millions of acres.

Which kind of brings me to my point. Very hard core ideologues and libertarians treat their "government is bad" ideology as though it were a fundamentalist religious belief, and they ignore the practical implications of many of their ideas. This is a perfect example of that. The Department of the Interior is small potatoes in terms of federal government spending, so why eliminate it other than because of an ideological hatred of all things federal government.

 

[VanceMack]

There is not exactly a lot of bureaucracy with the National Park Service. Just the same, the problem with your argument is that many of our national treasures where we have national parks are not in states that have a sufficient tax base to support the management, maintenance and upkeep of those parks themselves. Having huge state parks works fine in a state like New York (example: Adirondack Park), because New York has a huge tax base to support large public lands managed by the state. However, the same is not true of Wyoming - home of Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks, or of Montana - home of Glacier National Park, or of many of the other rather sparsely populated states where most of our large national parks are located. States with low population densities have a hard time funding their schools in rural areas and providing basic infrastructure over large sparsely populated areas. They simply do not have the resources to draw upon to manage national parks that cover millions of acres.

Which kind of brings me to my point. Very hard core ideologues and libertarians treat their "government is bad" ideology as though it were a fundamentalist religious belief, and they ignore the practical implications of many of their ideas. This is a perfect example of that. The Department of the Interior is small potatoes in terms of federal government spending, so why eliminate it other than because of an ideological hatred of all things federal government.

The fed doesnt just pull money out of thin air. The fed taxes the hell out of the citizens of the states and chews through it. You say there isnt a lot of bureaucracy but I disagree...every state has personnel in their wildlife and parks department AS WELL AS federal employees for federal parks. Both are maintained. This continued belief that the fed is the almighty messiah that saves the country is a myth. The fed is bloated and inefficient. Im just amazed at how little faith people have in themselves and thier local and state political process. It is entirely contrary to the founding principles of the country and is entirely emblematic of the things that have caused this country to get so completely screwed up.

 

[Gina]

I see where it says that and I read the exec summary. The reality is that the Paul Plan simply couldnt be implemented in a year. It doesnt say realistically which sub depts will be transferred and switched. But at the very least Paul is talking about across the board cuts that are real and that no one else will touch. Congress has in recent months spent weeks on end only to announce cuts of millions...to the deficit...without coming near balancing the budget or paying down the debt.

People may think Paul is a lunatic...tell us that in 2018 when the debt is 22 trillion.

Vance, you are the most reasonable Paul supporter I've ever come across. You acknowledge there are practical realities to implementing political promises. The fact he doesn't say in, any detail, which services will be transferred, to which department and list those slated to be eliminated, gives me pause. I'm supposed to trust a politician to make only those cuts I agree with? When his overriding message is elimination? I believe that is just what he has in mind, eliminating those departments, period, since his core belief is that these departments are not constitutional in the first place.

Paul has a website. If he wanted to, he could go into great detail there. From Paul's site, in this matter:

Cuts $1 trillion in spending during the first year of Ron Paul’s presidency, eliminating five cabinet departments (Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and Education), abolishing the Transportation Security Administration and returning responsibility for security to private property owners, abolishing corporate subsidies, stopping foreign aid, ending foreign wars, and returning most other spending to 2006 levels.

I guess we'll call it a draw?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

The fed doesnt just pull money out of thin air. The fed taxes the hell out of the citizens of the states and chews through it. You say there isnt a lot of bureaucracy but I disagree...every state has personnel in their wildlife and parks department AS WELL AS federal employees for federal parks. Both are maintained. This continued belief that the fed is the almighty messiah that saves the country is a myth. The fed is bloated and inefficient. Im just amazed at how little faith people have in themselves and thier local and state political process. It is entirely contrary to the founding principles of the country and is entirely emblematic of the things that have caused this country to get so completely screwed up.

