Racist Crowd boos L.A. police chief

[mertex]

Jaminez was a criminal. According to the Washington Post in an article written nearly a week after the shooting:

The articles from the LA times (closer to the story than the Washington Post) do not say he was illegal. But, even if he was illegal, if it turns out that he was not armed, the police were wrong in shooting him.

Hmmm....so, everyone who was pretending a hispanic day laborer earning a living hanging out at Home Depot wasn't an Invader owes us Americans an apology. You can drop it off on your way out of the country.

If and until they prove that he was an illegal, he cannot be considered an invader. Why would I offer an apology to someone that spews hate-filled rhetoric when they don't even have all the facts? I'm not defending the dead man, I'm just questioning the reasoning behind those that have already settled the case without hearing all the evidence. That kind of mentality is just going to continue to stir up dissent and create more violence.

Clearly the situation was, according to established facts, the police were responding to a call about a drunken invader with a knife, who, when approached by officers, attacked them with a knife.

That was the police report. Of course the police are going to cover their butts when they do something that could cause them their badges. They may be telling the truth, and again, they may not. I would rather wait until it is proven so as not to appear like a fool by taking sides.

That there are outside agitators stirring up trouble over this incident isn't surprising. That's what history tells us to expect to happen. Horst Wessel wasn't much of a man, but there's a song for him, anyway. And the reasons will be the same, if you have the honesty to view the situation objectively.

They are people that object to police brutality. There has been trouble between the police and the people of that neighborhood, and apparently some have gotten tired of it. You don't like that they protested but I'd be willing to bet that you are all gung-ho for the Tea Party protestors, why, you might even be one of them, no?

 

[mertex]

At a distance, sure.
If your going to lunge at me from 100+ feet away, im probably going to laugh at you.

None of those details seem to have made the stories, so, we are still not sure what exactly took place, from the other side's point of view.

You fail to understand the nature of police shootings. The vast majority of police shootings happen at a range of 7 or less yards.

And most of them are warranted. It is those that are not that are in question, and this one, judging from the protests and claims from other witnesses, may be one of those.

It takes seconds for someone to get to you from 7 yards away. During this time, most officer involved shootings are the result of officers responding to an imminent threat that was not previously obvious.

Again, you are referring to situations which may have totally warranted the police's action. There are documented cases where it was obvious the police did not respond in a lawful manner.

The result is called "point shooting" where the gun is drawn and we point it in the direction of our target, which is near, and shoot it... there is no time to close an eye, line up sights, and all that rangehouse bull****. So where the bullet struck the individual was irrelevant.

I appreciate your detailed instructions, which I am really not interested in. I'm sure most policemen take their job seriously and act accordingly. There is that % that don't, I'm not making it up, there is evidence to back it up. The fact that the OP jumped to conclusions and called all the protestors racist, assumed that the police were in the right is what is being debated here.

Also, if they were very close, less than 3 yards, that could be a better reason for why it was a head shot... a contact shot is usually a good idea at those distances, I could see that happening.

It is all possible. Also, it is possible that the cops might have over-reacted. Tired of the problems that have been present between them and the neighborhood might have altered his thinking. To assume that the police were in the right, and all the others were in the wrong without hard facts is rather biased.

 

[mikhail]

Well from an outsiders perspective. I dont think America should of made itself into a country that now seems to have a split between the Spanish and English language.

 

[Caine]

We don't know if the knife is a plant.

Oh lord. are you freaking kidding me?
:roll:

What compelling evidence do you have to believe it is a planted knife?

Because police carry a special bag around with spare guns, knives, and drugs on them at all times just waiting to kill someone and plant a weapon or plant some drugs on someone just to make an arrest that won't mean **** right????

Un-****ing-believable.....

 

[Caine]

None of those details seem to have made the stories, so, we are still not sure what exactly took place, from the other side's point of view.


And most of them are warranted. It is those that are not that are in question, and this one, judging from the protests and claims from other witnesses, may be one of those.


Again, you are referring to situations which may have totally warranted the police's action. There are documented cases where it was obvious the police did not respond in a lawful manner.


I appreciate your detailed instructions, which I am really not interested in. I'm sure most policemen take their job seriously and act accordingly. There is that % that don't, I'm not making it up, there is evidence to back it up. The fact that the OP jumped to conclusions and called all the protestors racist, assumed that the police were in the right is what is being debated here.


It is all possible. Also, it is possible that the cops might have over-reacted. Tired of the problems that have been present between them and the neighborhood might have altered his thinking. To assume that the police were in the right, and all the others were in the wrong without hard facts is rather biased.

People protested the OJ Simpson trial, a man who is pretty much admittedly guilty.... yet the still protested like they knew what the **** was going on. So, your point of there being protests has to mean something is irrelevant.

Also, solicited interviews with these types of people (protestors as described above) by a news media anxious to report a controversial story to increase viewership, and therefore profits, don't go very far in my book, when considering that the average person thinks its "cool" to get themselves on TV.
So, now that the news media has a motive behind their reporting.....
Can anyone tell me a motive why an officer would shoot someone with unlawful intent, and then a department would knowingly cover it up for them instead of cast that officer out to be a bad apple and distance themselves from them instead??

I'll await an answer full of hyperbole.

 

[mertex]

Oh lord. are you freaking kidding me?

