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Myths About Social Security

What is clear is that you do not know who those 43% who pay no federal income taxes.

According to USA Today:


The elderly are generally people that worked all their lives and now are retired on a lower income. It is insulting to call them unfortunate. That's the way the system is designed. To be eligible for Social Security and Medicare, the biggest programs, one had to have a significant work history.

The One Economic Number That We Need to Talk About: 47% - PolicyMic

The elderly are the wealthiest of any age demographic - so I am not saying that they are unfortunate. It is you that insists on calling them that.

significant work history 10 years?
 
The reason that you don't hear about it is because most of it is internet myth.



The man who ran Social Security in 1944 disagreed with your statement, and went as far as to predict that SS would face continually rising payroll taxes until the system could not be supported. Let me know if you want a link.

Just Facts. In 1967, Social Security was a paygo system - by definition there was very little for the politicians to put their hands on.

Just Facts: without the government repaying that money, Social Security would not have been able to pay full benefits in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, and so forth until 2031.

Yes, please send me a link. Thank you. I thought the VietNam War was well after 1944.:doh
 
Yes, please send me a link. Thank you. I thought the VietNam War was well after 1944.:doh

Vietnam was well after 1944, but Vietnam has nothing to do with the financial problems forecasted by the man in 1944.

The original law called for 6% payroll taxes to be phased in from a starting point of 2%. Everyone of the increases was waived by Congress, which didn't want the voters to know the cost of the system. The man who ran the system wanted the increases so that the system would be stable.

In (3) he is saying if we do not increase the payroll tax today, then future workers will pay higher and higher taxes - (which is exactly what happened). If we do this, we will come to point where economic returns will fall to point where people are losing money (which is exactly what happened). Four say that taxes will rise so high that workers will not be able to afford the system (that happened in the 1970s and led to the EITC). Without knowing about Vietnam, the man predicted exactly were we are today.

Here is the whole piece : Social Security History

here are clips...

3) It is a mathematical certainty that the longer the present pay-roll tax rate remains in effect, the higher the future pay-roll tax must be if the insurance system continues to be financed wholly by payroll taxes. Therefore, the indefinite continuation of the present contribution rate (assuming the system is self-sustaining, and the costs are shared equally by the employees and employers) will eventually necessitate raising the employees' contribution rate later to a point where future beneficiaries will be obliged to pay more for their benefits than if they obtained this insurance from a private insurance company.

(4) Retaining the present rate creates a moral obligation on the part of Congress to provide a Government subsidy later on to the extent necessary to avoid levying inequitably high pay-roll tax rates in the future. This obligation is recognized in the recent Murray amendment incorporated in section 201 (a) of the Social Security Act reading as follows: "There is also authorized to be appropriated to the trust fund such additional sums as may be required to finance the benefits and payments provided under this title."
 
Again. You posit that its okay to steal from people because others fail at life because you care. You really dont care about the poor. Your jealous of others success. You feel empty and to give your life meaning you support class warfare and tell yourself you are doing good things. You ignore real human history. Yes. Poor folks staved in much of human existence. Why? Because they were not free. They were forced to work for others. They were "cared for" by elitist tyrants (see modern day cuba) and starve while thier masters dine on steak. You are a terrible person.

Oh please.. come now. Where does all this "okay to steal form people because others fail at life" crap come from.?

My patient gets welfare.. he gets Medicaid, and food stamps and VA benefits... paid by you the taxpayer.. "failed at life" you say?

He is a former marine corporal. He got good grades in school, worked hard, went into the marines.. served his country well for several years of combat duty... until he had a IED blow off both of his legs and gave him a head injury.

That's is some of the people that are on welfare..

and an edit for Joe the Economist...

He is also one of the 43% that don't pay income taxes.
 
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H.L. Mencken once observed "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." The debate about Social Security reforms proves his point.

Today there is a simple answer: Americans are living too long. This answer is supported by data which shows life expectancy increasing from 63 in 1940 to more than 77 today. The logical conclusion is that “Americans are living longer and thus receiving benefits for more years.” While clear and simple, the conclusion is a mix of bad data and faulty reasoning.

Increasing life expectancies does in fact create two financial burdens for Social Security. First, it can mean that people are living longer in retirement so that they will collect benefits for a longer period of time. Second, it also can mean that people become more likely to reach the age where they can collect benefits at all. Yes as Americans live longer, Social Security will pay more in benefits.

Those consequences are however only half of the story. What the argument fails to consider is that Americans who live longer, work longer and contribute more to Social Security. So it is very possible that rising life expectancies can improve the financial imbalances in Social Security. So whether the negative impact offsets the positive impact really depends upon at what age Americans are living longer.

The primary cause of this increase in life expectancy is a reduction of infant mortality. Believe or not, fewer babies dying is a financial plus for Social Security. Infants born after 1963 statistically will on average collect less than they contribute to Social Security. The data from the Urban Institute a non-partisan think-tank says that an average wage worker (single or married, male or female) contributes more than he expects to collect – and that assumes every worker lives to the age of full-retirement.

Many do not. Advances in medical science saved my brother at the age of 21. Better doctors and better medicine allowed him to work until he died at the age of 44. Over the 23 years of additional life, my brother contributed close to $60,000 without ever collecting a penny. Life expectancies of Americans rose because of people like my brother, and yet Social Security made a lot of money on the increase.

This argument also ignores the way Social Security works. The benefits formula uses the 35 highest years of earnings to compute benefits. Thus when a worker works 36 or more years, the benefits formula removes a year of earnings. As a consequence of math, Social Security in many cases collects free money by Americans living longer.
Americans whose live expectancy extends from 55 to 67 are at times a cash-cow for Social Security.

Projecting life expectancy is not an exact science. In fact, the Social Security Administration has faced public scrutiny over its estimation model. I provide some research here to create some a framework for prospective. According to research from SSA,



· The life expectancy of the average 30 year-old male (someone who typically has attained eligibility for benefits) increased by almost 9 years since 1940.



· The average 65 year-old male in 1940 expected to live about 12 years, whereas in 2010 he expected to live 16.4 years. Today Social Security requires people to wait an additional two years, the increase in retirement benefits based on this research would be less than 2.4 years.



· Statistically, Americans are more likely to reach the age of full retirement. In 1990, the SSA projected that someone who was 21 had a 72% of reaching full retirement-age. The Social Security Administration reports that figure had risen to slightly less than 79% by 2009.



I wish that I could tell you that 9 more years of work could offset the additional benefits generated by Social Security. I can’t. I can tell you that life expectancy of an infant is not relevant to a discussion about a pension system and that the public debate about Social Security does little to clarify the question of how increasing life expectancies of Americans affects Social Security.

I went on SS a few years ago. I spent most of my last 10 years working off the books and had like 40 on the books. They told me only the best 5 of your last 10 counted and so I got the same as a person who had never worked. 700 a month

Also if you die before your 65 they keep the money.
 
Oh please.. come now. Where does all this "okay to steal form people because others fail at life" crap come from.?

My patient gets welfare.. he gets Medicaid, and food stamps and VA benefits... paid by you the taxpayer.. "failed at life" you say?

He is a former marine corporal. He got good grades in school, worked hard, went into the marines.. served his country well for several years of combat duty... until he had a IED blow off both of his legs and gave him a head injury.

That's is some of the people that are on welfare..

and an edit for Joe the Economist...

He is also one of the 43% that don't pay income taxes.
Oh, is that it? The heart string "patriotic" appeal? /smh

Hey, we're wasting TRILLIONS on welfare programs that just trap people in mediocrity... but I know a guy who (insert the above story) so we can't ever DARE stop ruining our country and ****ting on the future of America, cause I know this guy...
 
I went on SS a few years ago. I spent most of my last 10 years working off the books and had like 40 on the books. They told me only the best 5 of your last 10 counted and so I got the same as a person who had never worked. 700 a month

If you work 40 years on the books, Social Security will average the 35 highest years. The work you did 35 years ago is indexed to wages, so your last working years may well have been free for SS. The formula has more than 2200 rules, so it is not an exact science.

Also if you die before your 65 they keep the money.

The auto insurance company keeps your money if you don't have a wreck. Is that a problem as well?
 
