Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist admits to raping woman during Oct 7 attack

[venice_ca]

Repeat after me: Hamas is responsible for its actions.
Trying to blame Israel for being invaded and having its citizens raped, murdered and kidnapped is just the latest in this pathetic charade by people who identify with sheer evil.

PLEASE DO NOT OMIT THE REST OF MY ORIGINAL COMMENTS IN AN ATTEMPT TO TWIST MY MEANING.

The ICJ is again ordering Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza; no starvation as a weapon of war. Israel is indeed responsible for civilian deaths in Gaza due to lack of sufficient nutrition and potable water. @lwf can try to claim that Hamas is responsible for all deaths in Gaza since 10/7, but those statements are simply untrue.

Israel is responsible for its actions.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

And since 10/7?
The ICJ disagrees with you.
The ICJ has ordered unhindered aid to Gaza at scale, and orders Israel to prevent genocide. Given the starvation that is currently strangling Gaza, and that Israel allows only a trickle of humanitarian aid to enter by land routes (the most efficient method of delivery), Israel is indeed responsible for civilian deaths in Gaza. Lack of sufficient nutrition, lack of potable water, lack of medicines, lack of functioning hospitals — all under direct Israeli control — are the responsibility of Israel.

The ICJ is again ordering Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza; no starvation as a weapon of war. Israel is indeed responsible for civilian deaths in Gaza due to lack of sufficient nutrition and potable water.

The ICJ is a neonazi group. Who cares what they say?

There is no genocide going on in Gaza in the first place.

@lwf can try to claim that Hamas is responsible for all deaths in Gaza since 10/7, but those statements are simply untrue.
Israel is responsible for its actions.

That is incorrect. The Palestinians are responsible for this war.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

There will probably be many people saying that it doesn't justify the mass murder and total destruction of Gaza that has occurred since though.

The only murderers here are the Palestinians. All Israel is doing is defending themselves.

it isn't self-defense.

That is incorrect. Israel is waging a just war of self defense.

Yes, we know that there are some people who think ethnic cleansing is acceptable.

The only people who are trying to commit ethnic cleansing are the Palestinians.

You support the mass murder of women and children.

The only murderers here are the Palestinians.

I have a bachelors degree in history.

What the US did in Dresden should be universally criticized,

With a degree in history, you should know that the Dresden firestorm was caused by the UK.

same for dropping the atomic bombs.

There is no justification for any such criticism. We bombed military targets at the height of the most brutal war in history.

Much of what we did during WWII was wrong.

No it wasn't.

Just because firebombing Dresden and nuking Japan are big parts of why we won the war, doesn't mean we were justified in doing them.

As noted above, we were not the ones who burned Dresden.

We were fully justified in dropping atomic bombs on military targets.

That's what soldiers do in wartime. They attack military targets.

What Israel is doing right now isn't justified. There is no justifying it, and bringing up history is just a way to avoid trying to justify what is happening right now.

That is incorrect. Israel has the same right to defend themselves that everyone else has.

Israel is not acting in self-defense.

Yes they are.

They are ethnically cleansing Gaza.
It is a process that they were working on before October 7. October 7 just gave them an excuse to do it faster.

The Palestinians are the only people here who are trying to engage in ethnic cleansing.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Israel is not acting in self-defense.

Because you say so? I promise you they feel quite differently on the subject.

They are ethnically cleansing Gaza.

Again, the metrics do not support that argument. Even taking Hamas' numbers of 42K dead that is less than 1% of the 2 million Arabic "Palestinians" in Gaza. That isn't "ethnic cleansing". That's war.

It is a process that they were working on before October 7. October 7 just gave them an excuse to do it faster.

I would not suggest the administration of Netanyahu has been acting in good faith toward Hamas, but neither has Hamas toward Israel. Hamas fired the first shot in this round. Israel responded. That is simply factual and there is no denying of that fact.

 

[holbritter]

Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist admits to raping woman during Oct 7 attack - I24NEWS

During an interrogation by a IDF intelligence officer, the PIJ naval operative describes in graphic details the sexual violence committed and the murder of civilians - Click the link for more details.

www.i24news.tv

Israel has thousands of Hamas/PIJ/other terrorists locked up and jailed captured since October 7.
In its history Israel hasn't executed anyone aside of Adolf Eichmann. It must change it and execute all of those monsters, they cannot live to see the day they are released in some future deal again.

Agreed

 

[zincwarrior]

Ultimately the tragedy of Oct 7 occurred because Bibi & Co. ignored the intelligence warning of a coming Hamas attack.

I would proffer that ultimately occurred because of several thousand sick bastard terrorists.

 

[lwf]

Here's your chance to clarify things then. How did Hamas get to the point they had the money to get the resources, the money to buy materials for tunnels and then build them?
The spaghetti monster snapped its spaghetti tentacles under Israel's nose and suddenly they were in existence?

Hamas got to the point where they had the means to invade Israel because Israel didn't eliminate them when they had the chance. Israel didn't eliminate Hamas when it had the chance because Hamas was embedded into the civilian population of Gaza. Such a campaign was bound to kill thousands of civilians in the process, and Israel preferred not to invoke international ire from left wing pundits who can't think further than one step ahead. When Hamas then invaded Israel on 10/7, as was inevitable, they forced Israel's hand. Now Israel can't afford not to get rid of Hamas, where before 10/7, it was viewed as not worth the price. They are between a rock and a hard place and have chosen the lesser of two evils.

Would the better course of action have been to attack Gaza before Hamas was so well fortified? Perhaps. Israel would have probably completed its invasion and removal of the antisemitic terrorist organization by now, or come damn close. But would it have been worth the ire of the notoriously antisemitic United Nations? Who knows? At least now they have the backing of the more sensible United States. The US likely wouldn't have supported an Israeli invasion of Gaza prior to 10/7.

 

[lwf]

And since 10/7?

The ICJ disagrees with you.

The ICJ is notoriously antisemitic. Since 10/7, Hamas is responsible for 99.99% of the civilian casualties in Gaza. Where war crimes are committed by Israeli soldiers, Israeli soldiers are responsible for those deaths and should be held accountable, but 99.99% of the civilian casualties in Gaza are not Israeli war crimes. They are Hamas war crimes, because it is a war crime for combatants to use civilians as human shields.

The ICJ has ordered unhindered aid to Gaza at scale, and orders Israel to prevent genocide. Given the starvation that is currently strangling Gaza, and that Israel allows only a trickle of humanitarian aid to enter by land routes (the most efficient method of delivery), Israel is indeed responsible for civilian deaths in Gaza. Lack of sufficient nutrition, lack of potable water, lack of medicines, lack of functioning hospitals — all under direct Israeli control — are the responsibility of Israel.

That's fundamentally false. It is Hamas' responsibility. They should have planned for this before they declared war on a neighbor with a more capable military. Hamas is responsible for Gazan civilians safety and security. Not Israel.

 

[lwf]

If he did wouldn't there be 2mm dead Gazans now? All they had to do was kill the water supplies.

Of course. If Israel wanted to commit genocide in Gaza, it would be child's play to do so. They have multiple tools at their disposal to wipe out all Palestinians civilians in Gaza.

 

[lwf]

PLEASE DO NOT OMIT THE REST OF MY ORIGINAL COMMENTS IN AN ATTEMPT TO TWIST MY MEANING.

The ICJ is again ordering Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza; no starvation as a weapon of war. Israel is indeed responsible for civilian deaths in Gaza due to lack of sufficient nutrition and potable water. @lwf can try to claim that Hamas is responsible for all deaths in Gaza since 10/7, but those statements are simply untrue.

Israel is responsible for its actions.

This is incorrect. According to the Geneva Conventions and the laws of warfare, the deaths of civilians who are being used by terrorists as human shields against legitimate military strikes are the responsibility of the terrorists, not the military that engages in the strike. This is a fundamental truth of war. If you commit a terrorist act and hide in a bunker with your family, and the victim of your terrorist attack blows you and your children up with a bunker busting missile, the deaths of your children are YOUR responsibility. NOT the responsibility of your victim.

The left's tendency to blame the victim is why terrorists use human shields. Your failure to place the blame where it belongs is exactly why terrorists use human shields in the first place. They get a strategic benefit from it because of naive, sheltered western civilians whose hearts are bigger than their brains and whose uninformed opinions sadly have outsized influence over the lives of people on the other side of the planet.

 

[venice_ca]

The ICJ is notoriously antisemitic. Since 10/7, Hamas is responsible for 99.99% of the civilian casualties in Gaza. Where war crimes are committed by Israeli soldiers, Israeli soldiers are responsible for those deaths and should be held accountable, but 99.99% of the civilian casualties in Gaza are not Israeli war crimes. They are Hamas war crimes, because it is a war crime for combatants to use civilians as human shields.



That's fundamentally false. It is Hamas' responsibility. They should have planned for this before they declared war on a neighbor with a more capable military. Hamas is responsible for Gazan civilians safety and security. Not Israel.

The ICJ has charged Israel twice with the responsibility of preventing genocide [by starvation] in Gaza — once in January 2024, and again in March 2024.

The International Court of Justice has made its decision based on evidence presented, and updates, around South Africa’s charges of genocide being committed by Israel in Gaza.

Israel has the right to defend itself, but not to starve civilians in Gaza.

 

[venice_ca]

This is incorrect. According to the Geneva Conventions and the laws of warfare, the deaths of civilians who are being used by terrorists as human shields against legitimate military strikes are the responsibility of the terrorists, not the military that engages in the strike. This is a fundamental truth of war. If you commit a terrorist act and hide in a bunker with your family, and the victim of your terrorist attack blows you and your children up with a bunker busting missile, the deaths of your children are YOUR responsibility. NOT the responsibility of your victim.

The left's tendency to blame the victim is why terrorists use human shields. Your failure to place the blame where it belongs is exactly why terrorists use human shields in the first place. They get a strategic benefit from it because of naive, sheltered western civilians whose hearts are bigger than their brains and whose uninformed opinions sadly have outsized influence over the lives of people on the other side of the planet.

The ICJ has ruled that Israel does not have the right to starve civilians in Gaza. This is the current issue, a holdover from the January 2024 decision. A second ICJ announcement would not have been needed if Israel had allowed sufficient humanitarian aid to enter Gaza after the original ruling two months ago.

Israel has the right to defend itself, but not by starving civilians in Gaza.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, as my father used to say. Hamas is wrong with its terrorist attacks against Israel; Israel is wrong with its collective punishment of civilians in Gaza.

 

[bomberfox]

Hamas got to the point where they had the means to invade Israel because Israel didn't eliminate them when they had the chance. Israel didn't eliminate Hamas when it had the chance because Hamas was embedded into the civilian population of Gaza. Such a campaign was bound to kill thousands of civilians in the process, and Israel preferred not to invoke international ire from left wing pundits who can't think further than one step ahead. When Hamas then invaded Israel on 10/7, as was inevitable, they forced Israel's hand. Now Israel can't afford not to get rid of Hamas, where before 10/7, it was viewed as not worth the price. They are between a rock and a hard place and have chosen the lesser of two evils.

Would the better course of action have been to attack Gaza before Hamas was so well fortified? Perhaps. Israel would have probably completed its invasion and removal of the antisemitic terrorist organization by now, or come damn close. But would it have been worth the ire of the notoriously antisemitic United Nations? Who knows? At least now they have the backing of the more sensible United States. The US likely wouldn't have supported an Israeli invasion of Gaza prior to 10/7.

To attack Hamas training grounds before this happened. Its not like Hamas was training in secret.this is excuse making for netanyahu. Hamas was training for this out in the open but more land grabs in the west bank was more important it seems.

 

[Irredentist]

It is most unfortunate but those who would argue that are not students of history with an knowledge of what has occurred in other periods during times when war was being conducted.

The bombing of Dresden in Feb. 1945 (13-15) by elements of the British and US air commands during WW2 leveled the city and produced over 25.000 deaths, and that was only over three days.

We dropped two atomic weapons on Japan that is estimated to have caused between 129K and 226K deaths. Mostly civilian. We readily justify that and I believe a strong case can be made for it, given the number of Japanese lives saved if that bombing had not caused Japanese capitulation and they had fought to a bloody end as was readily exampled they would have on other islands taken on the road to US victory in the Pacific an invasion of Japan would have cost. Estimates are at 500 thousand just for US troop. Japan may have been countless more.

Only two example we, ourselves, were involved in. To think that was OK but call out Israel for what it is doing is hypocritical.

www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458943/1945-bombings-of-dresden/#:~:text=Between%2013-15%20February%201945,which%20engulfed%20the%20city's%20center.

So what you're saying is that if Israel dropped an atom bomb on Gaza to end the war fast, that would be justified?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

To attack Hamas training grounds before this happened. Its not like Hamas was training in secret.this is excuse making for netanyahu. Hamas was training for this out in the open but more land grabs in the west bank was more important it seems.

One couldn’t say. I think it’s just as possible, with Bibi’s legal troubles, that it was allowed to progress without interference before it happened so he had an issue to delay his court problems. Is not for nothing I call Netanyahu the Donald Trump of Israel.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

So what you're saying is that if Israel dropped an atom bomb on Gaza to end the war fast, that would be justified?

You know precisely what I’m saying and that was’t it. I’ve reiterated it twice now.

What I said was that in war we do things in self-defense that are terrible in response to terrible. That this is how people work. There are plenty of examples. That it is a tad hypocritical for a citizen of a country that has done so itself, and gave two examples.

Now please don’t ask me to explain it again. Thanks.

 

[bomberfox]

One couldn’t say. I think it’s just as possible, with Bibi’s legal troubles, that it was allowed to progress without interference before it happened so he had an issue to delay his court problems. Is not for nothing I call Netanyahu the Donald Trump of Israel.

This we agree with.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Hamas got to the point where they had the means to invade Israel because Israel didn't eliminate them when they had the chance. Israel didn't eliminate Hamas when it had the chance because Hamas was embedded into the civilian population of Gaza.

Wrong.
You really have wrapped yourself in the kool-aid of only one side being responsible for why Hamas is where it is. I gave you plenty of clues if you were serious by talking about the money and you ignored it.

Hint, it's not just the Qatari suitcases packed with cash - someone needed it to do that. If you are honest, you'll come back with why and not more lies you swallowed.

 

[lwf]

The ICJ has ruled that Israel does not have the right to starve civilians in Gaza. This is the current issue, a holdover from the January 2024 decision. A second ICJ announcement would not have been needed if Israel had allowed sufficient humanitarian aid to enter Gaza after the original ruling two months ago.

Israel has the right to defend itself, but not by starving civilians in Gaza.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, as my father used to say. Hamas is wrong with its terrorist attacks against Israel; Israel is wrong with its collective punishment of civilians in Gaza.

Israel is not intentionally starving civilians in Gaza. This is an unintended consequence of Hamas' war against Israel, and is Hamas' responsibility. The ICJ is wrong, and its credibility is marred by a history of antisemitism.

Israel should do whatever it can to help the innocent victims of Hamas in Gaza. But it is not Israel's responsibility to do so. Israel isn't "committing genocide." Hamas is the party responsible for the situation in Gaza.

 

[lwf]

To attack Hamas training grounds before this happened. Its not like Hamas was training in secret.this is excuse making for netanyahu. Hamas was training for this out in the open but more land grabs in the west bank was more important it seems.

I don't necessarily disagree. Invading Gaza in 2022 would certainly have been better from a military perspective. But there were political ramifications of a unilateral invasion of Gaza to consider. I'd imagine that, in hindsight, given the Western response to Israel's invasion even after a Gazan terrorist attack on Israeli soil, Israel is thinking at this point that they might as well have invaded two years ago. They would probably have gotten a similar response from the UN anyway, and Biden wouldn't have to tread lightly with US support during an election year in the face of left-wing Hamas sympathizers.

 

[lwf]

Wrong.
You really have wrapped yourself in the kool-aid of only one side being responsible for why Hamas is where it is. I gave you plenty of clues if you were serious by talking about the money and you ignored it.

Hint, it's not just the Qatari suitcases packed with cash - someone needed it to do that. If you are honest, you'll come back with why and not more lies you swallowed.

You gave me "clues?" Qatari suitcases packed with cash? Could you be more vague? I get the impression that you are dangling some implied narrative that you think everyone should be aware of, and anyone who doesn't pick up what you're putting down isn't worth your breath. That's a useful tactic to make yourself seem mysterious and like someone who is "in the know," but it isn't a rational argument.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

You gave me "clues?" Qatari suitcases packed with cash? Could you be more vague? I get the impression that you are dangling some implied narrative that you think everyone should be aware of, and anyone who doesn't pick up what you're putting down isn't worth your breath. That's a useful tactic to make yourself seem mysterious and like someone who is "in the know," but it isn't a rational argument.

If it's proven too hard for you

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

Basically, if you haven't got the time or inclination to read them; Netanyahu has opposed the peace process from th start and that's not just the last 10 years. He undermined the Oslo accords and is proud of that.

