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Religion, Judgment, and Political Correctness

blarg said:
what he said and what it means determines whether or not you agrees with what he says

what the hell dose political correctness have to do with anything?

how are not free to believe what you like?
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Well, if you don't think political correctness has anything to do with the thread, you should probably find another thread as this one is about political correctness as related to Pastor Wright's prayer. I won't address your last question as that would derail the thread and I prefer to keep the thread on topic as much as possible. And what he meant with his prayer is not at all important. What you heard yourself in the prayer is what the thread is about and whether you have a problem with it. Please re-read the OP.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Many believe that Christians are commanded to love the sinners but speak out against sin. Pastor Joe Wright of Central Christian Church in Wichita delivered the following prayer for the Kansas House of Representatives in 1996. It is again circulating via e-mail and seems to be as pertinent as ever. Does anybody have a problem with this? (I chose Snopes as the credible link just to save time.)


"Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask Your forgiveness and to seek Your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says 'Woe to those who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values. We confess that.

We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it Pluralism.

We have worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism.

We have endorsed perversion and called it alternative lifestyle.

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.

We have killed our unborn and called it choice.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self-esteem.

We have abused power and called it politics.

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.

We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free. Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent to direct us to the center of Your will, to open ask it in the name of Your Son, the living Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen"
Billy Graham's Prayer for Our Nation : snopes.com​

Would you have appreciated this prayer if you had been in attendance? Or bristled a bit at some of the 'sins' included?
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If this guy has a problem with a country that allows people to worship whatever god they want as they want (providing it does no harm to anyone of course) then he can lick my scrotum.

I think a prayer like this has absolutely no place taking place as a government sanctioned prayer in a government building (as it was).
 
And yet it did. In 1996.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well, if you don't think political correctness has anything to do with the thread, you should probably find another thread as this one is about political correctness as related to Pastor Wright's prayer. I won't address your last question as that would derail the thread and I prefer to keep the thread on topic as much as possible. And what he meant with his prayer is not at all important. What you heard yourself in the prayer is what the thread is about and whether you have a problem with it. Please re-read the OP.
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you seem to be accusing me of it for criticizing and questioning acceptance of it

but yes the prayer itself is politically correct for the religious right
 
roughdraft274 said:
If this guy has a problem with a country that allows people to worship whatever god they want as they want (providing it does no harm to anyone of course) then he can lick my scrotum.

I think a prayer like this has absolutely no place taking place as a government sanctioned prayer in a government building (as it was).
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I agree with your first sentence, so it's a really good thing that he didn't suggest that he has a problem with a country that allows people to worship whatever god they want as they want isn't it.
 
blarg said:
you seem to be accusing me of it for criticizing and questioning acceptance of it

but yes the prayer itself is politically correct for the religious right
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Well I can't do a thing about what things seem to you no matter how incorrect your assumptions are.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I agree with your first sentence, so it's a really good thing that he didn't suggest that he has a problem with a country that allows people to worship whatever god they want as they want isn't it.
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Its basically exactly what he said in his prayer. He's acting indignant that we would dare celebrate our society for having the ability for other's to worship a god other than his. He's definitely not celebrating it, and he's certainly not indifferent to it.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Its basically exactly what he said in his prayer. He's acting indignant that we would dare celebrate our society for having the ability for other's to worship a god other than his. He's definitely not celebrating it, and he's certainly not indifferent to it.
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Sorry but he said nothing like that in his prayer. You projecting what you thought he meant is not useful to the debate. Let's stick with what he actually said instead of what he might have meant.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Of course I have a problem with this, it is a crafted "prayer" to an audience with the intention of appealing to their authority to handle most if not all of those subjects. Or, an appeal to Theocracy.
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or it could be a call or morality.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Sorry but he said nothing like that in his prayer. You projecting what you thought he meant is not useful to the debate. Let's stick with what he actually said instead of what he might have meant.
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The Prayer said:
We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it Pluralism.

We have worshiped other gods and called it multiculturalism.
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If you don't see this prayer as criticizing our society for having freedom of religion then you're just in denial. Would you ever hold hands in prayer with someone of another religion and say "we are sorry lord for worshiping other gods"?
 
nota bene said:
And yet it did. In 1996.
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And, although it happened, it was controversial, now wasn't it.

I think that prayer would have been fine in his own church, but it was inappropriate for where it was.
 
roughdraft274 said:
If you don't see this prayer as criticizing our society for having freedom of religion then you're just in denial. Would you ever hold hands in prayer with someone of another religion and say "we are sorry lord for worshiping other gods"?
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Maybe I am in denial but I can read. And he said nothing even remotely close to criticism of our society for having freedom of religion. I think at least some who would read it that way might have a problem though.
 