You must work in a rather quiet serene location. Welcome to the real world.
13 Miami Police Officers Arrested in Planted Gun Cases

Minneapolis Cops Planted Pistol on Teen after gunning him down

30 Cases of Extreme Police Brutality and Blatant Misconduct

Police Shoot elderly woman in Georgia, One Cop plants Marijuana in her home after shooting

500 Guns missing from Tx Police Evidence Room - Court Docs connect Capt Kelly of the County Sheriff's Dept and others

Police planted Gun on Fishermen after shooting incident

I can get you more, if you'd like.

What compelling evidence do you have to believe it is a planted knife?

Only the fact that one witness claimed he was unarmed.

Because police carry a special bag around with spare guns, knives, and drugs on them at all times just waiting to kill someone and plant a weapon or plant some drugs on someone just to make an arrest that won't mean **** right????

Explain to me how the above cases I posted got the "planted" guns?
****ing unbelievable!

Un-****ing-believable.....

You can say that again. Where do you police? Podunk, NC?

 

[mertex]

People protested the OJ Simpson trial, a man who is pretty much admittedly guilty.... yet the still protested like they knew what the **** was going on. So, your point of there being protests has to mean something is irrelevant.

I'm sure you meant relevant. But, did I say that? I know that protests don't mean something is relevant look at the Tea Party protestors, they protest like they know what the **** is going on, but we know better. Anyone can protest. It doesn't mean ****. However, I have read several articles saying there have been ongoing problems between the police and that neighborhood. Obviously the people are angry over something. If the posters on this thread, are getting so ****ing heated up over it, making racial slurs, and denigrating the people involved, when they have no interest in the case one way or the other, I can imagine the tension in the area itself.

Also, solicited interviews with these types of people (protestors as described above) by a news media anxious to report a controversial story to increase viewership, and therefore profits, don't go very far in my book, when considering that the average person thinks its "cool" to get themselves on TV.

It's not about you and how far they go in your book. It's about a life that has been taken, and it shouldn't be so matter of fact, just because he was Hispanic, illegal, or whatever. It will be interesting to find out the truth, whether it is the cop's who are telling it or others. Why do you have such a vested interest in accepting what they said, when there is controversy?

So, now that the news media has a motive behind their reporting.....
Can anyone tell me a motive why an officer would shoot someone with unlawful intent, and then a department would knowingly cover it up for them instead of cast that officer out to be a bad apple and distance themselves from them instead??

Why indeed is the question. But there have been many such cases. Sometimes it is an honest mistake, sometimes it is carelessness, and sometimes it is just plain hate, motivated by race, sex, religion, you name it.

Cops May Face Death Penalty in Post-Katrina Shootings

Five former New Orleans police officers already have pleaded guilty to helping cover up the shootings on the Danziger Bridge that left two men dead and four wounded just days after the August 2005 hurricane that devastated the city. In one instance, a mentally disabled man was allegedly shot in the back and stomped before he died.

I'll await an answer full of hyperbole.

You need to watch the news more often. That cocoon is not allowing you to experience the real world. Believing that everything is peachy keen doesn't make it so.

 

[Caine]

You must work in a rather quiet serene location. Welcome to the real world.
13 Miami Police Officers Arrested in Planted Gun Cases

Okay.....After a little searching I did manage to find something more credible to rely upon on this than "Oreilly-sucks.com" so I'll give you this one.

Minneapolis Cops Planted Pistol on Teen after gunning him down

This article is based upon what a lawsuit filing 'alleges". I'll take that for what it is worth.

30 Cases of Extreme Police Brutality and Blatant Misconduct

Most of these listed here are a bunch of half-truths told by the original poster with the intent on making the incident look worse than it was. Ive read about several of these, and most of them (note I did not say all) were justified, if not unpopular, uses of force.

Police Shoot elderly woman in Georgia, One Cop plants Marijuana in her home after shooting

As with the first example, I'll give you this one, people were charged, so obviously there was some form of wrong doing here.

500 Guns missing from Tx Police Evidence Room - Court Docs connect Capt Kelly of the County Sheriff's Dept and others

Nothing to do with plants, this is general crime syndicate supported by corrupt local cops. Did you read this stuff before you posted the links? This one is off topic. Just general "i hate the police so ima post some negative **** about them" Yes, I get it, there are bad cops out there. There are bad <insert anything here> out there.

Police planted Gun on Fishermen after shooting incident

Ummm... This **** is in PANAMA dude. I don't bother trying to understand and or defend actions of nations where I don't even know the legal restrictions of law enforcement. :roll:

I can get you more, if you'd like.

You got 2 so far.

Only the fact that one witness claimed he was unarmed.

One solicited media interviewed person claimed he was unarmed. Where was this person when police were looking for folks to interview.. you know.. post shooting incident.

Explain to me how the above cases I posted got the "planted" guns?

You mean those two cases? One seemed like a organized group within the police department (The Miami Case). The other seemed like an out of control narcotics squad. Not exactly your individual patrol guys if you ask me.

You can say that again. Where do you police? Podunk, NC?

Irrelevant ad-hom.

