Reincarnation anyone?

[Risky Thicket]

But lots of people apparently are. That's why the Ian Stevenson research is interesting - the kids do not remember being anyone they could have learned about, just ordinary people in some other village, etc.

In the U.S. especially, we are socialized out of the concept or reincarnation. It isn't something to be desired and as a kid you get the clear message that such talk is not normal and certainly not desirable. We all get that. You repress your knowledge and you forget it. Why the sense of reincarnation is stronger in some than others, I don't know. But, I would imagine that it's more acceptable to tell people you were Lady Jane or Pythagoras than some medieval rat bagger in England.

Having experienced the understanding - though much of it is gone - it is more of a sense or a knowing of things related to a life, bits and pieces, moments and feelings that aren't like other feelings. If you were a famous person in a previous life, I believe, at least, that you'd probably not have strong connections to the life unless it was your most recent past life. I don't know if that makes sense.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Interesting information. I had never heard of it before, but I guess the church maybe decided to break away from that line and I will have to check into their writings. Very interesting in deed, thank you.

True, the soul must find enlightenment in order to attain Nirvana under those beliefs and it is possible to both reincarnate up and down.

I like their take on it greatly. I'm always interested in learning.

With respect to your faith and to your commitment to it I would tell you that there is, and I believe it worthy of consideration, some thought that the much of the story of the search for the Christ child and many of the details are very Buddhist. Many Buddhist believe that Jesus was/is a bodhisattva - a Buddha who out of compassion choses not to remain in Nirvana (heaven) so that he/she can end the suffering of all sentient beings. That's a crappy definition, but I'm fairly close.

The 3 wise men, the journey, the search, the star, the gifts, all of that, is very Buddhist. I'm not suggesting Jesus was a Buddhist. I am saying that many Buddhist have no problem with accepting Jesus' existence or the fact that he was/is a man who is enlightened and compassionate and is God. Here it gets a bit technical in that "God" has a similar but somewhat different meaning. I often use the term "God" as it is generally understood by most everyone, but the name and the concept are not the same in Buddhism. Obviously, Buddhists don't believe in Jesus the way Christians do, but you might be surprised.

 

[LaMidRighter]

With respect to your faith and to your commitment to it I would tell you that there is, and I believe it worthy of consideration, some thought that the much of the story of the search for the Christ child and many of the details are very Buddhist. Many Buddhist believe that Jesus was/is a bodhisattva - a Buddha who out of compassion choses not to remain in Nirvana (heaven) so that he/she can end the suffering of all sentient beings. That's a crappy definition, but I'm fairly close.

The 3 wise men, the journey, the search, the star, the gifts, all of that, is very Buddhist. I'm not suggesting Jesus was a Buddhist. I am saying that many Buddhist have no problem with accepting Jesus' existence or the fact that he was/is a man who is enlightened and compassionate and is God. Here it gets a bit technical in that "God" has a similar but somewhat different meaning. I often use the term "God" as it is generally understood by most everyone, but the name and the concept are not the same in Buddhism. Obviously, Buddhists don't believe in Jesus the way Christians do, but you might be surprised.

With likewise respect for your beliefs and much appreciate the info. I really honestly think there is a junction somewhere in the infinite where all beliefs cross and that none are wrong, however we are limited by the finite plane we currently reside on. There are many interesting similarities to all belief systems as well as glaring differences. I have been told by more devout Catholics than myself that it is okay to study the tenets of Buddhism as long as it is philosophical in nature, there are many tenets which lead to a better life contained therein. The more I talk to people of various faiths the more I am convinced that religion is a test of man and everyone has a little piece of the total picture.

 

[Risky Thicket]

With likewise respect for your beliefs and much appreciate the info. I really honestly think there is a junction somewhere in the infinite where all beliefs cross and that none are wrong, however we are limited by the finite plane we currently reside on. There are many interesting similarities to all belief systems as well as glaring differences. I have been told by more devout Catholics than myself that it is okay to study the tenets of Buddhism as long as it is philosophical in nature, there are many tenets which lead to a better life contained therein. The more I talk to people of various faiths the more I am convinced that religion is a test of man and everyone has a little piece of the total picture.