Everything the fed does is not bloated an inefficient. Just because defense spending is bloated and inefficient on the part of the fed, does not mean that the U.S. Geological Survey is bloated an inefficient. Moreover, yes, every state has a DNR, but not every state has the same resources at their disposal to devote to their DNR. Shocker!!!! Where our wildlands are, typically are not where our larger tax bases are. It takes taxpayers in major cities to support huge national parks like Glacier or Denali.

 

[VanceMack]

Vance, you are the most reasonable Paul supporter I've ever come across. You acknowledge there are practical realities to implementing political promises. The fact he doesn't say in, any detail, which services will be transferred, to which department and list those slated to be eliminated, gives me pause. I'm supposed to trust a politician to make only those cuts I agree with? When his overriding message is elimination? I believe that is just what he has in mind, eliminating those departments, period, since his core belief is that these departments are not constitutional in the first place.

Paul has a website. If he wanted to, he could go into great detail there. From Paul's site, in this matter:



I guess we'll call it a draw?

Im really not a Paul supporter. Im not a Tea Party supporter. Im not a 'real' Libertarian (even tho I am a registered Libertarian) because I DO believe in effective government...just at the state and local level. Im all for med and social spending...at the state and local level. Im all for parks and recreation...Im in the wilderness most weekends...going again this week. I value it...I treasure it. I pay for it.

What I like is that people like Paul (who I think is off his nut with regard to military and national isolationism) and the Tea Party stimulate real discussion on cuts. I saw a news report that said this 'supercommittee' which has about two weeks left has accomplished nothing...can agree on nothing..and at the last minute they will eek out a few billion in irrelevant savings and call it a triumph because instead of an annual deficit of 1.3 trillion we will only have an annual deficit of 1.217 trillion. I have two beautiful little granddaughters...it sickens me to know that their generation is going to get stuck paying for our stupidity. As long as we send the same wolves back to congress and pretend that they are different because one has a D and one has an R after their name, we are in a word...screwed. No...I take it back...our grandchildren are screwed. That sickens me.

Thats a long way to say that I appreciate your words and dialogue. I do TRY to be reasonable. Im not anti government. Im not anti spending. Heck...Im one of the first ones here long before it became fashionable to say that out of necessity we have to tax the wealthy (and yes...I think it would hit me a bit...Im OK with that). Im anti-waste and the fed has proven itself time and time again. Horse has to go before the cart. Cuts, then tax increases on a path to solvency.

 

[VanceMack]

Everything the fed does is not bloated an inefficient. Just because defense spending is bloated and inefficient on the part of the fed, does not mean that the U.S. Geological Survey is bloated an inefficient. Moreover, yes, every state has a DNR, but not every state has the same resources at their disposal to devote to their DNR. Shocker!!!! Where our wildlands are, typically are not where our larger tax bases are. It takes taxpayers in major cities to support huge national parks like Glacier or Denali.

Shocker...if people utilize those resources they will pay for them. States will protect their resources. It makes zero sense to send a block of cash to the fed only to turn around and generously 'gift' a portion back to the states.

 

[Dickieboy]

You sorely misunderstand how important uniform weights and measures are. If you knew anyone associated with metrology, as I do, you might realize if they get it wrong, especially in manufacturing, it could mean lives are lost. Their integrity and accuracy is of the utmost importance to them. Everything they do is traceable to them and then back to the NIST. Multi-billion dollar industries trust those standards. To suggest corruption, is an insult.

No, I understand your point we just disagree is all.

My corruption suggestion was directed as a potential if these functions were performed indepently and not at the current system.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Shocker...if people utilize those resources they will pay for them. States will protect their resources. It makes zero sense to send a block of cash to the fed only to turn around and generously 'gift' a portion back to the states.

What you don't seem to get is that just like schools in western Kansas require transfers of state taxpayer money from the wealthy suburbs of Kansas City (hundreds of miles away), Yellowstone requires transfers of federal money from more populated states. The state of Wyoming can hardly afford to provide basic infrastructure and a public education to its rural areas. The money is not there to manage millions of acres of public land on top of that.