 

[Caine]

I'm sure you meant relevant. But, did I say that? I know that protests don't mean something is relevant look at the Tea Party protestors, they protest like they know what the **** is going on, but we know better. Anyone can protest. It doesn't mean ****. However, I have read several articles saying there have been ongoing problems between the police and that neighborhood. Obviously the people are angry over something. If the posters on this thread, are getting so ****ing heated up over it, making racial slurs, and denigrating the people involved, when they have no interest in the case one way or the other, I can imagine the tension in the area itself.

I don't speak for the tea-party, nor the posters, nor the immigration status of the individual. Im speaking from a police safety policy and procedure standpoint. And....Alot of areas in "El tocador" .. ahem.. i mean... "Los Angeles" are pissed off at the police. They expect miracles of protection from limited resources.

It's not about you and how far they go in your book. It's about a life that has been taken, and it shouldn't be so matter of fact, just because he was Hispanic, illegal, or whatever. It will be interesting to find out the truth, whether it is the cop's who are telling it or others. Why do you have such a vested interest in accepting what they said, when there is controversy?

Care to quote me where I gave a **** whether or not he was hispanic, illegal, or whatever? See above for details. I accept what those who did the on scene investigation say before a group of people who don't have the balls to come speak to the police when the incident occurred as witnesses, but then want to talk to the cameras to get on TV when being interviewed by a news media who has a job to spread controversy. If the investigators find out furthur information to change their view on the matter, then I will accept it. I don't jump the gun on internal investigations into use of force matters based upon a news agencies attempts to up viewership. Ive seen first hand how news agencies in metropolitan cities can **** up a story to add a little zest to the evening news. The controversy you speak of, very well could be a creation of the media.
It also could not be. But, I take what the internal investigation is giving and wait until more information is avaliable from THEM, not the profit driven news media.

Why indeed is the question. But there have been many such cases. Sometimes it is an honest mistake, sometimes it is carelessness, and sometimes it is just plain hate, motivated by race, sex, religion, you name it.

You have failed to answer the question, WHY. Each case is different. Just because something happened in the past doesn't give you an excuse to make blanket assumptions about all police actions. If you can answer the question, "Why would the department seek to cover up an unpopular shooting instead of outcasting and firing/charging the individual involved in an unlawful shooting. This causing the department to lose trust with the community."

A department who stands behind their people who made the right decision regardless of how unpopular that decision was is respectful.
A department scapegoating an officer who was in the right for fear of losing cooperation with the public is cowardly.
A department who covers up a wrongful shooting of an officer, knowing that that officer was acting unlawful is corrupt.
A department who investigates, and determines the officer was wrongful, and then proceeds to take appropriate action up to and including criminal charges against the officer if the situation warrants it is righteous.

You need to watch the news more often. That cocoon is not allowing you to experience the real world. Believing that everything is peachy keen doesn't make it so.

The profit generated news media? No thanks.

They are the ones who tried to initially convince us that the officer who punched the chick who jumped in to assault him while he was dealing with her resisting friend as being a bully and over-excessive. The country rejected that.

 

[VanceMack]

I'm sure you meant relevant. But, did I say that? I know that protests don't mean something is relevant look at the Tea Party protestors, they protest like they know what the **** is going on, but we know better. Anyone can protest. It doesn't mean ****. However, I have read several articles saying there have been ongoing problems between the police and that neighborhood. Obviously the people are angry over something. If the posters on this thread, are getting so ****ing heated up over it, making racial slurs, and denigrating the people involved, when they have no interest in the case one way or the other, I can imagine the tension in the area itself.


It's not about you and how far they go in your book. It's about a life that has been taken, and it shouldn't be so matter of fact, just because he was Hispanic, illegal, or whatever. It will be interesting to find out the truth, whether it is the cop's who are telling it or others. Why do you have such a vested interest in accepting what they said, when there is controversy?




Why indeed is the question. But there have been many such cases. Sometimes it is an honest mistake, sometimes it is carelessness, and sometimes it is just plain hate, motivated by race, sex, religion, you name it.

Cops May Face Death Penalty in Post-Katrina Shootings

Five former New Orleans police officers already have pleaded guilty to helping cover up the shootings on the Danziger Bridge that left two men dead and four wounded just days after the August 2005 hurricane that devastated the city. In one instance, a mentally disabled man was allegedly shot in the back and stomped before he died.


You need to watch the news more often. That cocoon is not allowing you to experience the real world. Believing that everything is peachy keen doesn't make it so.

Saaaaaweeeeeeet! Does this mean that we get to play look up the criminal behaviors of hispanics to condemn this particular person? I mean...heck...if we are going to find a bunch of stories about cops to generate mistrust...I wonder how many scumbag hispanics have hit the police blotters?

 

[mertex]

Okay.....After a little searching I did manage to find something more credible to rely upon on this than "Oreilly-sucks.com" so I'll give you this one.

I wonder how many get swept under the table?

While many police are bravely and steadfastly serving and protecting their fellow citizens, too many others are acting like public enemies:

In 1991, four policemen from the Oakland, California, Housing Authority were convicted for assaulting, robbing, stealing from, and planting drugs on local residents; several others pleaded guilty. U.S. Attorney William McGivern described the cops' behavior toward public housing residents:
Police Brutality: A License to Maul

This article is based upon what a lawsuit filing 'alleges". I'll take that for what it is worth.

Don't confuse me with facts?