If you work 40 years on the books, Social Security will average the 35 highest years. The work you did 35 years ago is indexed to wages, so your last working years may well have been free for SS. The formula has more than 2200 rules, so it is not an exact science.



The auto insurance company keeps your money if you don't have a wreck. Is that a problem as well?

Thats not what they told me

I dont have to buy auto insurance.
 
If you have a car you do. People who don't work in jobs covered by SS, don't contribute either. That is about 6% of the work force.

Even though I do own one I dont have to buy insurance and Im paying for a service. Im also against the law that says I have to have it. People who don't work in jobs covered by SS are violating the law.
 
Oh, is that it? The heart string "patriotic" appeal? /smh

Hey, we're wasting TRILLIONS on welfare programs that just trap people in mediocrity... but I know a guy who (insert the above story) so we can't ever DARE stop ruining our country and ****ting on the future of America, cause I know this guy...

Heartstrings? No simply reality..

You are the one playing on heart strings my friend.. and not dealing with reality. Welfare programs don't "trap people into mediocrity". They simply don't work that way. the vast majority of "welfare" in this country go to children, and elderly and disabled.
Those are the facts. Young single, healthy and no children? You aint getting squat for welfare.. not on average you are not.

We aren't ruining our country with welfare... whats ruining our country is that folks buy into hate and blame and don't look at the reality of whats going on in our country.

Simple fact.. we had something like 4% of unemployment in the 2000's. Years of low unemployment.. which means people WORKED.. and worked hard. We actually had a crash in our economy. That wasn't "because of welfare".. that wasn't "because of Obama".. it wasn't because "people are lazy"...

And the number of jobs in this country decreased and led to now almost 9% unemployment. That's not because people want to be mediocre.. or they are lazy or because of welfare.

Your narrative simply makes no sense what so ever.
 
Heartstrings? No simply reality..

You are the one playing on heart strings my friend.. and not dealing with reality. Welfare programs don't "trap people into mediocrity". They simply don't work that way. the vast majority of "welfare" in this country go to children, and elderly and disabled.
Those are the facts. Young single, healthy and no children? You aint getting squat for welfare.. not on average you are not.

We aren't ruining our country with welfare... whats ruining our country is that folks buy into hate and blame and don't look at the reality of whats going on in our country.

Simple fact.. we had something like 4% of unemployment in the 2000's. Years of low unemployment.. which means people WORKED.. and worked hard. We actually had a crash in our economy. That wasn't "because of welfare".. that wasn't "because of Obama".. it wasn't because "people are lazy"...

And the number of jobs in this country decreased and led to now almost 9% unemployment. That's not because people want to be mediocre.. or they are lazy or because of welfare.

Your narrative simply makes no sense what so ever.
Although your bio says conservative, I fully agree with this post.
 
Heartstrings? No simply reality..

You are the one playing on heart strings my friend.. and not dealing with reality. Welfare programs don't "trap people into mediocrity". They simply don't work that way. the vast majority of "welfare" in this country go to children, and elderly and disabled.
Those are the facts. Young single, healthy and no children? You aint getting squat for welfare.. not on average you are not.

We aren't ruining our country with welfare... whats ruining our country is that folks buy into hate and blame and don't look at the reality of whats going on in our country.

Simple fact.. we had something like 4% of unemployment in the 2000's. Years of low unemployment.. which means people WORKED.. and worked hard. We actually had a crash in our economy. That wasn't "because of welfare".. that wasn't "because of Obama".. it wasn't because "people are lazy"...

And the number of jobs in this country decreased and led to now almost 9% unemployment. That's not because people want to be mediocre.. or they are lazy or because of welfare.

Your narrative simply makes no sense what so ever.
They DO trap people. If you were correct, then the "Great Society" antipoverty programs... over the last 40 years would have shown success. They have not. Generations now are born, live and die on welfare. That's a fact jack. 47% of Americans don't pay a DIME in taxes. Hell a majority of those people actually make MORE from welfare and government handouts then they would working.


Here's the deal, people see that they can make XXX amount of money not working. They get food, cash, healthcare. If they work, they lose some of this. If they get a better paying job, they lose more of the benefits. With Obamacare that drop off is quite clearly demarcated.

What you, and MATECH and the rest of the welfare "caring folks" REALLY believe, is that these people are incapable of improving their lot in life, and they should THANKFUL for people like you who CARE for them. You believe it's in their best interest because hey... that's all their gonna amount to in life.

Disgusting really.

Family Welfare Cultures

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/21/opinion/spalding-welfare-state-dependency/
 
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They DO trap people. If you were correct, then the "Great Society" antipoverty programs... over the last 40 years would have shown success. They have not. Generations now are born, live and die on welfare. That's a fact jack. 47% of Americans don't pay a DIME in taxes. Hell a majority of those people actually make MORE from welfare and government handouts then they would working.


Here's the deal, people see that they can make XXX amount of money not working. They get food, cash, healthcare. If they work, they lose some of this. If they get a better paying job, they lose more of the benefits. With Obamacare that drop off is quite clearly demarcated.

What you, and MATECH and the rest of the welfare "caring folks" REALLY believe, is that these people are incapable of improving their lot in life, and they should THANKFUL for people like you who CARE for them. You believe it's in their best interest because hey... that's all their gonna amount to in life.

Disgusting really.

Family Welfare Cultures

Why the U.S. has a culture of dependency - CNN.com

Poop. You are wrong on multiple levels.

First of all..not all "antipoverty" or MOST anti poverty programs were or ARE designed to get people out of poverty. THEY NEVER were designed to get people OUT of poverty.. NEVER EVER EVER.. .

Anti poverty was about not suffering the effects of being impoverished... which before the new deal meant STARVATION. It meant young kids dying because dad lost his job. It meant kids dying of disease because their was no money for simple medicines. It meant old people being homeless on the streets dying of exposure.

THOSE were the real world consequences/risks of being impoverished. And that risk intensified when our nation went from an agricultural nation.. to an industrialized one. When you are growing your own food, or have access to growing your own food then the consequences of poverty are less. When you become an industrialized nation where access to food, clothing, heat, housing.. etc all depends on money from a paycheck? The risks of being poor are multiplied.
THATS what we learned during the Great Depression. We had become industrialized to a point that when massive unemployment struck.. suddenly, people suffered like they never had before.

The antipoverty programs put in place were not to suddenly make you middle class or rich... WHERE THE HECK DO YOU GUYS GET THAT? The antipoverty programs were put in place as a safety net... so if you lost your job and couldn't get another fast enough.. YOUR CHILDREN DIDN"T DIE.

Antipoverty programs in this country have been a wonderful success. People don't die and suffer when they are poor like they did almost 80 years ago.
In fact YOU are a perfect example of just how good the anti poverty programs have been. Anti poverty or welfare programs have been so good in this country.. that folks like you don't even realize the actual consequences of being poor without a safety net. You seem to think that they are only poor because.. "They are lazy". "why don't they get a job" you say.. of course right after lamenting about how bad the economy is and how few jobs there are under Obama.

Now you are right.. some of the arbitrary limits on welfare do create problems. Especially when you are punished for working. But tell me.. are you REALLY claiming that we should EXPAND the welfare program so that we increase the limits so that people will qualify for welfare longer rather than being dropped when they hit a limit? Is that what you really are pushing here?

and you are wrong that 47% of americans don't pay a dime in taxes... 47% of americans (lower now) don't pay a dime in FEDERAL INCOME TAX. Many if not most of those folks are still paying excise taxes, payroll taxes, state income taxes, property taxes and state sales taxes.

And those that aren't paying federal income tax? Well they are folks like the elderly that have paid in taxes their whole lives.. but now don't have enough income coming in to pay federal income taxes. They are folks like my family in the military that don't pay tax on the money they earn in a combat zone.
They are folks that are disabled.

And yes. they are folks that fall under the Bush tax cuts and that's why they don't pay income tax.

And isn't that ironic... we lambast folks for not paying federal income tax.. and then we laud the politicians that lowered the tax to the point that a lot of folks don't qualify.
 
Even though I do own one I dont have to buy insurance and Im paying for a service. Im also against the law that says I have to have it. People who don't work in jobs covered by SS are violating the law.

That is not true. Originally Social Security covered about 50% of the work force. That has been expanded over time as the financials deteriorated. Today municipalities such as Galveston, County in Texas aren't participating. That loophole was closed in 1981, but still about 6% of the work force does not participate. If you include the gray market, it is probably 20%, but some of those are second jobs where the worker is covered on the first.
 
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -- John Kenneth Galbraith

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much it is whether we provide enough for those who have little.” -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." -- Louis Blanc and Karl Marx
 
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." -- Louis Blanc and Karl Marx

“Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed.”

Herman Mellville
 
Poop. You are wrong on multiple levels.

First of all..not all "antipoverty" or MOST anti poverty programs were or ARE designed to get people out of poverty. THEY NEVER were designed to get people OUT of poverty.. NEVER EVER EVER.. .

Anti poverty was about not suffering the effects of being impoverished... which before the new deal meant STARVATION. It meant young kids dying because dad lost his job. It meant kids dying of disease because their was no money for simple medicines. It meant old people being homeless on the streets dying of exposure.

THOSE were the real world consequences/risks of being impoverished. And that risk intensified when our nation went from an agricultural nation.. to an industrialized one. When you are growing your own food, or have access to growing your own food then the consequences of poverty are less. When you become an industrialized nation where access to food, clothing, heat, housing.. etc all depends on money from a paycheck? The risks of being poor are multiplied.
THATS what we learned during the Great Depression. We had become industrialized to a point that when massive unemployment struck.. suddenly, people suffered like they never had before.

The antipoverty programs put in place were not to suddenly make you middle class or rich... WHERE THE HECK DO YOU GUYS GET THAT? The antipoverty programs were put in place as a safety net... so if you lost your job and couldn't get another fast enough.. YOUR CHILDREN DIDN"T DIE.

Antipoverty programs in this country have been a wonderful success. People don't die and suffer when they are poor like they did almost 80 years ago.
In fact YOU are a perfect example of just how good the anti poverty programs have been. Anti poverty or welfare programs have been so good in this country.. that folks like you don't even realize the actual consequences of being poor without a safety net. You seem to think that they are only poor because.. "They are lazy". "why don't they get a job" you say.. of course right after lamenting about how bad the economy is and how few jobs there are under Obama.

Now you are right.. some of the arbitrary limits on welfare do create problems. Especially when you are punished for working. But tell me.. are you REALLY claiming that we should EXPAND the welfare program so that we increase the limits so that people will qualify for welfare longer rather than being dropped when they hit a limit? Is that what you really are pushing here?

and you are wrong that 47% of americans don't pay a dime in taxes... 47% of americans (lower now) don't pay a dime in FEDERAL INCOME TAX. Many if not most of those folks are still paying excise taxes, payroll taxes, state income taxes, property taxes and state sales taxes.

And those that aren't paying federal income tax? Well they are folks like the elderly that have paid in taxes their whole lives.. but now don't have enough income coming in to pay federal income taxes. They are folks like my family in the military that don't pay tax on the money they earn in a combat zone.
They are folks that are disabled.

And yes. they are folks that fall under the Bush tax cuts and that's why they don't pay income tax.

And isn't that ironic... we lambast folks for not paying federal income tax.. and then we laud the politicians that lowered the tax to the point that a lot of folks don't qualify.

Best post of the day. Well said.
 
“Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed.”

Herman Mellville
2 Thessalonians 3
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some among you who walk disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
 
2 Thessalonians 3
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some among you who walk disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

Melville had it right.
 
2 Thessalonians 3
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some among you who walk disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

Yep.. but...

For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Deuteronomy 15:11

]
 
Yep.. but...



Deuteronomy 15:11

]

I do give to charity, but I don't need a federal law to make me. Unlike the left that want to kick the church out of everything.....unless of course they can get some money. I also expect the poor to work.
 
I do give to charity, but I don't need a federal law to make me. Unlike the left that want to kick the church out of everything.....unless of course they can get some money. I also expect the poor to work.

if your heart is open to the idea of charity.. then the federal law isn't MAKING you do it now is it.

Any more than if you already believe that murder is wrong.. a federal law against murder isn't making you not kill people.
 
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