Have you been talking to my wife? She is a strong, though not devout, Catholic and she feels exactly the same way. we don't talk the specifics of of our religions a great deal, but we do from time to time. Always out of genuine interest and not once to be critical. We have learned much from each other.

Buddhist don't have a problem if you belong to another religion. Many people, many Buddhists, see Buddhism as a philosophy and not a faith. In that way my wife accepts Buddhism. She does not fully buy into reincarnation.

I agree in that we all have jounies that we must make. My journey can't be yours. We can at times be on the same path but not always. I believe all paths lead to the same place. "Many paths, one destination.".

I believe reincarnation is not for the most part a re-run or a do over. It is still one path. I'd rather not keep returning but my progress and my return is ultimately up to me. Unfortunately, life after life, I seem to be dumber than a bag of hammers.

 

[Enola]

I started a new thread specifically about Buddhism, although you are welcome to continue in this one since reincarnation is a part of the belief system (I think).
I am really interested in learning more about buddhists so I would appreciate being led to where a newbie wanting to learn more can start. Suggestions on which books to check out, or which websites will help me in my endeavors.

 

[LaMidRighter]

Have you been talking to my wife? She is a strong, though not devout, Catholic and she feels exactly the same way. we don't talk the specifics of of our religions a great deal, but we do from time to time. Always out of genuine interest and not once to be critical. We have learned much from each other.

Buddhist don't have a problem if you belong to another religion. Many people, many Buddhists, see Buddhism as a philosophy and not a faith. In that way my wife accepts Buddhism. She does not fully buy into reincarnation.

I agree in that we all have jounies that we must make. My journey can't be yours. We can at times be on the same path but not always. I believe all paths lead to the same place. "Many paths, one destination.".

I believe reincarnation is not for the most part a re-run or a do over. It is still one path. I'd rather not keep returning but my progress and my return is ultimately up to me. Unfortunately, life after life, I seem to be dumber than a bag of hammers.

I keep an open mind about things, I am afterall a Sagittarius. With that in mind during my college days I ran across people of many faiths, I attended a university that is a well renkowned international institution with a large multi-cultural student body, it's amazing what one can learn when we approach things with respect and natural curiosity. Interestingly I believe the soul has choices upon passing, I believe it can remain bound to the earth, reincarnate, or pass to the next plane upon exiting the physical body. This comes to me simply from just listening to people of differing paths.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I keep an open mind about things, I am afterall a Sagittarius. With that in mind during my college days I ran across people of many faiths, I attended a university that is a well renkowned international institution with a large multi-cultural student body, it's amazing what one can learn when we approach things with respect and natural curiosity. Interestingly I believe the soul has choices upon passing, I believe it can remain bound to the earth, reincarnate, or pass to the next plane upon exiting the physical body. This comes to me simply from just listening to people of differing paths.

"a university that is a well renowned institution with large multi-cultural student body"...you obviously did not go to Auburn.

I have wondered about spirits or ghosts. They might be people who are in fact earth bound. I never thought about that. Someone said earlier that Taoists believe in reincarnation but their goal is to remain in the physical form. I dont know much about Taoism. I wonder why they would want to remain in the physical form? Reincarnation is a return to the physical form.

 

[Enola]

"a university that is a well renowned institution with large multi-cultural student body"...you obviously did not go to Auburn.

I have wondered about spirits or ghosts. They might be people who are in fact earth bound. I never thought about that. Someone said earlier that Taoists believe in reincarnation but their goal is to remain in the physical form. I dont know much about Taoism. I wonder why they would want to remain in the physical form? Reincarnation is a return to the physical form.

I have been googling but all this is new to me. In the other thread (the buddhist one), there is a link (first one I posted) that said there are 6 realms..or a word similar (3 for positve, 3 not so positive). One of those negative realms is ghosts or spirits and staying here instead of rebirth.