Even after this in reference to the gun?
It had last been in possession of police before it was found next to the body of Fong Lee.
The court filings in a lawsuit filed by Fong Lee's family against Minneapolis police and the officer who fired the fatal shots, along with a review of police reports, witness statements and other documents, raise the possibility that Fong Lee was unarmed when an officer shot him eight times — and that the pistol that officers said they found near his body was placed there after the shooting.

Most of these listed here are a bunch of half-truths told by the original poster with the intent on making the incident look worse than it was. Ive read about several of these, and most of them (note I did not say all) were justified, if not unpopular, uses of force.

Okay, we can forgo those.

As with the first example, I'll give you this one, people were charged, so obviously there was some form of wrong doing here.

That's three, counting the Oakland one I posted above. And, four if we count the one you claim is alleged, but the fact that the gun was in the possession of the police makes it rather suspect.

Nothing to do with plants, this is general crime syndicate supported by corrupt local cops. Did you read this stuff before you posted the links? This one is off topic. Just general "i hate the police so ima post some negative **** about them" Yes, I get it, there are bad cops out there. There are bad <insert anything here> out there.

No, just wanted you to see that if they can steal guns, they are not as squeaky clean as some may think.

Ummm... This **** is in PANAMA dude. I don't bother trying to understand and or defend actions of nations where I don't even know the legal restrictions of law enforcement. :roll

:
Oops, I didn't read that one - sorry.

You got 2 so far.

No, three, maybe four.

One solicited media interviewed person claimed he was unarmed. Where was this person when police were looking for folks to interview.. you know.. post shooting incident.

She wasn't the only witness to say that. And, she's afraid to give her last name and have her face shown, fear of reprisal from the police. That doesn't speak well of the police.
Ana, who declined to give her name, is the second person to claim they did not see a weapon in Jamines' hand when he was shot on Sunday.
Witness Says Victim Of Westlake Police Shooting Was Unarmed, Mayor Stands Behind LAPD | Neon Tommy

I also read an article that claimed they couldn't locate the pregnant woman the police claimed had flagged them down. Just, pointing out little discrepancies.

You mean those two cases? One seemed like a organized group within the police department (The Miami Case). The other seemed like an out of control narcotics squad. Not exactly your individual patrol guys if you ask me.

Police always have the upper hand. If they are mistreating someone, that person cannot defend themselves against them, it only makes it worse and you just get yourself into deeper trouble. But, that isn't right. That is why I believe if the situation is questionable, it should be investigated, and cops that have become impressed with themselves need to find another type of job.

Statistics on Police Brutality
Recent statistics published by the Stolen Lives Project estimate that the number of cases in the United States relating to police brutality has reached the thousands, but these statistics come with a disclaimer - many, if not most, of these instances are never reported due to fear of reprisal.
Police Brutality Facts, Statistics & Victims of Police Brutality

Police Brutality Cases on Rise since 9/11

Irrelevant ad-hom.

Just because you haven't witnessed it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[mertex]

Saaaaaweeeeeeet! Does this mean that we get to play look up the criminal behaviors of hispanics to condemn this particular person? I mean...heck...if we are going to find a bunch of stories about cops to generate mistrust...I wonder how many scumbag hispanics have hit the police blotters?

Geez. Another bigot offering his reason why cops shouldn't be questioned. They are always right! Especially if it involves "scumbag" Hispanics. Why I bet I can identify your party - Republican/conservative, no? I can tell by the racial overtones, so typical of the right-wing nuts.

FYI, the mistrust is already there, especially in big cities. And, I'm willing to bet that most of the bad cops just happen to be white and conservative! They gives the rest of us white people a bad reputation. Thanks.

 

[VanceMack]

Geez. Another bigot offering his reason why cops shouldn't be questioned. They are always right! Especially if it involves "scumbag" Hispanics. Why I bet I can identify your party - Republican/conservative, no? I can tell by the racial overtones, so typical of the right-wing nuts.

FYI, the mistrust is already there, especially in big cities. And, I'm willing to bet that most of the bad cops just happen to be white and conservative! They gives the rest of us white people a bad reputation. Thanks.

Is that what I did? huh...I thought I pointed out some idiot using his bigoted position against police officers by pointing out the same could be done by pointing out all the hispanic scumbags that would then indict the Guatemalan criminal. You know...tit...tat...

The braying Jackass...NEVER a more suitable avatar...

 

[mertex]

I don't speak for the tea-party, nor the posters, nor the immigration status of the individual. Im speaking from a police safety policy and procedure standpoint. And....Alot of areas in "El tocador" .. ahem.. i mean... "Los Angeles" are pissed off at the police. They expect miracles of protection from limited resources.

If the job is too difficult for them, they shouldn't be doing it.

Care to quote me where I gave a **** whether or not he was hispanic, illegal, or whatever?

Care to quote where I said you did? I was talking about other posters on this thread that have called the people scumbags, maggots, etc. And, the fact that you think the cops are telling the truth, is your right. And the fact that I choose to wait until the investigation is done because I don't think cops always tell the truth is my right also.

See above for details. I accept what those who did the on scene investigation say before a group of people who don't have the balls to come speak to the police when the incident occurred as witnesses, but then want to talk to the cameras to get on TV when being interviewed by a news media who has a job to spread controversy.

And, they have given their reasons. If all the police act like you - defensive and indignant because your actions are questioned, then it is no wonder that they are afraid to speak out. You can accept whatever the hell you want, that is your right, but don't insinuate that I don't have a reason to be doubtful.