PM: I’m proud I blocked a Palestinian state. Looking at Gaza, everyone sees what would have happened

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

So what are the Oslo accords? They are when the PLO recognised Israel's right to exist and accepted the path of peace with Israel.

Why is this important? Because people like you repeat the phrase "if only the Palestinians would accept Israel's right to exist and work peacefully with Israel."

You do it because you read other people say the same thing but you don't question anything about the Palestinian Authority that was deliberately undermined so that Hamas could become strong.

You have zero interest in why Netanyahu has done this, you have zero interest in arabs living peacefully alongside Israel.
Your reply will prove this. I would put money on it and win, you'll find some way to continue in future threads to blame the arabs and you will also ignore that since Oslo, Israel's settlers (many wearing IDF uniform or even protected by IDF soldiers) continue to build illegally on the West Bank.

 

[lwf]

If it's proven too hard for you

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

Basically, if you haven't got the time or inclination to read them; Netanyahu has opposed the peace process from th start and that's not just the last 10 years. He undermined the Oslo accords and is proud of that.

PM: I’m proud I blocked a Palestinian state. Looking at Gaza, everyone sees what would have happened

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

So what are the Oslo accords? They are when the PLO recognised Israel's right to exist and accepted the path of peace with Israel.

Why is this important? Because people like you repeat the phrase "if only the Palestinians would accept Israel's right to exist and work peacefully with Israel."

You do it because you read other people say the same thing but you don't question anything about the Palestinian Authority that was deliberately undermined so that Hamas could become strong.

You have zero interest in why Netanyahu has done this, you have zero interest in arabs living peacefully alongside Israel.
Your reply will prove this. I would put money on it and win, you'll find some way to continue in future threads to blame the arabs and you will also ignore that since Oslo, Israel's settlers (many wearing IDF uniform or even protected by IDF soldiers) continue to build illegally on the West Bank.

I don't blame Arabs. I blame Hamas, which was founded with the purpose of killing or driving out every last Jew from historic Palestinian lands and has doubled down on this even after their terrorist attack against civilians on 10/7.

I don't argue that Israel is a blameless angel that does everything right and only wants to live and let live. I argue that, regardless of how little Israel may have been committed to the peace process, it is entirely impossible for Israel to have peace with Hamas no matter what they did or didn't do. Hamas is an antisemitic terrorist organization. Full stop. Israel's historic bad behavior is bad. They have earned your criticism for it. But Hamas has to go, and a military invasion of Gaza with overwhelming force is the best way to do it. Netanyahu bears responsibility for much of the anti-zionist sentiment in the middle east and the West. But he made the right decision on 10/7. What is happening in Gaza is Hamas' fault. Not Israel's or Netanyahu's.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I don't blame Arabs. I blame Hamas, which was founded with the purpose of killing or driving out every last Jew from historic Palestinian lands and has doubled down on this even after their terrorist attack against civilians on 10/7.

I don't argue that Israel is a blameless angel that does everything right and only wants to live and let live. I argue that, regardless of how little Israel may have been committed to the peace process, it is entirely impossible for Israel to have peace with Hamas no matter what they did or didn't do. Hamas is an antisemitic terrorist organization. Full stop. Israel's historic bad behavior is bad. They have earned your criticism for it. But Hamas has to go,

Well well, you surprised me there.
Thank you. I have no disagreement with any of the part I quoted.

What is happening in Gaza is Hamas' fault.

and that I can agree with. This could all end quickly if Hamas surrendered but they are hiding behind kidnap victims and innocent Gazans.

 

[venice_ca]

Israel is not intentionally starving civilians in Gaza. This is an unintended consequence of Hamas' war against Israel, and is Hamas' responsibility. The ICJ is wrong, and its credibility is marred by a history of antisemitism.

Israel should do whatever it can to help the innocent victims of Hamas in Gaza. But it is not Israel's responsibility to do so. Israel isn't "committing genocide." Hamas is the party responsible for the situation in Gaza.

The ICJ stated that Israel is responsible for there being sufficient humanitarian aid for Gaza civilians — food, potable water, medical aid, and shelter. This order was issued in January 2024.

Under international law, the occupier has a responsibility to the civilian population — and Israel is not fulfilling those responsibilities.

Starvation is an intended consequence as Israel has ignored the previous order from the ICJ to allow humanitarian aid to enter Gaza.

How is the ICJ anti-Semitic if the same international law is applied to all cases brought before that court?