Obama's Quest To Close GITMO

[Crusdr57]

Apparently, Obama is willing to ignore the obvious, and very real dangers of releasing Gitmo detainees simply to honor his promise to close Gitmo. There are currently 103 Detainees at Gitmo, and these are the worst of the bunch.

Also, Obama is still considering transferring some of these to US Prisons, even though Congress has blocked the move more than once. (Most Americans are also against this transfer.)

Ten detainees leaving Gitmo in bulk transfer Thursday, defense officials say | Fox News

From article: "....Fifty-nine prisoners, however, currently are not eligible for transfer abroad, and the administration is trying to figure out what to do with them.

Though Congress has blocked transfers to the United States, the Pentagon nevertheless has conducted a series of site surveys of prisons in the U.S. in the past few months.

Federal prisons in Colorado, Kansas and South Carolina were assessed by defense officials. The Pentagon was supposed to deliver a report to Congress with its findings and recommendations, but that report has not yet been delivered and is currently stalled, according to officials familiar with the matter....."



'Justice delayed is Justice denied'. Most of these Detainees have been held without a trial for many yrs. The US Govt. has ignored the most basic of legal concepts which have their beginnings in the Magna Carta of 1215, and the later versions of this document which influenced the early American colonists and the formation of the American Constitution in 1787.

The Bush, and Obama Admins, (and FOX News) has been calling the Gitmo Detainees 'War Criminals' and therefore the Geneva Convention rules and laws also apply to them, but, holding them for yrs. without a trial, etc. and then releasing them so Obama can 'look good' isn't my idea of Justice. IF these Detainees did commit War Crimes, then, by all means, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the Law, 'Let the punishment fit the crime'.


It appears the US Govt. has forgotten both how to prosecute 'War Criminals' and then properly SERVE Justice.

 

[Casper]

Put them on trial and if they are guilty of crimes hang them or put them in prison in the US (same as a death sentence, if innocent (found not guilty) then send them home. Then close the place down.

 

[azgreg]

Put them on trial and if they are guilty of crimes hang them or put them in prison in the US (same as a death sentence, if innocent (found not guilty) then send them home. Then close the place down.

There's a problem with the bolded. There are many Gitmo detainees who are eligible to be released but their 'home' countries don't want them. Neither does anybody else.

 

[poweRob]

There's a problem with the bolded. There are many Gitmo detainees who are eligible to be released but their 'home' countries don't want them. Neither does anybody else.

Then it's off to the island of misfit toys with them. They can play with the Ralph in a Box.

 

[Casper]

There's a problem with the bolded. There are many Gitmo detainees who are eligible to be released but their 'home' countries don't want them. Neither does anybody else.

If they are citizens you send them back even if you have to strap a parachute on them and push them out of a plane, the price of going off to fight "Holy" wars. At least I would give them the chute, some would just wish them luck and push them out of the plane.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Apparently, Obama is willing to ignore the obvious, and very real dangers of releasing Gitmo detainees simply to honor his promise to close Gitmo. There are currently 103 Detainees at Gitmo, and these are the worst of the bunch.

Also, Obama is still considering transferring some of these to US Prisons, even though Congress has blocked the move more than once. (Most Americans are also against this transfer.)

Ten detainees leaving Gitmo in bulk transfer Thursday, defense officials say | Fox News

From article: "....Fifty-nine prisoners, however, currently are not eligible for transfer abroad, and the administration is trying to figure out what to do with them.

Though Congress has blocked transfers to the United States, the Pentagon nevertheless has conducted a series of site surveys of prisons in the U.S. in the past few months.

Federal prisons in Colorado, Kansas and South Carolina were assessed by defense officials. The Pentagon was supposed to deliver a report to Congress with its findings and recommendations, but that report has not yet been delivered and is currently stalled, according to officials familiar with the matter....."



'Justice delayed is Justice denied'. Most of these Detainees have been held without a trial for many yrs. The US Govt. has ignored the most basic of legal concepts which have their beginnings in the Magna Carta of 1215, and the later versions of this document which influenced the early American colonists and the formation of the American Constitution in 1787.

The Bush, and Obama Admins, (and FOX News) has been calling the Gitmo Detainees 'War Criminals' and therefore the Geneva Convention rules and laws also apply to them, but, holding them for yrs. without a trial, etc. and then releasing them so Obama can 'look good' isn't my idea of Justice. IF these Detainees did commit War Crimes, then, by all means, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the Law, 'Let the punishment fit the crime'.


It appears the US Govt. has forgotten both how to prosecute 'War Criminals' and then properly SERVE Justice.

The only reason Guantanomo exists is to be able to sidestep US law and imprison people without trial or cause. People act like they've got Houdini powers and would escape and wreak havoc if they were tried and convicted while legally imprisoned in the US. The vast, vast majority of Guantanomo inmates have been released without charge, because there was no evidence to keep them there in the first place.

The Americans that don't see the problem with this are terrified little children who will piss on justice and human rights to give themselves a false sense of security.

 

[Crusdr57]

If they are citizens you send them back even if you have to strap a parachute on them and push them out of a plane, the price of going off to fight "Holy" wars. At least I would give them the chute, some would just wish them luck and push them out of the plane.

I agree, except that they must be citizens of some country.

The only reason Guantanamo exists is to be able to sidestep US law and imprison people without trial or cause. People act like they've got Houdini powers and would escape and wreak havoc if they were tried and convicted while legally imprisoned in the US. The vast, vast majority of Guantanamo inmates have been released without charge, because there was no evidence to keep them there in the first place.

The Americans that don't see the problem with this are terrified little children who will piss on justice and human rights to give themselves a false sense of security.

You're 100% correct here, "The only reason Guantanamo exists is to be able to sidestep US law and imprison people without trial or cause." The Feds are also ignoring Geneva Convention Laws, etc.

IF the Feds were to imprison them on US soil, then the Lawyers would declare that they have US Constitutional Rights as well. The American people also don't trust our Prison System's ability to prevent them from escaping, so they don't want to take that chance.

I'm not 100% sure about the evidence against those released, but apparently the Feds believe they were/are guilty of War Crimes to have imprisoned them in the first place. And IF they are guilty, why not go to Trial, prosecute, and then serve Justice???

 

[Casper]

I agree, except that they must be citizens of some country.

Of-course they are, and any IF not found guilty of criminal acts should be returned to that country whether the country wants them back or not, their citizen, their problem.

 

[Reformedfindlay]

There's a problem with the bolded. There are many Gitmo detainees who are eligible to be released but their 'home' countries don't want them. Neither does anybody else.

Then the impetus would be on us to give them a path to citizenship here since we wrongly stole them and shoved them in a cell for so many years.

Of course, that is a moral impetus and not a legal impetus, but I would hope that we as Americans are a morally upright people.

 

[Reformedfindlay]

Of-course they are, and any IF not found guilty of criminal acts should be returned to that country whether the country wants them back or not, their citizen, their problem.

We unethically detained them for years and made their own governments distrustful of them even though they may have done nothing wrong. No, we should allow them the option to become naturalized here.

 

[Nnsecu]

I agree we should offer them a chance to become nationalized. We should also offer them a chance at a good job. I would suggest that they be employed as security personnel for top ranking Democrats starting with Obama. If they truly do not pose any security risk, then those talking the loudest about how safe they are should set the example and place their loved ones on the line for a moral position.

 

[upsideguy]

I agree, except that they must be citizens of some country.




You're 100% correct here, "The only reason Guantanamo exists is to be able to sidestep US law and imprison people without trial or cause." The Feds are also ignoring Geneva Convention Laws, etc.

Completely un-American. It has undermined our moral authority by making the US look like hypocrites

IF the Feds were to imprison them on US soil, then the Lawyers would declare that they have US Constitutional Rights as well. The American people also don't trust our Prison System's ability to prevent them from escaping, so they don't want to take that chance.

Completely irrational. People that believe that are idiots.

I'm not 100% sure about the evidence against those released, but apparently the Feds believe they were/are guilty of War Crimes to have imprisoned them in the first place. And IF they are guilty, why not go to Trial, prosecute, and then serve Justice???

A complete farce. People were rounded up on a variety of criteria including people being paid bounty to turn in "suspected terrorists". The whole thing is a sham and a black eye in American history.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I don't want to close Guantanamo Bay Naval Base.