 

[LaMidRighter]

"a university that is a well renowned institution with large multi-cultural student body"...you obviously did not go to Auburn.

I have wondered about spirits or ghosts. They might be people who are in fact earth bound. I never thought about that. Someone said earlier that Taoists believe in reincarnation but their goal is to remain in the physical form. I dont know much about Taoism. I wonder why they would want to remain in the physical form? Reincarnation is a return to the physical form.

The best theory I have heard about spirits is that they have something important in life left unaccomplished, that or they otherwise kept something or someone as a "mission" and the inability to let go binds them to this plane. Binding is interesting as it is found in Catholicism, and some of the ancient Japanese religions, morality plays about spirits always held that they had a great sadness to release before they could pass. The other types of spirits I have heard of are residuals(the energy remains and repeats) and demonics which technically are not spirits in that demons were not human to begin with.

 

[LaMidRighter]

I have been googling but all this is new to me. In the other thread (the buddhist one), there is a link (first one I posted) that said there are 6 realms..or a word similar (3 for positve, 3 not so positive). One of those negative realms is ghosts or spirits and staying here instead of rebirth.

Interestingly enough, some Chrisitan scholars such as Dante described levels of Hell and Heaven, Hell is said to have 9 levels and each are assigned to the degree and nature of the sinner, and that heaven is said to be mult-leveled and each attainment grants the next and better level.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I started a new thread specifically about Buddhism, although you are welcome to continue in this one since reincarnation is a part of the belief system (I think).
I am really interested in learning more about buddhists so I would appreciate being led to where a newbie wanting to learn more can start. Suggestions on which books to check out, or which websites will help me in my endeavors.

Sorry for the thread drift. I will also join you on the Buddhist thread.

As to reincarnation I was once very interested in the subject. In my most recent past life I died in WWII. There is no doubt in my mind. Something to do with airplanes. I'm fairly certain I was shot down. I was an American who joined the Royal Canadian Airforce and was stationed in England. I was from somewhere, up north, a state I'm fairly certain, that starts with an "M". I have always thought Minnesota, but I've never felt a connection when I have been there or Michigan or Maine or Montana.

I fel the connection when I am in England but not to a specific place. There was a girl I was close to. A garden with purple flowers. There have been a number of connections and they began when I was very young.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I have been googling but all this is new to me. In the other thread (the buddhist one), there is a link (first one I posted) that said there are 6 realms..or a word similar (3 for positve, 3 not so positive). One of those negative realms is ghosts or spirits and staying here instead of rebirth.

Yes, but I don't think anyone chooses to stay and become a hungry ghost.

 

[Risky Thicket]

The best theory I have heard about spirits is that they have something important in life left unaccomplished, that or they otherwise kept something or someone as a "mission" and the inability to let go binds them to this plane. Binding is interesting as it is found in Catholicism, and some of the ancient Japanese religions, morality plays about spirits always held that they had a great sadness to release before they could pass. The other types of spirits I have heard of are residuals(the energy remains and repeats) and demonics which technically are not spirits in that demons were not human to begin with.

My mother was once a docent at the Fontaine House in Memphis. The house was once owned by Nathan Bedford Forrest. I think he lived there when he died.

She was on the third floor checking everything before they after they closed one evening when she felt a presence and smelled something when a door slammed. She went to check it out and couldn't find anyone. She was certain someone had been on the third floor. When she went downstairs and told the others that she thought a visitor might still be in the house they laughed and said it was "just Nathan". they didn't know that she didn't know that the house had a ghost.

 

[LaMidRighter]

My mother was once a docent at the Fontaine House in Memphis. The house was once owned by Nathan Bedford Forrest. I think he lived there when he died.

She was on the third floor checking everything before they after they closed one evening when she felt a presence and smelled something when a door slammed. She went to check it out and couldn't find anyone. She was certain someone had been on the third floor. When she went downstairs and told the others that she thought a visitor might still be in the house they laughed and said it was "just Nathan". they didn't know that she didn't know that the house had a ghost.

Louisiana is full of hauntings, and funny enough sensitives have said when they went to a place they weren't informed of in advance they got hit hard. The funniest one I heard of is the Orleans hotel in NOLA, some people were slapped by the embodiement of long gone nuns for outrageous behavior, when you consider the level of messed up behavior in that city one must wonder what they did. HAHA.
I still wonder how locked the planes are TBH. I think some spirits are bound here, but I think that once a spirit has been freed of the body and chooses not to reincarnate that possibly it can move between the finite and infinite planes.

 

[choiceone]

I started a new thread specifically about Buddhism, although you are welcome to continue in this one since reincarnation is a part of the belief system (I think).
I am really interested in learning more about buddhists so I would appreciate being led to where a newbie wanting to learn more can start. Suggestions on which books to check out, or which websites will help me in my endeavors.

The best introduction that I know is The Teachings of the Compassionate Buddha, edited and with an introduction by E A Burtt (London and New York, Mentor [Penguin Books], 1982 [originally published 1955]). This is a collection of excerpts from Buddhist scriptures, introduced by a chapter on basic Buddhist ideas, with little introductions to the excerpts where useful. The layout is historical, so you get the earliest scriptures and Theravada Buddhism first and the later scriptures and Mahayana Buddhism later. The translations are carefully selected and wonderful. They can give you a taste of Buddhism on a very accessible level.

Of course, Buddhism is huge and somehow less wieldy than Christianity - the South and Southeast Asian variations are quite different from the East Asian, and Tibetan Buddhism is different yet again. The book above includes no Tibetan texts or Tibetan introduction and no special Zen section. Some other overviews of the history of Buddhism and Buddhist texts are:

Wikipedia entries for "Buddhism" and "Buddhist texts"
Buddhism - Philosophy - Frames
About Buddhism

I want to cite here the translation of the opening of the first chapter of the Dhammapada, an early text, from the above book:

All that we are is the result of what we have thought:
it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts.
If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him,
as the wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the carriage.

All that we are is the result of what we have thought:
it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts.
If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him,
like a shadow that never leaves him.

"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" -
in those who harbor such thoughts hatred will never cease.
"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" -
in those who do not harbor such thoughts hatred will cease.

For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time;
hatred ceases by love - this is an eternal law.

 

[choiceone]

I started a new thread specifically about Buddhism, although you are welcome to continue in this one since reincarnation is a part of the belief system (I think).
I am really interested in learning more about buddhists so I would appreciate being led to where a newbie wanting to learn more can start. Suggestions on which books to check out, or which websites will help me in my endeavors.

The best introduction that I know is The Teachings of the Compassionate Buddha, edited and with an introduction by E A Burtt (London and New York, Mentor [Penguin Books], 1982 [originally published 1955]). This is a collection of excerpts from Buddhist scriptures, introduced by a chapter on basic Buddhist ideas, with little introductions to the excerpts where useful. The layout is historical, so you get the earliest scriptures and Theravada Buddhism first and the later scriptures and Mahayana Buddhism later. The translations are carefully selected and wonderful. I know some parts by heart, like certain parts of the Bible and other useful comforts from religion and literature. This can give you a taste of Buddhism at a very accessible level - it's not just some intellectual's fancy interpretation.

Of course, there are many things missing because Buddhism is huge and somehow less wieldy than Christianity - the South and Southeast Asian variations are quite different from the East Asian, and Tibetan Buddhism is different yet again. No Tibetan texts and no Tibetan introduction is included in the above, nor are any special Zen writings included.

For overviews of the history of Buddhism and Buddhist texts in other styles, try:

Wikipedia entries for "Buddhism" and "Buddhist texts"
Buddhism - Philosophy - Frames
About Buddhism

 

[choiceone]

With likewise respect for your beliefs and much appreciate the info. I really honestly think there is a junction somewhere in the infinite where all beliefs cross and that none are wrong, however we are limited by the finite plane we currently reside on. There are many interesting similarities to all belief systems as well as glaring differences. I have been told by more devout Catholics than myself that it is okay to study the tenets of Buddhism as long as it is philosophical in nature, there are many tenets which lead to a better life contained therein. The more I talk to people of various faiths the more I am convinced that religion is a test of man and everyone has a little piece of the total picture.

You might like a book on the story of Barlaam and Josaphat. The legend was identified as an adaptation of parts of the life and teaching of Buddha. In the oldest Near Eastern version, there is a synthesis of early Buddhist and Christian ideals. It is translated in Part Two of the following, prefaced in Part One by less enjoyable scholarly introductions to the background and process by which the story was traced from India and came to be embodied in various versions:

David Marshall Lang, The Wisdom of Balahvar. London and NY: George Allen and Unwin/Macmillan, 1957.

Meanwhile, somewhere in the early Buddhist texts, there is a statement by Sakyamuni Buddha that he was not teaching everything, because that was not given to him, but there would come another Buddha and that Buddha would save the world. In one copy of this text, it says this Buddha would come 500 years after Sakyamuni. Now, about 500 years after Sakyamuni, two major things happened in world religion in the Middle East and Asia. One was Jesus Christ's career. The other, about 30+ years after Christ's Ascension, was evidence in central Asia concerning legend of a king who renounced his throne to become a buddha and create a buddha-field/pure land/heaven and save all beings who called on his name, bringing them to the pure land where they would experience reduced suffering and could more easily attain enlightenment. The latter came to be known as Amitabha Bodhisattva, the Buddha of Infinite Light.

Now, before the Ascension, Jesus Christ said that there were other sheep in his flock and he was going to prepare a place for them, but no one knows where he went and he did after the Ascension. A long time ago, I read about people who thought that Jesus Christ and Amitabha Bodhisattva were actually the same person, that Christ returned as Amitabha, and that the Pure Land school of Buddhism centered on Amitabha is Asia's form of Christianity. I do not say this is true, only that it would make sense.
In the context of populations that believe in reincarnation, the pure land teaching is particularly appropriate, where the teaching of the Resurrection would have a completely different meaning.

 

[Helix]

first, i'm a skeptic about the existence of any kind of afterlife. i believe that we are basically biomachines with a computer brain. when our power is shut off, our "essence" is as functional as a permanently broken computer. we live on in two ways : children carry our genetic material, and our bodies fertilize the ground.

next, i can't imagine what the mechanism would be that would enable any memories to make the transfer. memories are saved in the brain like data is stored on a hard drive. one could argue that the memories are carried in the "soul," if there is such a thing, but then why would people with brain damage lose access to their soul memories along with actual memories? the evidence points to memory being an entirely biomechanical phenomenon.

that being said, i don't pretend to have the final answer on this, just the scientific one. additionally, i have had a couple recurring death dreams that do not change. the one that i have the most involves a shipwreck at night during a severe storm and judging by the technology / clothes, i would put it in the 16th century or so. the details from beginning to end don't change, and i actually drown in the dream. i've had it since i was a kid, and it's a big reason that i will not get on any ocean vessel. is it some kind of a memory of a past life? i tend to doubt it, but none of us knows for sure.

 

[Risky Thicket]

first, i'm a skeptic about the existence of any kind of afterlife. i believe that we are basically biomachines with a computer brain. when our power is shut off, our "essence" is as functional as a permanently broken computer. we live on in two ways : children carry our genetic material, and our bodies fertilize the ground.

next, i can't imagine what the mechanism would be that would enable any memories to make the transfer. memories are saved in the brain like data is stored on a hard drive. one could argue that the memories are carried in the "soul," if there is such a thing, but then why would people with brain damage lose access to their soul memories along with actual memories? the evidence points to memory being an entirely biomechanical phenomenon.

that being said, i don't pretend to have the final answer on this, just the scientific one. additionally, i have had a couple recurring death dreams that do not change. the one that i have the most involves a shipwreck at night during a severe storm and judging by the technology / clothes, i would put it in the 16th century or so. the details from beginning to end don't change, and i actually drown in the dream. i've had it since i was a kid, and it's a big reason that i will not get on any ocean vessel. is it some kind of a memory of a past life? i tend to doubt it, but none of us knows for sure.