RAMOSS said:
And, although it happened, it was controversial, now wasn't it.

I think that prayer would have been fine in his own church, but it was inappropriate for where it was.
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Inappropriate how?
 
AlbqOwl said:
Inappropriate how?
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For one thing, with the comment about many gods, it is knocking other people's religions. "We worshiped other gods and called it multiculturalism'.

and, the We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare. is also tacky, because that is not what welfare is... That also makes it entirely too political... because he is taking his political opinions, and presenting it as if it was from God.
 
Regardless of religion often the best prayers make us think. The worst thing anyone could possibly do is to accept the verity of any prayer without thinking.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Regardless of religion often the best prayers make us think. The worst thing anyone could possibly do is to accept the verity of any prayer without thinking.
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Absolutely. Sometimes for me it's just a phrase. I was reared as an Episcopalian, and one of the prayers calls us to be "faithful stewards of God's bounty." I've thought of that phrase--and tried to live it--just about every day of my life for decades now.
 
nota bene said:
Absolutely. Sometimes for me it's just a phrase. I was reared as an Episcopalian, and one of the prayers calls us to be "faithful stewards of God's bounty." I've thought of that phrase--and tried to live it--just about every day of my life for decades now.
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As I recall y'all got a whole book of prayers. ;)


If I might add to my previous comment above, I also believe that it is a huge mistake to refuse to consider the message of prayers outside of one's faith. Truth doesn't care who tells it.
 
RAMOSS said:
For one thing, with the comment about many gods, it is knocking other people's religions. "We worshiped other gods and called it multiculturalism'.

and, the We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare. is also tacky, because that is not what welfare is... That also makes it entirely too political... because he is taking his political opinions, and presenting it as if it was from God.
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I didn't take that as knocking other people's religions. I took it as a reference to the Biblical admonition, both Old and New Testament, to refrain from idolatry. Also he was not defining all that welfare is but rather he was addressing one down side or harmful aspect of it. Refer to my sig line for instance.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I didn't take that as knocking other people's religions. I took it as a reference to the Biblical admonition, both Old and New Testament, to refrain from idolatry. Also he was not defining all that welfare is but rather he was addressing one down side or harmful aspect of it. Refer to my sig line for instance.
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Ah, that is where someone from a different religion, other than Christianity, would disagree with you.
 
RAMOSS said:
Ah, that is where someone from a different religion, other than Christianity, would disagree with you.
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They can disagree to their heart's content, but I still reserve the right to my own opinion about it and I'm pretty sure Pastor Wright will reserve the right to his own intent.
 
AlbqOwl said:
They can disagree to their heart's content, but I still reserve the right to my own opinion about it and I'm pretty sure Pastor Wright will reserve the right to his own intent.
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You know what they say about 'good intentions'.
 
RAMOSS said:
You know what they say about 'good intentions'.
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This has nothing to do with anybody's intentions however. This has everything to do with what a person means when he/she speaks.
 
AlbqOwl said:
This has nothing to do with anybody's intentions however. This has everything to do with what a person means when he/she speaks.
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Sure it does.. How things are presented, and how people react to how things are presented makes a lot of difference. The way it appears to have been presented seems to be critical of anything that is not a conservative Christian, including if they disagree with some of those agendas...

I am not a conservative Christian, and the format of it seems to be specifically attacking my positions. As such, it is counter productive for a prayer at a government function. It promotes hard feelings more than anything else
 
RAMOSS said:
Sure it does.. How things are presented, and how people react to how things are presented makes a lot of difference. The way it appears to have been presented seems to be critical of anything that is not a conservative Christian, including if they disagree with some of those agendas...

I am not a conservative Christian, and the format of it seems to be specifically attacking my positions. As such, it is counter productive for a prayer at a government function. It promotes hard feelings more than anything else
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What you intend to say when you say it and how somebody else hears it are two different things. Pastor Wright has no control over anything others read into his remarks. Had I prayed a prayer like that I would mean exactly what I said. What you choose to read into it I have no control over, but what you read into it that I did not say has absolutely nothing to do with what I intended to say.
 
AlbqOwl said:
What you intend to say when you say it and how somebody else hears it are two different things. Pastor Wright has no control over anything others read into his remarks. Had I prayed a prayer like that I would mean exactly what I said. What you choose to read into it I have no control over, but what you read into it that I did not say has absolutely nothing to do with what I intended to say.
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There is no need to "read into it". On the very face of it, he's complaining and apologizing to god, in the middle of a government funded session, about us worshiping other gods. How dare we celebrate a free society with freedom of religion.

We as a society have gotten together and decided that our words have meanings Owl. His words speak for themselves.
 
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