If the investigators find out furthur information to change their view on the matter, then I will accept it. I don't jump the gun on internal investigations into use of force matters based upon a news agencies attempts to up viewership. Ive seen first hand how news agencies in metropolitan cities can **** up a story to add a little zest to the evening news. The controversy you speak of, very well could be a creation of the media.

That is commendable, that you don't jump the gun on internal investigations, but I have seen cases where the police close ranks and are willing to lie for each other, until, of course, evidence is presented that can't be refuted. You have your experiences, and I have mine. You are trying to say that mine don't count, which is BS.

It also could not be. But, I take what the internal investigation is giving and wait until more information is avaliable from THEM, not the profit driven news media.

Good for you. But based on my experiences, I have a tendency to question it, especially when it involves minorities, as it seems that lately racism seems to have taken on a new life.

You have failed to answer the question, WHY.

What the hell do you think I am, some psychoanalyst? How the hell do I know why people are racist. Why they think that people of a different color skin are to be shunned, mistreated and ignored? Why cops would have such animosity toward minorities? But, it seems to be prevalent.

Each case is different. Just because something happened in the past doesn't give you an excuse to make blanket assumptions about all police actions.

Just because something happened in the past means that it can happen again. I posted articles indicating that Police Brutality is on the rise. And, it seems it is always directed toward minorities. And I have not made any blanket assumptions, you have. I have said all along that I will wait for the investigation, to find out what the truth is. If that bothers you, too bad, I really don't give a ****.

If you can answer the question, "Why would the department seek to cover up an unpopular shooting instead of outcasting and firing/charging the individual involved in an unlawful shooting. This causing the department to lose trust with the community."

Maybe you should answer the question yourself on the cases that I pointed out. At this point the Westlake Police Dept isn't really covering up anything. It is my understanding there is an investigation going on, they are just going with what the police reported, which of course, they would. They would have to be morons to say that they didn't believe their cops, anyone should be able to figure that out, don't understand why you don't.

A department who investigates, and determines the officer was wrongful, and then proceeds to take appropriate action up to and including criminal charges against the officer if the situation warrants it is righteous.

That is is all that is expected.

The profit generated news media? No thanks.
They are the ones who tried to initially convince us that the officer who punched the chick who jumped in to assault him while he was dealing with her resisting friend as being a bully and over-excessive. The country rejected that.

Don't know about that case, and I really don't care.

 

[mertex]

Is that what I did?

Sure seems like it.

huh...I thought I pointed out some idiot using his bigoted position against police officers by pointing out the same could be done by pointing out all the hispanic scumbags that would then indict the Guatemalan criminal. You know...tit...tat...

Maybe you should read all the relative posts, so you don't make asinine assumptions. Nobody is taking a position against the cops, just waiting until the investigation is done before I make derogatory comments, unlike the rest of the racists bigots on this thread who claim they are not racist but sure don't mind spewing their racist rhetoric and have dehumanized a bunch of people without having all the facts.

The braying Jackass...NEVER a more suitable avatar...

A lot better than a blob of purple fecal matter.

 

[Caine]

If the job is too difficult for them, they shouldn't be doing it.

Please... elaborate on what you mean. Otherwise I'll be led to assume you think that officers should needlessly put themselves at risk for no good reason because YOU (a common citizen without law enforcement knowledge) believe that it is their job to be a lottery number deathpool player so the general public doesn't have to be. A "meat shield" in order to protect the public from harmful people while at the same time not providing them the authority to defend themselves to a reasonable fear of imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. So please, don't mislead me... elaborate.

Care to quote where I said you did? I was talking about other posters on this thread that have called the people scumbags, maggots, etc. And, the fact that you think the cops are telling the truth, is your right. And the fact that I choose to wait until the investigation is done because I don't think cops always tell the truth is my right also.

Well, don't respond to MY posts whining about what other folks in this thread are doing. I read it, and I don't bother responding to it.

And, they have given their reasons. If all the police act like you - defensive and indignant because your actions are questioned, then it is no wonder that they are afraid to speak out. You can accept whatever the hell you want, that is your right, but don't insinuate that I don't have a reason to be doubtful.

Did you not read when the incident occurred. If you were a witness to something, and didn't bother to stick around and speak up and talk to investigators at the time, and then become "too scared" to talk to them afterwards.... your testimony is going NOWHERE. Courts don't use BS 'anonymous' media reports as evidence at trial. All those who testify have to do so in court, under oath and risk of perjury. Im defensive when members of accused of wrongdoing, without any credible evidence, just because "some people did it in the past".

That is commendable, that you don't jump the gun on internal investigations, but I have seen cases where the police close ranks and are willing to lie for each other, until, of course, evidence is presented that can't be refuted. You have your experiences, and I have mine. You are trying to say that mine don't count, which is BS.

Unfortunately if these chicken **** jackasses who claim to have witnessed the incident, but didn't bother to talk to initial investigators, don't get down and given sworn statements to internal affairs investigators about what they witnessed, but didn't bother to report until now, and allow the investigators to question them and obtained a more clear picture of what occurred, then there will be no evidence to the contrary that can't be refuted.

Good for you. But based on my experiences, I have a tendency to question it, especially when it involves minorities, as it seems that lately racism seems to have taken on a new life.