I would think your dream and perhaps more importantly your belief in your dream or nightmare suggests there is something there. A previous life shouldn't be discounted. Perhaps if you exam you life more you will find connections or interests to that particular period. Do you have any idea where it might have occurred?

 

[Sig]

It may very well be that a collective hodgepodge of human experience is transmitted, to varying degrees, from some universal "databank" into the unconscious mind of every developing human brain throughout their childhood. At the very least, we inherit a disassembled mosaic of unconscious memory from our direct familial lineage. Thus, we are all "reincarnations" though some of us may, by pure chance, been endowed with a more concentrated and comprehensible amount of the stuff.

 

[Helix]

I would think your dream and perhaps more importantly your belief in your dream or nightmare suggests there is something there. A previous life shouldn't be discounted. Perhaps if you exam you life more you will find connections or interests to that particular period. Do you have any idea where it might have occurred?

Atlantic ocean between the US and England; closer to England than to the US.

as for the dream relating to my interests, i have been fascinated by shipwrecks since i was very young. this could explain the dream one way or the other, i suppose.

 

[lizzie]

In the U.S. especially, we are socialized out of the concept or reincarnation. It isn't something to be desired and as a kid you get the clear message that such talk is not normal and certainly not desirable. We all get that. You repress your knowledge and you forget it. Why the sense of reincarnation is stronger in some than others, I don't know. But, I would imagine that it's more acceptable to tell people you were Lady Jane or Pythagoras than some medieval rat bagger in England.

Interestingly (to me), the guy who was studying the case of the boy from La, and catalogs similar events, said that the memories typically begin to appear between ages 2 and 3 yoa, then start to fade at around 5 or 6.

 

[lizzie]

There are many interesting similarities to all belief systems as well as glaring differences. I have been told by more devout Catholics than myself that it is okay to study the tenets of Buddhism as long as it is philosophical in nature, there are many tenets which lead to a better life contained therein. The more I talk to people of various faiths the more I am convinced that religion is a test of man and everyone has a little piece of the total picture.

My thoughts are that religion fits people, in whatever way they need it. For those who need a large group of like-minded people with whom to associate, religion is a tie that binds, and that's a good thing, no matter the religion. For others, such as myself, I never found any religion that completely melded with my personality, and admittedly, I have an odd religious belief and practice, but it so perfectly fits me, and it is a sort of glue that holds me together, and has made me so much more open-minded than I would have thought possible when I was young.

 

[lizzie]

I have wondered about spirits or ghosts. They might be people who are in fact earth bound. I never thought about that. Someone said earlier that Taoists believe in reincarnation but their goal is to remain in the physical form. I dont know much about Taoism. I wonder why they would want to remain in the physical form? Reincarnation is a return to the physical form.

The bolded is something that would not at all surprise me. There are some who are so afraid of dying, that they cling to the things they are strongly emotionally attached to, or possibly to strong emotional events and places.

 

[lizzie]

next, i can't imagine what the mechanism would be that would enable any memories to make the transfer. memories are saved in the brain like data is stored on a hard drive. one could argue that the memories are carried in the "soul," if there is such a thing, but then why would people with brain damage lose access to their soul memories along with actual memories? the evidence points to memory being an entirely biomechanical phenomenon.

that being said, i don't pretend to have the final answer on this, just the scientific one. additionally, i have had a couple recurring death dreams that do not change. the one that i have the most involves a shipwreck at night during a severe storm and judging by the technology / clothes, i would put it in the 16th century or so. the details from beginning to end don't change, and i actually drown in the dream. i've had it since i was a kid, and it's a big reason that i will not get on any ocean vessel. is it some kind of a memory of a past life? i tend to doubt it, but none of us knows for sure.

I am admittedly skeptical as well, but too many odd experiences have happened in my life, to just shake things off as mere chance or coincidence. If I am imagining things, then they surely have a way of pointing strongly in the same direction. :lol: