Omniscience.

[29A]

Since when is "nipping problems in the bud" not a part of omniscience?

Since apologists say so.

Genesis 2:16-17 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Genesis 3:4-5 The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Obviously, there was some disagreement on the meaning of the word "die". Apologists claim that "die" meant a spiritual death, but if it was confusing to the First Couple, why wouldn't an omniscient God have immediately clarified and corrected the what the "snake" had said?

The average dictionary defines die as to cease living; become dead; expire. No indication of any spiritual aspect there.

Due to the results, God lied every bit as much as Obama did when he said, "If you like your health plan, you can keep it". Obama at least had substance in the PPACA's grandfather clause.

The apologists thus invoke Clinton, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. "

 

[joG]

Since when is "nipping problems in the bud" not a part of omniscience?

Since apologists say so.

Genesis 2:16-17 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Genesis 3:4-5 The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Obviously, there was some disagreement on the meaning of the word "die". Apologists claim that "die" meant a spiritual death, but if it was confusing to the First Couple, why wouldn't an omniscient God have immediately clarified and corrected the what the "snake" had said?

The average dictionary defines die as to cease living; become dead; expire. No indication of any spiritual aspect there.

Due to the results, God lied every bit as much as Obama did when he said, "If you like your health plan, you can keep it". Obama at least had substance in the PPACA's grandfather clause.

The apologists thus invoke Clinton, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. "

Maybe the meaning of life is confusion.

 

[29A]

Maybe the meaning of life is confusion.

Possibly, and it has some Biblical support. Ecclesiastes 1:14 I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

Although, and in spite of what happened at the Tower of Babel, God is not supposed to be the author of confusion.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[Tim the plumber]

In defense of God in this case (not my usual stand point) it does not say when she would die but that she would die one day. That is become mortal. Perhaps in the fairyland of Eden Adam and Eve were immortal naked hippies wandering about eating fruit and stuff then got bored with it and wanted more.

 

[Summerwind]

There are so many contradictions in the bible about god's supposed perfection and omniscience that are then totally belied by the stories in the bible. If god was perfect and all-knowing then why put the tree in Eden at all, didn't he know that Eve would eat of it, isn't that what all knowing is?


When I sat down and really read the bible, I found 'god' to be an insecure (needs constant worshipping), egomanical (thinks he's perfect and harms those that don't agree) mass murderer (between plagues and floods, etc, takes his petty anger out on many who did no harm), then he rapes Mary, impregnates her knowing that the son will be crucified at his behest, sort of.

If there is or ever was such an entity as god, and he came down to earth for a few days, I figure he'd be in jail in short order.

 

[29A]

In defense of God in this case (not my usual stand point) it does not say when she would die but that she would die one day. That is become mortal. Perhaps in the fairyland of Eden Adam and Eve were immortal naked hippies wandering about eating fruit and stuff then got bored with it and wanted more.

It kind of does indicate when she would die, "in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Maybe the apologists would like to quibble over the meaning of the word "day", lol.

 

[Paleocon]

There are so many contradictions in the bible about god's supposed perfection and omniscience that are then totally belied by the stories in the bible. If god was perfect and all-knowing then why put the tree in Eden at all, didn't he know that Eve would eat of it, isn't that what all knowing is?


When I sat down and really read the bible, I found 'god' to be an insecure (needs constant worshipping), egomanical (thinks he's perfect and harms those that don't agree) mass murderer (between plagues and floods, etc, takes his petty anger out on many who did no harm), then he rapes Mary, impregnates her knowing that the son will be crucified at his behest, sort of.

If there is or ever was such an entity as god, and he came down to earth for a few days, I figure he'd be in jail in short order.

How are things in la la land?

It kind of does indicate when she would die, "in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Maybe the apologists would like to quibble over the meaning of the word "day", lol.

Maybe you shouldn't assign English definitions to a conversation taking place in who knows what language between beings with the power of instantaneous intellection.

 

[tosca1]

Since when is "nipping problems in the bud" not a part of omniscience?

Since apologists say so.

Genesis 2:16-17 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Genesis 3:4-5 The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Obviously, there was some disagreement on the meaning of the word "die". Apologists claim that "die" meant a spiritual death, but if it was confusing to the First Couple, why wouldn't an omniscient God have immediately clarified and corrected the what the "snake" had said?

The average dictionary defines die as to cease living; become dead; expire. No indication of any spiritual aspect there.

Due to the results, God lied every bit as much as Obama did when he said, "If you like your health plan, you can keep it". Obama at least had substance in the PPACA's grandfather clause.

The apologists thus invoke Clinton, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. "

To die - spiritual death, and physical death.


When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, sin entered into the world. And the result of that is spiritual death

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:



and physical death also came into this world.


17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.

18
Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return

 

[zoetherat]

Maybe you shouldn't assign English definitions to a conversation taking place in who knows what language between beings with the power of instantaneous intellection.

Are you saying that the bible can't be trusted to accurately state what happened?

 

[Paleocon]

Are you saying that the bible can't be trusted to accurately state what happened?

I'm saying that sola scriptura is a load of crap.

 

[zoetherat]

The "death meant spiritual death" explanation always seemed to me to be playing fast and loose with the meanings of the words. I suspect that people came us with that interpretation just so that the story would make sense.

 

[zoetherat]

I'm saying that sola scriptura is a load of crap.

fair enough

 

[Paleocon]

The "death meant spiritual death" explanation always seemed to me to be playing fast and loose with the meanings of the words. I suspect that people came us with that interpretation just so that the story would make sense.

Adam and Eve did die.

 

[29A]

To die - spiritual death, and physical death.

Qutoe your source.

When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, sin entered into the world. And the result of that is spiritual death

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

and physical death also came into this world.

Not in the Genesis account; Paul made that up later.

17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.

18
Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return

All that is an example of ex post facto law, which even humans recognize as unjust.

 

[29A]

Maybe you shouldn't assign English definitions to a conversation taking place in who knows what language between beings with the power of instantaneous intellection.

Intellection? God is supposed to be transcendent, and the meaning, even though translated, should remain the same.

 

[Paleocon]

Intellection? God is supposed to be transcendent, and the meaning, even though translated, should remain the same.

Google is your friend.

Not every word in the Bible is meant in the literal English meaning.

 

[29A]

Not every word in the Bible is meant in the literal English meaning.

Iow, the Bible is truly useless.

 

[Paleocon]

Iow, the Bible is truly useless.

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said, at all.

 

[29A]

You said:

Not every word in the Bible is meant in the literal English meaning.

To which I replied:

Iow, the Bible is truly useless.

To which you replied:

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said, at all.

If the text/language doesn't keep its meaning how is it useful? Biblehub lists some 19 translations, and they all simply say "die". If the translated word means "spiritually die", it should have been so translated.
Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

 

[tosca1]

Qutoe your source.

Not in the Genesis account; Paul made that up later.

All that is an example of ex post facto law, which even humans recognize as unjust.

Whatever you think, that's up to you. I'm just responding from my Christian perspective to your question which is
faith-based. I gave you my source - the Bible.

 

[Paleocon]

You said:



To which I replied:



To which you replied:



If the text/language doesn't keep its meaning how is it useful? Biblehub lists some 19 translations, and they all simply say "die". If the translated word means "spiritually die", it should have been so translated.
Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

God left us a Church to interpret the Bible.

 

[29A]

God left us a Church to interpret the Bible.

Which "Church"? There are some 40k Christian denominations, each with their own interpretations of the Bible.

 

[Koros]

God left us a Church to interpret the Bible.

And when the myriad of christian cults can all agree on ONE interpretation of the bible, then perhaps the bible will actually carry some weight.

 

[Paleocon]

And when the myriad of christian cults can all agree on ONE interpretation of the bible, then perhaps the bible will actually carry some weight.

The one that has existed since Apostolic times.

 

[Koros]

The one that has existed since Apostolic times.

Oh, yeah, THAT one... :roll: