Putin launched huge missile strike on Ukraine.

[Oozlefinch]

Russia is a failed hell hole under this monster. Russia needs to be isolated from the rest of the world. Russians need to be banished from countries.

Gorbachev made an attempt to thaw relations and join the world. Russia didn't want that. They like their dictators.

None of which justifies a claim that Russia would commit an act of war against a NATO country.

Oh, and the thaw at the end of the USSR was less about trying to thaw relations, that had been tried before and the West learned most times it was only a ploy.

However, those who did not like the lessening of the restrictions were the hardliners like the KGB. Which is why they attempted a coup to return things to how they had been before.

However, it is a complete and utter failure to say "Russia didn't want that", as the populace turned out in overwhelming numbers to support the government. Which is why the coup failed. Because in a rare instance even the military refused to back the KGB, and the leadership of the coup either defenestrated themselves or ate Makarov sandwiches.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Nothing is automatic about sending US troops if France by itself decides to send troops to a fight in a non NATO country.

Exactly, only if France itself is attacked.

Just as US involvement in Vietnam did not obligate other nations to attack Vietnam. Or the same in the Korean War.

 

[multivita-man]

France is already beating the war drums. Putin is insane enough to bring on WW 3 Dead Russians mean nothing to him. He wants a glorious Russia dead or alive.

I think whether there's a World War Three depends just as much on how the behavior of the West as it does Russia.

 

[Roadvirus]

He wanted to reduce Ukraine's ability to fight.

The opposite occurred.

If Ukraine made a deal about those small contested areas on the Russian border, along with assurances that Ukraine would not be part of NATO, Putin would stop in an instant.

Russia has a history of breaking deals.

 

[Roadvirus]

What makes you think that?

The Russian loyalists at RT and Tass said so.

 

[Aurora]

Moscow is so heavily monitored by cameras. It's truly a police state. To say Russia wasn't involved is suspect. Then if they had advance warning they would be acting on that.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Europe is not in danger if Ukraine makes a deal to end the war.

Right, in other words appeasement.

Seems to me we have heard that before. The Sudetenland, Rhineland, Saar, Anschluss, Czechoslovakia, Czechoslovakia II, the Memel. Each time saying the exact same thing. They were reclaiming German lands, that the land wanted to be part of Germany, and that would be the last of their territorial expansion.

I think everybody knows what the ultimate outcome of that was.

And yes, I think Ukraine should make a deal to end the war. The borders reset back to the Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty of 1997.

 

[Aurora]

Russia is whipping up the story that the Moscow shooting was Ukrainian. Putin is fueling his dupes to prepare for security lockdowns, mass mobilization and lots of dead Russians dying in Ukraine. For the Motherland.

 

[Aurora]

Russians keep dying and Russian facilities and naval assets keep getting blown up. Dying for Putin's dream of his empire.

 

[lwf]

Russia is whipping up the story that the Moscow shooting was Ukrainian. Putin is fueling his dupes to prepare for security lockdowns, mass mobilization and lots of dead Russians dying in Ukraine. For the Motherland.

That is exactly what this blaming Ukraine and the West thing is for. The "Ukrainian/US terrorist attack" narrative is meant for one audience, and once audience alone: The Russian people. Putin now has the cudgel he needs to conscript Russian citizens for the Ukrainian meat grinder under the banner of "defending the homeland" from their much more powerful NATO-backed enemy.

NATO has an opportunity here. Shore up Ukrainian defenses in preparation for the inevitable Russian push, and they can call Putin's bluff. 500,000 more dead Russians, (and not just criminals conscripted out of the prison systems, but the sons of wealthy Russian families this time) would weaken Putin considerably.

 

[Tigerace117]

That is exactly what this blaming Ukraine and the West thing is for. The "Ukrainian/US terrorist attack" narrative is meant for one audience, and once audience alone: The Russian people. Putin now has the cudgel he needs to conscript Russian citizens for the Ukrainian meat grinder under the banner of "defending the homeland" from their much more powerful NATO-backed enemy.

NATO has an opportunity here. Shore up Ukrainian defenses in preparation for the inevitable Russian push, and they can call Putin's bluff. 500,000 more dead Russians, (and not just criminals conscripted out of the prison systems, but the sons of wealthy Russian families this time) would weaken Putin considerably.

Given the Ukrainians haven’t even remotely close close to killing 500,000 Russian troops in over two years of fighting that’s a rather absurd fantasy.

 

[Aurora]

That is exactly what this blaming Ukraine and the West thing is for. The "Ukrainian/US terrorist attack" narrative is meant for one audience, and once audience alone: The Russian people. Putin now has the cudgel he needs to conscript Russian citizens for the Ukrainian meat grinder under the banner of "defending the homeland" from their much more powerful NATO-backed enemy.

NATO has an opportunity here. Shore up Ukrainian defenses in preparation for the inevitable Russian push, and they can call Putin's bluff. 500,000 more dead Russians, (and not just criminals conscripted out of the prison systems, but the sons of wealthy Russian families this time) would weaken Putin considerably.

Smells like 1999 Ryazan apartment bombs . Putin would kill or allow to be killed for his political ambitions.

 

[lwf]

Smells like 1999 Ryazan apartment bombs . Putin would kill or allow to be killed for his political ambitions.

I wouldn't put it past him.

 

[Aurora]

I wouldn't put it past him.

There is the high possibility it is Isis. Russia and islam have long and murky ties.

 

[Rich2018]

Europe better gear up for war. This is on their border.

The Ukraine is in Europe.

 

[Rich2018]

I think whether there's a World War Three depends just as much on how the behavior of the West as it does Russia.

Errr...who started the invasion of the Ukraine ?

 

[Tangmo]

The Ukraine is in Europe.

Stop the presses!

We have Breaking News.

Ukraine is in Europe!

Dang! Who knew?

Sort of Eurasia actually. Cyrillic alphabet and all that that's included. Oriented toward Europe and America for sure.

 

[Rich2018]

Stop the presses!

We have Breaking News.

Ukraine is in Europe!

Dang! Who knew?

Sort of Eurasia actually. Cyrillic alphabet and all that that's included. Oriented toward Europe and America for sure.

Now you just need to convince Aurora.

 

[Tangmo]

Now you just need to convince Aurora.

I have no need of anything by your sophomoric posts.

 

[Rich2018]

I have no need of anything by your sophomoric posts.

You're prepared to allow him to live in ignorance with regard to European geography ?

I guess so while you extract satisfaction from reading your thesaurus.

 

[Tangmo]

You're prepared to allow him to live in ignorance with regard to European geography ?

I guess so while you extract satisfaction from reading your thesaurus.

I am no one's keeper.

Or supervisor.

Neither am I self appointed.

 

[Rich2018]

I am no one's keeper.

Or supervisor.

Neither am I self appointed.

So you can't be bothered to reply to his post to convey this simple message....yet are more than happy to reply to mine to convey some ambiguous message known only to yourself.

 

[Tangmo]

Errr...who started the invasion of the Ukraine ?

Google is your friend.

 

[Rich2018]

Google is your friend.

But seemingly not yours.