People from all over the country (and world) visit our national parks. People from all over the country are cool with paying for them. Doing away with them is an extremist idea.

 

[Gina]

No, I understand your point we just disagree is all.

My corruption suggestion was directed as a potential if these functions were performed indepently and not at the current system.

Fair enough. No, corruption of for profit independents is not my main concern. Maintaining standards are. This is a function I believe is better of for not being part of free market competition. As I quoted, we also have an agreement, as a government, to maintain uniform standards world wide. That is a function of government as well.

 

[Gina]

Im really not a Paul supporter. Im not a Tea Party supporter. Im not a 'real' Libertarian (even tho I am a registered Libertarian) because I DO believe in effective government...just at the state and local level. Im all for med and social spending...at the state and local level. Im all for parks and recreation...Im in the wilderness most weekends...going again this week. I value it...I treasure it. I pay for it.

What I like is that people like Paul (who I think is off his nut with regard to military and national isolationism) and the Tea Party stimulate real discussion on cuts. I saw a news report that said this 'supercommittee' which has about two weeks left has accomplished nothing...can agree on nothing..and at the last minute they will eek out a few billion in irrelevant savings and call it a triumph because instead of an annual deficit of 1.3 trillion we will only have an annual deficit of 1.217 trillion. I have two beautiful little granddaughters...it sickens me to know that their generation is going to get stuck paying for our stupidity. As long as we send the same wolves back to congress and pretend that they are different because one has a D and one has an R after their name, we are in a word...screwed. No...I take it back...our grandchildren are screwed. That sickens me.

Thats a long way to say that I appreciate your words and dialogue. I do TRY to be reasonable. Im not anti government. Im not anti spending. Heck...Im one of the first ones here long before it became fashionable to say that out of necessity we have to tax the wealthy (and yes...I think it would hit me a bit...Im OK with that). Im anti-waste and the fed has proven itself time and time again. Horse has to go before the cart. Cuts, then tax increases on a path to solvency.

Thanks for clarifying where you stand Vance. I appreciate that. DP has so many posters, more than I'm used to in order to keep track of their stances. I mistook you for a Ron Paul supporter.

I agree with what you have written and find we are of the same mind in many areas. Thank you for the civil discussion and hopefully, the changes we need to right the country will come sooner rather than later.

 

[VanceMack]

What you don't seem to get is that just like schools in western Kansas require transfers of state taxpayer money from the wealthy suburbs of Kansas City (hundreds of miles away), Yellowstone requires transfers of federal money from more populated states. The state of Wyoming can hardly afford to provide basic infrastructure and a public education to its rural areas. The money is not there to manage millions of acres of public land on top of that.

People from all over the country (and world) visit our national parks. People from all over the country are cool with paying for them. Doing away with them is an extremist idea.

Other than the roads there is very little by way of management there, year round. We have one of fav camps we head up there every year. WOuld it cost the state more in taxes? Yes...as well as an increase in park costs. Thats how it is supposed to work. Yellowstone brings in a lot of tourism. Tourism pays the bills.

 

[Whoppletraps]

I'm good with this plan, we need bigger spending cuts.

 

[a351]

Did you ever think you would see the day that the Republican Party would go so far off the deep end that one of their top tier primary candidates would propose that we do away with the National Park Service (Department of the Interior). National Parks are "America's Best Idea", they are the most American thing the government has ever done, and the Paultards evidently think we need to do away with them.

Vote Ron Paul and you can kiss this goodbye:

Sorry kids we would have gone to Yosemite or Yellowstone or Glacier National Park this year and spend some time visiting our national treasures, but the Republicans did away with the Park Service and sold them to developers, so now they are all being either logged, mined, or being developed into another Vale.

Thank you Ron Paul for saving us from the tyranny of hiking trails, campgrounds, untouched forests, and park rangers.

I agree I'd much rather have the national parks remain functional than return our government to a similar state.

 

[Cold Highway]

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