Our diseased democracy

[haymarket]

Lyrics from Simon & Garfunkel's MRS ROBINSON

Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon
Going to the candidates' debate
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose
[FONT=Roboto, arial, Noto Sans Japanese, sans-serif]Every way you look at this you lose[/FONT]

[FONT=Roboto, arial, Noto Sans Japanese, sans-serif]I am convinced that next Tuesday, America will lose no matter if Clinton or Trump emerges [/FONT][FONT=Roboto, arial, Noto Sans Japanese, sans-serif]victorious. And it is but a symptom of a disease that has infected our democracy ...(and please spare me the argument about if we have a democracy or a republic).

If Clinton wins, she is badly damaged goods. The republicans will investigate her yet again and the House - no matter if the Dems take the Senate or not - will only double down on the gridlock they dealt out to Obama. She has precious little chance of getting anything done with them.

If Trump wins, the least qualified man in a good century becomes the leader of the free world and there is little doubt his demons will spell only disaster for the nation as even his republican allies will desert him in short order when he has no strong hand to rein his negative inclinations in. And make no mistake about it - his negative inclinations are legion and will control him.

The Supreme Court vacancy will go unfilled and the battle over it will be a national embarrassment bordering on disgrace fully illustrating the failure of our system and the extent to which hyper partisanship has damaged the body politic.

The major problems of the nation will go untended to and we will only get worse.

I used to teach from an American history text that labeled the chapter on the 1850's as The Failure of the Politicians. And we know what followed.

It appears theat history does indeed repeat itself if only in a different disguise and costume which appears new and different only to the uninformed.

Woe is us. [/FONT]

 

[LowDown]

Lyrics from Simon & Garfunkel's MRS ROBINSON

Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon
Going to the candidates' debate
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose
[FONT=Roboto, arial, Noto Sans Japanese, sans-serif]Every way you look at this you lose[/FONT]

[FONT=Roboto, arial, Noto Sans Japanese, sans-serif]I am convinced that next Tuesday, America will lose no matter if Clinton or Trump emerges [/FONT][FONT=Roboto, arial, Noto Sans Japanese, sans-serif]victorious. And it is but a symptom of a disease that has infected our democracy ...(and please spare me the argument about if we have a democracy or a republic).

If Clinton wins, she is badly damaged goods. The republicans will investigate her yet again and the House - no matter if the Dems take the Senate or not - will only double down on the gridlock they dealt out to Obama. She has precious little chance of getting anything done with them.

If Trump wins, the least qualified man in a good century becomes the leader of the free world and there is little doubt his demons will spell only disaster for the nation as even his republican allies will desert him in short order when he has no strong hand to rein his negative inclinations in. And make no mistake about it - his negative inclinations are legion and will control him.

The Supreme Court vacancy will go unfilled and the battle over it will be a national embarrassment bordering on disgrace fully illustrating the failure of our system and the extent to which hyper partisanship has damaged the body politic.

The major problems of the nation will go untended to and we will only get worse.

I used to teach from an American history text that labeled the chapter on the 1850's as The Failure of the Politicians. And we know what followed.

It appears theat history does indeed repeat itself if only in a different disguise and costume which appears new and different only to the uninformed.

Woe is us. [/FONT]

That's rich. Hillary is just this poor little woman set to be victimized by the bad old Republicans. She has no responsibility at all for the situation she's in.

And no doubt Trump, if he wins, will be totally responsible for the lack of cooperation he faces from the elites in Washington, DC.

I don't think it's possible be more one sided and tendentious. I guess that half of the facts are just invisible. It must be difficult to function in the real world thinking that way.

 

[haymarket]

That's rich. Hillary is just this poor little woman set to be victimized by the bad old Republicans. She has no responsibility at all for the situation she's in.

Perhaps you missed the words where I described Clinton as BADLY DAMAGED GOODS?

 

[eohrnberger]

That's rich. Hillary is just this poor little woman set to be victimized by the bad old Republicans. She has no responsibility at all for the situation she's in.

And no doubt Trump, if he wins, will be totally responsible for the lack of cooperation he faces from the elites in Washington, DC.

I don't think it's possible be more one sided and tendentious. I guess that half of the facts are just invisible. It must be difficult to function in the real world thinking that way.

Quite true. If there's any consistency to Hillary's performance it's in her consistently bad judgement and decision making process, nearly always leading to bad results.

Her current FBI entanglements are strictly the result of her bad judgement and decision in setting up her own private server, and then lying about it. Sort of how Bill's bad judgement in fooling around with an intern, and then lying about that too. It just must run in that family. But I hope it passes up Chelsea.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Quite true. If there's any consistency to Hillary's performance it's in her consistently bad judgement and decision making process, nearly always leading to bad results.

Her current FBI entanglements are strictly the result of her bad judgement and decision in setting up her own private server, and then lying about it. Sort of how Bill's bad judgement in fooling around with an intern, and then lying about that too. It just must run in that family. But I hope it passes up Chelsea.

Yet her sheeple will give her a 100% free pass. Crooked? Corrupt? Evil? About to be indicted? Nevermind...didja hear Trump said the "n-word" yesterday? UNELECTABLE!!

 

[Mycroft]

Perhaps you missed the words where I described Clinton as BADLY DAMAGED GOODS?

Dude...Hillary isn't "BADLY DAMAGED GOODS". She is the disease.

 

[Casper]

That's rich. Hillary is just this poor little woman set to be victimized by the bad old Republicans. She has no responsibility at all for the situation she's in.

And no doubt Trump, if he wins, will be totally responsible for the lack of cooperation he faces from the elites in Washington, DC.

I don't think it's possible be more one sided and tendentious. I guess that half of the facts are just invisible. It must be difficult to function in the real world thinking that way.

You missed the Point.

 

[eohrnberger]

Yet her sheeple will give her a 100% free pass. Crooked? Corrupt? Evil? About to be indicted? Nevermind...didja hear Trump said the "n-word" yesterday? UNELECTABLE!!

Yeah, I know a few of her sheeple. That's pretty much what they are like. There are some around here too, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[eohrnberger]

Dude...Hillary isn't "BADLY DAMAGED GOODS". She is the disease.

True. The disease she carries is corruption along with a bad dose of bad judgement and poor decision making.
Wwoeful for the nation the day she drags those things into the White House.

 

[jet57]

And not a reasoned or well thought out reply among them.

 

[Brewdog]

When did the US switch to being a democracy?

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/democracy-versus-liberty
"Most people, including most Americans, would be surprised to learn that the word “democracy” does not appear in the Declaration of Independence (1776) or the Constitution of the United States of America (1789). They would also be shocked to learn the reason for the absence of the word democracy in the founding documents of the U.S.A. Contrary to what propaganda has led the public to believe, America’s Founding Fathers were skeptical and anxious about democracy. They were aware of the evils that accompany a tyranny of the majority. The Framers of the Constitution went to great lengths to ensure that the federal government was not based on the will of the majority and was not, therefore, democratic."

 

[Kal'Stang]

Lyrics from Simon & Garfunkel's MRS ROBINSON

Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon
Going to the candidates' debate
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose
Every way you look at this you lose

I am convinced that next Tuesday, America will lose no matter if Clinton or Trump emerges victorious. And it is but a symptom of a disease that has infected our democracy ...(and please spare me the argument about if we have a democracy or a republic).

If Clinton wins, she is badly damaged goods. The republicans will investigate her yet again and the House - no matter if the Dems take the Senate or not - will only double down on the gridlock they dealt out to Obama. She has precious little chance of getting anything done with them.

If Trump wins, the least qualified man in a good century becomes the leader of the free world and there is little doubt his demons will spell only disaster for the nation as even his republican allies will desert him in short order when he has no strong hand to rein his negative inclinations in. And make no mistake about it - his negative inclinations are legion and will control him.

The Supreme Court vacancy will go unfilled and the battle over it will be a national embarrassment bordering on disgrace fully illustrating the failure of our system and the extent to which hyper partisanship has damaged the body politic.

The major problems of the nation will go untended to and we will only get worse.

I used to teach from an American history text that labeled the chapter on the 1850's as The Failure of the Politicians. And we know what followed.

It appears theat history does indeed repeat itself if only in a different disguise and costume which appears new and different only to the uninformed.

Woe is us.

I can't help but notice that in your entire post you don't lay one bit of blame on Hillary herself. You claim she is "badly damaged goods" but then go on to blame Republican's in the same line. Implying that its not really her fault but that of Republican's. This is what is called a "give and take" argument. You give just enough to imply bi-partisan motive but take just enough to lay the blame elsewhere.

And so what if the SCOTUS seat goes unfilled? It wouldn't be the first time in our history that SCOTUS has had an even number of judges on the panel. It hurts nothing and no one.

As for the "major problems of the nation"...well, what exactly are those problems that you want addressed? Maybe what you consider "problems" aren't other peoples idea's of "problems"? Or maybe they want different things addressed before others? There are so many variables in your statement here that its almost meaningless.

Rest is personal anecdote and opinions. Not worth responding to beyond this.

 

[Kal'Stang]

And not a reasoned or well thought out reply among them.

And you've done better? The irony of your post is palatable.

 

[Brewdog]

And so what if the SCOTUS seat goes unfilled? It wouldn't be the first time in our history that SCOTUS has had an even number of judges on the panel. It hurts nothing and no one.

But then it sucks to have a tie vote. It's like watching soccer when the final score is 0-0 and nobody won. Which is, I suppose, why Americans don't get into soccer as much; we like for there to be a winner and a loser.

 

[Kal'Stang]

But then it sucks to have a tie vote. It's like watching soccer when the final score is 0-0 and nobody won. Which is, I suppose, why Americans don't get into soccer as much; we like for there to be a winner and a loser.

Not really. All that happens is the lower courts decision stands. I agree with the rest of your post though. Personally though I think that its nothing more than a political talking point for those that want to manipulate people that don't know the actual process.

 

[Brewdog]

Not really. All that happens is the lower courts decision stands. I agree with the rest of your post though. Personally though I think that its nothing more than a political talking point for those that want to manipulate people that don't know the actual process.

The problem arises when the appellate circuits disagree with one another. You'll end up with a disparity in how civil and criminal cases are handled in California as from how they're handled in Georgia. And those are the legal disputes that the US Supreme Court are supposed to resolve.

 

[calamity]

Lyrics from Simon & Garfunkel's MRS ROBINSON

Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon
Going to the candidates' debate
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose
[FONT=Roboto, arial, Noto Sans Japanese, sans-serif]Every way you look at this you lose[/FONT]

[FONT=Roboto, arial, Noto Sans Japanese, sans-serif]I am convinced that next Tuesday, America will lose no matter if Clinton or Trump emerges [/FONT][FONT=Roboto, arial, Noto Sans Japanese, sans-serif]victorious. And it is but a symptom of a disease that has infected our democracy ...(and please spare me the argument about if we have a democracy or a republic).

If Clinton wins, she is badly damaged goods. The republicans will investigate her yet again and the House - no matter if the Dems take the Senate or not - will only double down on the gridlock they dealt out to Obama. She has precious little chance of getting anything done with them.

If Trump wins, the least qualified man in a good century becomes the leader of the free world and there is little doubt his demons will spell only disaster for the nation as even his republican allies will desert him in short order when he has no strong hand to rein his negative inclinations in. And make no mistake about it - his negative inclinations are legion and will control him.

The Supreme Court vacancy will go unfilled and the battle over it will be a national embarrassment bordering on disgrace fully illustrating the failure of our system and the extent to which hyper partisanship has damaged the body politic.

The major problems of the nation will go untended to and we will only get worse.

I used to teach from an American history text that labeled the chapter on the 1850's as The Failure of the Politicians. And we know what followed.

It appears theat history does indeed repeat itself if only in a different disguise and costume which appears new and different only to the uninformed.

Woe is us. [/FONT]

I don't know. I'm a bit more optimistic.

If Hillary loses, the DNC will purge her and all the horses she rode in on from the party. Think of it as cutting out a tumor. And, I make no bones about this. The Clintons are a freaking tumor within the DNC.

It is because of the Clinton effort that there were no exciting young Democrats running for president this time around. Clinton and her machine made sure no Obama popped out of the woodwork to foil her plans. If she loses to the Buffoon, she will have empowered all her enemies, and she will be persona non grata in the party.

On the GOP side, if Trump wins, there will be civil war in the GOP as the factions fight to maintain power. The money side--think Koch Bros and all those in the investor class---will battle the redneck deplorables, who are really quite socialist, albeit with a racist bent, pro guns and the flag waving. The people getting rich on globalization will be at war with the people who expect $30 an hour low skilled jobs to return. It will be great.

If Clinton wins...status quo. Trump goes back to reality TV and the Clintons go back to pillaging from the Oval Orifice.

 

[eohrnberger]

I don't know. I'm a bit more optimistic.

If Hillary loses, the DNC will purge her and all the horses she rode in on from the party. Think of it as cutting out a tumor. And, I make no bones about this. The Clintons are a freaking tumor within the DNC.

Well, we can certainly agree on this point.

It is because of the Clinton effort that there were no exciting young Democrats running for president this time around. Clinton and her machine made sure no Obama popped out of the woodwork to foil her plans. If she loses to the Buffoon, she will have empowered all her enemies, and she will be persona non grata in the party.

Should that be the case, and should that be the response from the DNC, I'd say good on them. But then, the DNC has been revealed as a rather corrupt organization all in it's own right. I kinda figure that Hillary and the DNC deserve each other.

On the GOP side, if Trump wins, there will be civil war in the GOP as the factions fight to maintain power. The money side--think Koch Bros and all those in the investor class---will battle the redneck deplorables, who are really quite socialist, albeit with a racist bent, pro guns and the flag waving. The people getting rich on globalization will be at war with the people who expect $30 an hour low skilled jobs to return. It will be great.

If Clinton wins...status quo. Trump goes back to reality TV and the Clintons go back to pillaging from the Oval Orifice.

I believe that you also need to consider the risk and vulnerability Hill and Bill's ways have left them. Do you really think for a single minute that all those 'donations' to The Clinton Foundation don't have strings attached? Won't be used as leverage against Hillary as POTUS?

**** man! They'll be lining up at the back door of Hillary's White House looking for their 'donations' (investments) paying off with POTUS favors, and she has established a history of selling her office for her own personal gain, via The Clinton Foundation.

Do you really want to further enable that as POTUS? I hardly think that this would be best for the nation.

 

[calamity]

Well, we can certainly agree on this point.

Should that be the case, and should that be the response from the DNC, I'd say good on them. But then, the DNC has been revealed as a rather corrupt organization all in it's own right. I kinda figure that Hillary and the DNC deserve each other.


I believe that you also need to consider the risk and vulnerability Hill and Bill's ways have left them. Do you really think for a single minute that all those 'donations' to The Clinton Foundation don't have strings attached? Won't be used as leverage against Hillary as POTUS?

**** man! They'll be lining up at the back door of Hillary's White House looking for their 'donations' (investments) paying off with POTUS favors, and she has established a history of selling her office for her own personal gain, via The Clinton Foundation.

Do you really want to further enable that as POTUS? I hardly think that this would be best for the nation.

That part of Trump's message was always solid--get the quid pro quo money out of politics. And, as long as Putin and Russian oligarchs are not lining up to curry favor with Trump, it's his best position.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

The problem arises when the appellate circuits disagree with one another. You'll end up with a disparity in how civil and criminal cases are handled in California as from how they're handled in Georgia. And those are the legal disputes that the US Supreme Court are supposed to resolve.

What is wrong with that? The lower court case decisions will stand, perfect. Some will see it as better in Cali, others will see it as better in GA. If it means that much to someone, they can vote with their feet.

Diversity is good and healthy, is it not? Cookie cutter states would be bland. States did not, and should not, give up full sovereignty by becoming united.

 

[Brewdog]

What is wrong with that? The lower court case decisions will stand, perfect. Some will see it as better in Cali, others will see it as better in GA. If it means that much to someone, they can vote with their feet.

Diversity is good and healthy, is it not? Cookie cutter states would be bland. States did not, and should not, give up full sovereignty by becoming united.

Because that's a violation of the 14th Amendment. The federal government can't treat people differently. That's the purpose of the Equal Protection Clause.

 

[Fletch]

I can't help but notice that in your entire post you don't lay one bit of blame on Hillary herself. You claim she is "badly damaged goods" but then go on to blame Republican's in the same line. Implying that its not really her fault but that of Republican's. This is what is called a "give and take" argument. You give just enough to imply bi-partisan motive but take just enough to lay the blame elsewhere.

You beat me to it. According to haymarket, poor Hillary is 'damaged goods' not because she is dishonest, secretive and corrupt, but because republicans are mean to her. Sorry, but 'Hillary the victim' just doesn't wash. Hillary is so disliked and 'damaged' by her own behavior, that a guy like Trump can actually be seen by the public as preferable to her. The majority of the country views her as not honest or trustworthy because, well, she is not honest or trustworthy. Add to that that she is under investigation by the FBI and, yeah, she is 'damaged' alright.

But there is clearly something wrong with our democracy or our party structure or our nominating process or something that has led us to have the two worst candidates for president in American history. And the party that will be the most damaged by this election will be the party who actually wins the election. But the country loses either way.

 

[Fletch]

But then it sucks to have a tie vote. It's like watching soccer when the final score is 0-0 and nobody won. Which is, I suppose, why Americans don't get into soccer as much; we like for there to be a winner and a loser.

Its worse than that though. If republicans are allowed to successfully block Hillary from appointing a SC justice, it wont be an 8 justice court for long. It will be 7. Then 6. And don't believe for a moment that if a republican gets in, dems in the senate will allow him to appoint any justices wither. What you will wind up with at some point is no Supreme Court. And the fact that this idea is being pushed by Mr Constitution Ted Cruz shows he learned nothing in law school.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Because that's a violation of the 14th Amendment. The federal government can't treat people differently. That's the purpose of the Equal Protection Clause.

Don't get me started on the 14th imposter Amendment... besides, the Federal government would not have to treat people different, the states would and should have that ability as they see fit. Don't like it, as stated before, vote with your feet.

 

[Brewdog]

Don't get me started on the 14th imposter Amendment... besides, the Federal government would not have to treat people different, the states would and should have that ability as they see fit. Don't like it, as stated before, vote with your feet.

I'm voting Gary Johnson. I am not part of the problem.

And federal law shouldn't lock people up for one thing in one state and then let them go in another for the same crime.