It should have never been used as a concentration camp to hold people without due process. THAT should be eliminated.

Just make sure we keep the military installation and run it as a pure military installation.

 

[FieldTheorist]

I don't want to close Guantanamo Bay Naval Base.

It should have never been used as a concentration camp to hold people without due process. THAT should be eliminated.

Just make sure we keep the military installation and run it as a pure military installation.

Ostensibly I don't automatically disagree with this, but can you cite a reason why we should --baring in mind the extremely boated nature of our military's global influence-- keep GITMO open? Is there some strategic justification that you think warrants it remaining open?

 

[Captain Adverse]

Ostensibly I don't automatically disagree with this, but can you cite a reason why we should --baring in mind the extremely boated nature of our military's global influence-- keep GITMO open? Is there some strategic justification that you think warrants it remaining open?

Yep. It is a strategic location within the Caribbean for possible future military and/or intelligence operations in Central and South America. Were it not for the abusive usage as a concentration camp, it would also have remained a secure site outside National, State, and local politics.

 

[Casper]

I don't want to close Guantanamo Bay Naval Base.

It should have never been used as a concentration camp to hold people without due process. THAT should be eliminated.

Just make sure we keep the military installation and run it as a pure military installation.

Works for me.

 

[Montecresto]

Apparently, Obama is willing to ignore the obvious, and very real dangers of releasing Gitmo detainees simply to honor his promise to close Gitmo. There are currently 103 Detainees at Gitmo, and these are the worst of the bunch.

Also, Obama is still considering transferring some of these to US Prisons, even though Congress has blocked the move more than once. (Most Americans are also against this transfer.)

Ten detainees leaving Gitmo in bulk transfer Thursday, defense officials say | Fox News

From article: "....Fifty-nine prisoners, however, currently are not eligible for transfer abroad, and the administration is trying to figure out what to do with them.

Though Congress has blocked transfers to the United States, the Pentagon nevertheless has conducted a series of site surveys of prisons in the U.S. in the past few months.

Federal prisons in Colorado, Kansas and South Carolina were assessed by defense officials. The Pentagon was supposed to deliver a report to Congress with its findings and recommendations, but that report has not yet been delivered and is currently stalled, according to officials familiar with the matter....."



'Justice delayed is Justice denied'. Most of these Detainees have been held without a trial for many yrs. The US Govt. has ignored the most basic of legal concepts which have their beginnings in the Magna Carta of 1215, and the later versions of this document which influenced the early American colonists and the formation of the American Constitution in 1787.

The Bush, and Obama Admins, (and FOX News) has been calling the Gitmo Detainees 'War Criminals' and therefore the Geneva Convention rules and laws also apply to them, but, holding them for yrs. without a trial, etc. and then releasing them so Obama can 'look good' isn't my idea of Justice. IF these Detainees did commit War Crimes, then, by all means, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the Law, 'Let the punishment fit the crime'.


It appears the US Govt. has forgotten both how to prosecute 'War Criminals' and then properly SERVE Justice.

Have these 103 "detainees" been specifically charged with crimes, let alone been convicted?

 

[Montecresto]

I don't want to close Guantanamo Bay Naval Base.

It should have never been used as a concentration camp to hold people without due process. THAT should be eliminated.

Just make sure we keep the military installation and run it as a pure military installation.

I don't think that's Obama's purpose.

 

[Crusdr57]

We unethically detained them for years and made their own governments distrustful of them even though they may have done nothing wrong. No, we should allow them the option to become naturalized here.

The Feds have detained them illegally only because of denying them due process. These ppl are terrorists, or if you prefer, 'War criminals' and obviously, they've done enough wrong to be incarcerated in Gitmo. Their OWN Countries don't want them either.

Some 'punishment' for their crimes....give them US Citizenship, and release them into American Society...I suppose you think we should give them Welfare, and support them for the rest of their lives as well!?!

 

[Montecresto]

The Feds have detained them illegally only because of denying them due process. These ppl are terrorists, or if you prefer, 'War criminals' and obviously, they've done enough wrong to be incarcerated in Gitmo. Their OWN Countries don't want them either.

Some 'punishment' for their crimes....give them US Citizenship, and release them into American Society...I suppose you think we should give them Welfare, and support them for the rest of their lives as well!?!

We know that they are "terrorists" or "war criminals" because Bush said so? I think not.

 

[Crusdr57]

Have these 103 "detainees" been specifically charged with crimes, let alone been convicted?

As far as I know, none have been specifically charged, but all are labelled 'War Criminals' by the Feds.

Also, AFAIK, none have even been tried, let alone convicted, (this applies to most, if not all, of those already released, I've read there was once 700 inmates.) The lack of due process @ Gitmo is one of my main points here.

From thew OP: "The Bush, and Obama Admins, (and FOX News) has been calling the Gitmo Detainees 'War Criminals' and therefore the Geneva Convention rules and laws also apply to them, but, holding them for yrs. without a trial, etc. and then releasing them so Obama can 'look good' isn't my idea of Justice. IF these Detainees did commit War Crimes, then, by all means, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the Law, 'Let the punishment fit the crime'.


It appears the US Govt. has forgotten both how to prosecute 'War Criminals' and then properly SERVE Justice. "

 

[Reformedfindlay]

The Feds have detained them illegally only because of denying them due process. These ppl are terrorists, or if you prefer, 'War criminals' and obviously, they've done enough wrong to be incarcerated in Gitmo. Their OWN Countries don't want them either.

Some 'punishment' for their crimes....give them US Citizenship, and release them into American Society...I suppose you think we should give them Welfare, and support them for the rest of their lives as well!?!

Everyone who goes to gitmo is an automatic terrorist?

Why don't you reassess that statement that those guys are terrorists.

I mean, you put these two gems in the same post...

"denying them due process" and "these ppl are terrorists"

If you didnt give them due ****ing process, then how the hell do you know that they are terrorists? Look, give them due process, and if it turns out that they are innocent, then let em have the ability to become naturalized if their country no longer trusts them, because WE PUT THEM IN THAT POSITION.

"they've done enough wrong to be incarcerated in Gitmo"

I've heard a statement along those lines before. It was from a kid I met at school, and he had the brains of an average pissant.

 

[Crusdr57]

We know that they are "terrorists" or "war criminals" because Bush said so? I think not.

No, we don't know this....Bush and Co. decided that they are, (I was just using his term).

 

[Crusdr57]

Everyone who goes to gitmo is an automatic terrorist?

Why don't you reassess that statement that those guys are terrorists.

I mean, you put these two gems in the same post...

"denying them due process" and "these ppl are terrorists"

If you didnt give them due ****ing process, then how the hell do you know that they are terrorists? Look, give them due process, and if it turns out that they are innocent, then let em have the ability to become naturalized if their country no longer trusts them, because WE PUT THEM IN THAT POSITION.

"they've done enough wrong to be incarcerated in Gitmo"

I've heard a statement along those lines before. It was from a kid I met at school, and he had the brains of an average pissant.

No, we don't know this....Bush and Co. decided that they are, (I was just using his term).

This applies to your post also.

Like I said in the OP, IF they committed a crime, then bring them to trial, etc.

I'm FOR due process, get it?

 

[Montecresto]

As far as I know, none have been specifically charged, but all are labelled 'War Criminals' by the Feds.

Also, AFAIK, none have even been tried, let alone convicted, (this applies to most, if not all, of those already released, I've read there was once 700 inmates.) The lack of due process @ Gitmo is one of my main points here.

From thew OP: "The Bush, and Obama Admins, (and FOX News) has been calling the Gitmo Detainees 'War Criminals' and therefore the Geneva Convention rules and laws also apply to them, but, holding them for yrs. without a trial, etc. and then releasing them so Obama can 'look good' isn't my idea of Justice. IF these Detainees did commit War Crimes, then, by all means, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the Law, 'Let the punishment fit the crime'.


It appears the US Govt. has forgotten both how to prosecute 'War Criminals' and then properly SERVE Justice. "

The whole affairs a stinking mess, and Obama's not "looking good" by this point, it is way too late, too much damage has been done. He still needs to end the program, but it should have been done long ago. The system never was trustworthy, many of the prisoners were abducted (renditioned) off city streets the world over. People were paid to turn someone in. That's always fraught with potential for abuse.