What the hell do you think I am, some psychoanalyst? How the hell do I know why people are racist. Why they think that people of a different color skin are to be shunned, mistreated and ignored? Why cops would have such animosity toward minorities? But, it seems to be prevalent.

So now your arguing that the hispanic cop who was involved is racist against.... hispanics? What made you believe race is suddenly a factor in this incident?
Not only do you now believe that the shooting was intentionally unlawful, there is a cover up, a planted weapon, but now you have allowed yourself to believe its racially motivated....
And what has led you to believe this?

Why would you believe that racism is prevalent? Because the controversy fueld news media told you? Anything gets turned into a race issue these days. So much so that false racism accusations have become commonplace when dealing with every day offenders.

Don't even let me go there when it comes to Rodney King. (Nobody mentions King's passenger who wasn't beaten, it goes against the image the controversy fueled media likes to portray).

Just because something happened in the past means that it can happen again. I posted articles indicating that Police Brutality is on the rise. And, it seems it is always directed toward minorities. And I have not made any blanket assumptions, you have. I have said all along that I will wait for the investigation, to find out what the truth is. If that bothers you, too bad, I really don't give a ****.

You are accusing these officers of racism (not sure where that came from), unlawfully killing another purposefully, planting evidence, lying, and attempting to cover up. Many of this information has not been obtained from anywhere other than your own head. I would call many of these blanket assumptions.

Maybe you should answer the question yourself on the cases that I pointed out.

Which have nothing to do with THIS case, and is the basis of you making blanket assumptions of THIS incident.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

I side 100% with these officers given the facts. Race is not an issue with me but it sure is with the crowd. Their actions were like children.

 

[VanceMack]

Oh I see...you wade into the conversation and starting about 50 posts ago you start casting aspersions about the cops, bringing multiple link s into the discussion...and thats just your way of saying...gee...we just have to let it all play out? And then you get all twisted when I suggest the same thing be done...bringing in reports of criminal acts of Hispanics...since YOU want to drag non-applicable accounts of police deeds into the discussion...and then you cry prejudice and bigotry? Typical!

 

[The Giant Noodle]

Oh I see...you wade into the conversation and starting about 50 posts ago you start casting aspersions about the cops, bringing multiple link s into the discussion...and thats just your way of saying...gee...we just have to let it all play out? And then you get all twisted when I suggest the same thing be done...bringing in reports of criminal acts of Hispanics...since YOU want to drag non-applicable accounts of police deeds into the discussion...and then you cry prejudice and bigotry? Typical!

WHo are you talking to?

 

[mertex]

Please... elaborate on what you mean.

If you are so freakin skittish that you are going to shoot at the slightest movement made by a suspect, you have no business being a policeman. Is that clear enough for you?

Otherwise I'll be led to assume you think that officers should needlessly put themselves at risk for no good reason because YOU (a common citizen without law enforcement knowledge) believe that it is their job to be a lottery number deathpool player so the general public doesn't have to be.

You can assume whatever you want, but that doesn't mean that you know what I am thinking. You keep repeating that same statement, sounds like something you memorized at police academy. I don't have to have "law enforcement" knowledge to realize that there are policemen prone to use excessive force and brutality when totally uncalled for.

A "meat shield" in order to protect the public from harmful people while at the same time not providing them the authority to defend themselves to a reasonable fear of imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. So please, don't mislead me... elaborate.

Damn, do you always extrapolate? Where in the hell did I say any of that? You seem to have a personal problem accepting criticism of behavior that has been observed and known to occur in many police departments. Policemen are not exempt for the same laws that are imposed on private citizens.

Well, don't respond to MY posts whining about what other folks in this thread are doing. I read it, and I don't bother responding to it.

It was not whining, it was an observation. And, all you have to do is ignore it. I don't have mind-reading capabilities to see what is going to tickle your fancy.

Did you not read when the incident occurred. If you were a witness to something, and didn't bother to stick around and speak up and talk to investigators at the time, and then become "too scared" to talk to them afterwards.... your testimony is going NOWHERE.

Says who? Many times witnesses have valid reasons for not speaking out. Especially if they have reason to believe the "police" are going to retaliate against them. Witnesses don't have time limits by which they must report what they saw, where do you get such nonsense?

Courts don't use BS 'anonymous' media reports as evidence at trial.

Who said they did? Why are making **** up?

All those who testify have to do so in court, under oath and risk of perjury.

No kidding? Wow! That's news to me - I'm so glad you brought me up to date! :doh

Im defensive when members of accused of wrongdoing, without any credible evidence, just because "some people did it in the past".

You are not being accused of anything, no need for you to take responsibility for every freakin policeman in the whole United States. There is an investigation going on to determine whether it was right or not. Until the investigation is complete we won't know whether it was. For you to go on the defensive is rather premature.

Unfortunately if these chicken **** jackasses who claim to have witnessed the incident, but didn't bother to talk to initial investigators, don't get down and given sworn statements to internal affairs investigators about what they witnessed, but didn't bother to report until now, and allow the investigators to question them and obtained a more clear picture of what occurred, then there will be no evidence to the contrary that can't be refuted.

You can call them chicken **** jackasses all you want. But who the hell is going to go against "armed" police who can come back and shoot you and make it look like it was all legal? After all, all they have to do is claim that you lunged at them with a weapon, and they have people like you ready to back them up and claim they are only defending themselves.

So now your arguing that the hispanic cop who was involved is racist against.... hispanics?

Unless you can quote me as having said that, please don't be making **** up.

What made you believe race is suddenly a factor in this incident?

I don't know that race is a factor in the shooting, and I didn't say it was. You need to learn how to interpret what you read. I know that race is a factor in this thread because of the derogatory comments that have been made against the protestors.

Not only do you now believe that the shooting was intentionally unlawful, there is a cover up, a planted weapon, but now you have allowed yourself to believe its racially motivated....
And what has led you to believe this?

Wow! You do have comprehension problems. Where did I say that the shooting was intentional and that the weapon was planted. I merely suggested that these were possibilities. If you can't differentiate between suppositions and accusations you have no business debating. You need to quit making **** up.

Why would you believe that racism is prevalent?

Because many of the police brutality cases are usually between white cops and minorities.

Police brutality is an everyday occurance in cities especially where large communities of colour are concerned. Black, Latino and Asian youth are harassed, assaulted and killed on a daily basis.
Socialism Today - US Police Brutality

Because the controversy fueld news media told you? Anything gets turned into a race issue these days. So much so that false racism accusations have become commonplace when dealing with every day offenders.

You seem to have a real problem with the news media. Calling them controversy fueled because they report what is taking place? It seems that you don't want to accept the fact that there is racism, and are one to deny it exists even when it is right in front of your face.

Don't even let me go there when it comes to Rodney King. (Nobody mentions King's passenger who wasn't beaten, it goes against the image the controversy fueled media likes to portray).

I don't remember bringing him up. So, if you don't want to go there, why do you bring it up? Obviously you do want to go there.

You are accusing these officers of racism (not sure where that came from), unlawfully killing another purposefully, planting evidence, lying, and attempting to cover up. Many of this information has not been obtained from anywhere other than your own head. I would call many of these blanket assumptions.

And you are accusing me of things that I have not done. Quote me where I accused them of racism. You can't because you are making all this **** up. You have made your mind up that there was no wrongdoing and I have stated that it was your right, I also stated that I was going to wait for the investigation to report it's findings. If you have interpreted that into my accusing the cops of being racists, you have a problem digesting information. That is your problem, not mine.

Which have nothing to do with THIS case, and is the basis of you making blanket assumptions of THIS incident.

I'm only suggesting the possibilities based on what the people are saying. You want to discount what they say, that is your right. But, don't tell me that I don't have a right to do the opposite.

 

[Bodi]

Geez. Another bigot offering his reason why cops shouldn't be questioned. They are always right! Especially if it involves "scumbag" Hispanics. Why I bet I can identify your party - Republican/conservative, no? I can tell by the racial overtones, so typical of the right-wing nuts.

FYI, the mistrust is already there, especially in big cities. And, I'm willing to bet that most of the bad cops just happen to be white and conservative! They gives the rest of us white people a bad reputation. Thanks.

It seems like he is making opbservations just as you are... I mean, it's not like you are making any sweeping generalizations or anything.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

The "weapon" is being questioned. Like, we don't really know that there was a weapon. Just the cop's word, whom, as of late, have been found to lie.

Yeah, sure. Whatever.

The dead guy had a knife, end of story.

No debate allowed until you provide actual evidence that the knife was planted by the cops. Until that time, all such arguments denying the illegal alien had a knife are mere desperation ploys.

Easier to apprehend. Unless, you are trigger happy.

I see that when you grow up you're going to be a lot of fun with the drunks in the bars.

Meanwhile, there's absolutely no need to apprehend a drunk when he's attacking a cop....typically bringing the knife to the gun club isn't worth the effort.

If the cop is too busy defending his life to arrest the guy, that's just too bad, isn't it?

Maybe the next time Jaminez can choose to be a little more restrained in his violent outbursts?

Shooting an unarmed man is not.

See? You're building strawmen then then expecting them to dance and sing and lead Dorothy to the Emerald City.

Well, your strawmen with the knife got shot in a justifiable case of self-defense and he's not leading anyone anywhere.

I made a reference to Horst Wessel, have you bothered to look up that little bit of histor?

We don't know if the knife is a plant. According to the OP and most of the right-wing posting here, the case has already been settled. All the protestors were illegals and should be sent back to Mexico, even though the dead man was from Guatemala!

I don't rightly care where they're sent. You'll notice that your construction says the Americans want the protesters who are illegal aliens to be sent back to Mexico, which you say makes no sense because the dead knife wielding assailant was from Guatemala. Are you able to explain your assumption that the protesters can't be Mexican just because the dead criminal was Guatemalan, while you yourself are complaining that we're assuming they ARE Mexican because the dead guy almost certainly came from Mexico, since the odds that he had the money to fly to the US, thereby bypassing Mexico are practically nonexistent?

I mean, almost all of those invading criminals from "south of the border" WALKED into the nation they disrespect so. Therefore, as far as I and any other real American are concerned, they're FROM Mexico, and all we need to do is push them back into Mexico, and the Mexican government who allowed them to cross their country in the first place can sort out their screw up at their own expense.

I mean, once we eject them, we don't have to spend another second thinking about them.

Get the picture?

 

[mertex]

It seems like he is making opbservations just as you are... I mean, it's not like you are making any sweeping generalizations or anything.

Comparing cops to citizens? We know people break the law. Cops are supposed to uphold the law, they are not in competition with people, so pointing out that people commit more crimes than cops is short of ridiculous. But, maybe some on this thread think they are in competition with citizens?

 

[VanceMack]

Comparing cops to citizens? We know people break the law. Cops are supposed to uphold the law, they are not in competition with people, so pointing out that people commit more crimes than cops is short of ridiculous. But, maybe some on this thread think they are in competition with citizens?

Just likie not all hispanics are scumbag drug dealing gtang banging racists, not all cops can or ought to be painted with the same brush that you havfe. SO...THIS CASE...Im not seeing any more evidence of police misconduct.

 

[mertex]

Yeah, sure. Whatever.

The dead guy had a knife, end of story.

That is what the police report indicates. There is controversy. If you are a person who isn't able to hear both sides without prejudice, I hope you never serve on a jury.

No debate allowed until you provide actual evidence that the knife was planted by the cops. Until that time, all such arguments denying the illegal alien had a knife are mere desperation ploys.

Desperation ploys? What are you, unable to comprehend debate. I'm not a relative of the dead man, neither am I one of the protestors, so why would I be desperate?
All I said, if you could understand, is that it is under investigation and hopefully they will determine if the cop did right or wrong. LAPD has been under the microscope for similar accusations.

An internal LAPD investigation now underway ultimately should provide the facts on whether the officers who encountered Jamines had any realistic alternative to firing. In the interim, a number of important things are clear.

This is a new Los Angeles Police Department — one that not only has reformed itself according to the Christopher Commission's recommendations and the requirements of the federal consent decree imposed in the wake of the Rampart scandal, but also one that continues to learn as it goes. The police riot that broke up an immigrant rights rally in MacArthur Park was the low point of Chief William J. Bratton's tenure, but the department's response — a thorough report quickly made public and discipline for the command officers responsible — was a high point.
A complex picture emerges from Westlake shooting - Los Angeles Times

I see that when you grow up you're going to be a lot of fun with the drunks in the bars.

This is nothing more than an insult, I'm surprised that the Mods don't warn you about it. Most people that are unable to debate, insult. Thank you for identifying yourself.

Meanwhile, there's absolutely no need to apprehend a drunk when he's attacking a cop....typically bringing the knife to the gun club isn't worth the effort.

Just shoot them down, why waste time, eh? Brilliant solution.

If the cop is too busy defending his life to arrest the guy, that's just too bad, isn't it?

I guess we'll have to wait for the investigation, before making definitive comments, but I see you don't let that stop you.

Maybe the next time Jaminez can choose to be a little more restrained in his violent outbursts?

Now that is a stupid comment. Jamines is dead, unless you believe in ghosts, then I guess your comment would be appropriate.

See? You're building strawmen then then expecting them to dance and sing and lead Dorothy to the Emerald City.
Well, your strawmen with the knife got shot in a justifiable case of self-defense and he's not leading anyone anywhere.
I made a reference to Horst Wessel, have you bothered to look up that little bit of histor?

Based on your ignorant statement about a dead man, why would I even bother to check out anything you say.

I don't rightly care where they're sent. You'll notice that your construction says the Americans want the protesters who are illegal aliens to be sent back to Mexico, which you say makes no sense because the dead knife wielding assailant was from Guatemala.

My construction? What the hell is that supposed to mean? And yes, it is ignorant to say they should be sent to Mexico without knowing where exactly they are from, some of them are most likely American citizens.

Are you able to explain your assumption that the protesters can't be Mexican just because the dead criminal was Guatemalan, while you yourself are complaining that we're assuming they ARE Mexican because the dead guy almost certainly came from Mexico, since the odds that he had the money to fly to the US, thereby bypassing Mexico are practically nonexistent?

The fact that they brought a Guatemalan flag to a meeting is one good indication.
A man holds up an American flag and a Guatemalan flag during a community meeting in Los Angeles, Wednesday, Sept. 8, 2010.
Police bracing for more protests as Westlake shooting investigation continues - LA Daily News

Coming through Mexico and coming from Mexico are not the same thing. Have someone explain that to you.

I mean, almost all of those invading criminals from "south of the border" WALKED into the nation they disrespect so. Therefore, as far as I and any other real American are concerned, they're FROM Mexico, and all we need to do is push them back into Mexico, and the Mexican government who allowed them to cross their country in the first place can sort out their screw up at their own expense.

Thank God you don't hold any respectable public office. Based on your comments, I'm sure you never will.

I mean, once we eject them, we don't have to spend another second thinking about them.

Get the picture?

You must either be really naive or new to America. Which is it? We've been ejecting Mexicans back to Mexico for decades, and somehow they keep coming back. The problem is with those that are getting payola to look the other way. They wouldn't come here if people weren't so eager to hire them, but somehow, the employers of the illegals seem to get a free pass. What's wrong with that picture?

I hate to break it to you, but we (U.S.) are part of the problem.

Custom's Agent and His Wife arrested for taking bribes

US Border Patrol Agent arrested on Bribery Charges

Multiple cases reported in Newspapers of Border Patrol Abusing Articles

Rising Number of US Border enforcement Officers Arrested on Corruption Charges