More income tax facts

[TurtleDude]

Oh sorry they had to move to a bigger house. Must have been painful. 70 hours a week isn't all that painful, plus, some of that is defintely on the golf course, and much of it is traveling. My father is a high ranking businessman. He does quite well, and I have seen the work he puts in. He deserves the money he makes, but he does not make $4,000,000 a year or anything gross like that.

Yes, they work hard. Who said that CEO's don't? That's hardly the point. Everyone works hard.

what idiocy-as if you work 70 hours a week at the level they do

are you still in high school> who should decide what someone is paid? a kid who has never held a real job?

does Barry bonds or LeBron James deserve 20 million or more a year? HOw about Natalie Portman?

 

[upsideguy]

why do people want to whine about the 400 richest people when thecurrent discussion of taxes involves jacking taxes up on people making 200K or more a year.

No one is talking about "jacking up taxes". The upper marginal tax rate has been steadly falling for decades. The suggestion, is essentially to adjust back up a notch as perhaps we let the rate fall just a little too much.

 

[whysoserious]

what idiocy-as if you work 70 hours a week at the level they do

are you still in high school> who should decide what someone is paid? a kid who has never held a real job?

does Barry bonds or LeBron James deserve 20 million or more a year? HOw about Natalie Portman?

You know, the quantity that entertainment people get is definitely debate worthy. Also, apparently, the person who chooses how much people get paid is the guy who is raking in millions per year. No, I am not in high school. I will be graduating college this year with a degree in Math and a focus in Actuarial Science. Money is something I have a very good conceptual understanding of.

I can compound interest in more ways than you can count, and I know more ways to make money than you knew existed. I am just willing to pay more because I am not whiney, and I know that there are people who work multiple jobs just to barely stay afloat.

 

[TurtleDude]

I can certainly understand your confusion here. Take comfort that there is no such thing as a death tax. You can die at anytime with no tax obligations whatsoever. Perhaps you are referring the estate tax. Only people with estates, which is the upper, upper tier of persons pay this tax.



There is nothing stopping you from being a member of this group and paying no taxes. If you not a member of this group (and even if you are), I would be on my knees multiple times a day to thank the Lord for a blessed life... and would be paying the social obligation that goes with it (plus your tithe)... I don't know about the rest of you, but I am losing patience with wealthy whiners.... 99% of the world's population worries about the next meal, not about their tax shelters.

pathetic semantic games.

how much extra tax do you pay the goverment?

and if you want to be winston that is your business-many of us don't worship big brother as you do or are deluded into thinking our good "fortune" comes from the government

 

[The Giant Noodle]

more moronic stereotypes

when I see people claiming that most of the rich sit on their asses i realize I am dealing with someone who is clueless about reality. Fortune or Forbes did a study on people who end up being the CEOs of the top 500 companies Going on memory, the "average" CEO moved 6 times averaged 70 hours of work a week etc.

the purpose of government is not to dictate who gets rich but to provide for the actual things the constitution delegates to it

and its as valid to argue the entitlement welfare socialist system is as much a reason why the poor get poorer as it is to whine about the rich not paying enough when they already pay more in income taxes than the bottom 95 percent

CEOs are as pathetic as unions are. C titles work 70 hours a week. yeah RIGHT! What is your definition of "work"? Man I dont know where you have been working or what little experience you have in corporations but it is far from accurate. CEOs "work" is about as difficult as a real working persons lunch hour! I dont doubt they "work" 70 hours a week. Its just the "work" they do.

And welfare recip's arent much more honerable than the very wealthy CEOs children and wives. Talk about entitlement! Your VERY hypocritical.

 

[TurtleDude]

You know, the quantity that entertainment people get is definitely debate worthy. Also, apparently, the person who chooses how much people get paid is the guy who is raking in millions per year. No, I am not in high school. I will be graduating college this year with a degree in Math and a focus in Actuarial Science. Money is something I have a very good conceptual understanding of.

I can compound interest in more ways than you can count, and I know more ways to make money than you knew existed. I am just willing to pay more because I am not whiney, and I know that there are people who work multiple jobs just to barely stay afloat.

really-so we can expect you to be making over a million a year shortly because if you really know all what you claim to do it should be easy for you. I figured someone who really hasn't been out in the real world yet and I was right

what duty do I have to support people who cannot but have done nothing to benefit me and whose lot is not my fault at all?

 

[TurtleDude]

CEOs are as pathetic as unions are. C titles work 70 hours a week. yeah RIGHT! What is your definition of "work"? Man I dont know where you have been working or what little experience you have in corporations but it is far from accurate. CEOs "work" is about as difficult as a real working persons lunch hour! I dont doubt they "work" 70 hours a week. Its just the "work" they do.

And welfare recip's arent much more honerable than the very wealthy CEOs children and wives. Talk about entitlement! Your VERY hypocritical.

more idiocy. why do you whine about people you know nothing about. weren't you the guy who claimed the rich are actually given money by the government rather than paying taxes? Envy is what permeates your post about CEOS


remind me about your job again-i want to see if you have any knowledge about CEOs. I do-my father was a CEO of a company he started working at at age 6 and other than four years in the navy/college he spent his entire adult life at the company holding every non-bargaining unit job available. He also was on a bunch of boards as is my brother. and I don't remember my father really having a real vacation more than a few times-no matter where we went he'd be on the phone late in the night. one time, we were in georgia for a two week vacation and one of the machinists got hurt after not using safety measures on a machine-my dad was on the first plane he could catch getting to the hospital at 3AM in the morning.

so you can blather all you want about your great knowledge of CEOs to me and I will quickly know what is BS and what is truth

 

[whysoserious]

really-so we can expect you to be making over a million a year shortly because if you really know all what you claim to do it should be easy for you. I figured someone who really hasn't been out in the real world yet and I was right

what duty do I have to support people who cannot but have done nothing to benefit me and whose lot is not my fault at all?

No. Hopefully I pass the P-Exam this year (I already have FM under my belt), and then I would be almost guaranteed a job. If this happens, you can expect me to come out making about $50,000 - $60,000 a year. If I play my cards right and become a Fellow Actuary, then it would be normal for me to make anywhere from $150,000-$300,000 (depending on level of management and employer).

Nothing amazingly flashy, but well compensated. And yes, I may know how to make tons of money, but it takes money to make it. So, no, it is unreasonable for you to believe that I would be making that much money.

 

[TurtleDude]

No. Hopefully I pass the P-Exam this year (I already have FM under my belt), and then I would be almost guaranteed a job. If this happens, you can expect me to come out making about $50,000 - $60,000 a year. If I play my cards right and become a Fellow Actuary, then it would be normal for me to make anywhere from $150,000-$300,000 (depending on level of management and employer).

Nothing amazingly flashy, but well compensated. And yes, I may know how to make tons of money, but it takes money to make it. So, no, it is unreasonable for you to believe that I would be making that much money.

well when you start supporting a wife and children get back to me about how great it is to have half of your next dollar taken in taxes taxes that go to fund say the Philadelphia housing authority's belly dancer parties or to fund people who have more children by age 22 than you have in credit hours.

 

[whysoserious]

well when you start supporting a wife and children get back to me about how great it is to have half of your next dollar taken in taxes taxes that go to fund say the Philadelphia housing authority's belly dancer parties or to fund people who have more children by age 22 than you have in credit hours.

Again, as I said in the other thread, I think we are talking about different groups of people here. I never advocated for those who are unemployed without cause.

 

[TurtleDude]

CEOs are as pathetic as unions are. C titles work 70 hours a week. yeah RIGHT! What is your definition of "work"? Man I dont know where you have been working or what little experience you have in corporations but it is far from accurate. CEOs "work" is about as difficult as a real working persons lunch hour! I dont doubt they "work" 70 hours a week. Its just the "work" they do.

And welfare recip's arent much more honerable than the very wealthy CEOs children and wives. Talk about entitlement! Your VERY hypocritical.

here is what we are dealing with in terms of economic wisdom

Turtle.... you just got smacked! Good thing you have fast reflexes and are now in your shell.
Anyhow, EVERY wealthy person I know gets money back from the gov't because of using a kick-ass tax accountant. They dont pay. They GET money!
So this thing about the rich paying taxes is not true. Not from what Ive seen.

 

[imagep]

why do people want to whine about the 400 richest people when thecurrent discussion of taxes involves jacking taxes up on people making 200K or more a year.

If your only issue is that the top tax rate starts at just 200k, then I am all with you. You are aware that I think it should be much higher than that. What level would you start the top tax rate at?

 

[TurtleDude]

If your only issue is that the top tax rate starts at just 200k, then I am all with you. You are aware that I think it should be much higher than that. What level would you start the top tax rate at?

you do understand that I oppose progressive rates?

but someone making under 1 million should be paying the same rates as someone making 100K

and 10 Million would be another level

but I prefer a flat rate for the reasons I have expounded

 

[imagep]

I do understand that you oppose progressive rates. I am interested if you would be willing to compromise, and if so at what level your compromise would be. Thank you for being willing to compromise, your a stand up testudine for doing that.

I do find it interesting that your compromise would be to move the top tax level to significantly over what you happen to make. I cant find anytype of justification for the top rate starting at $200k, but I can at $400k. Do you have a specific reason why it could be justified at the $10,000,000 level but not the $200k or 400k or $1,000,000 other than the fact that you happen make a little over $1,000,000?

 

[phattonez]

CEOs are as pathetic as unions are. C titles work 70 hours a week. yeah RIGHT! What is your definition of "work"? Man I dont know where you have been working or what little experience you have in corporations but it is far from accurate. CEOs "work" is about as difficult as a real working persons lunch hour! I dont doubt they "work" 70 hours a week. Its just the "work" they do.

And welfare recip's arent much more honerable than the very wealthy CEOs children and wives. Talk about entitlement! Your VERY hypocritical.

Yes, their work is much more valuable and required a lot of training. Not many people have their skills.

 

[whysoserious]

Yes, their work is much more valuable and required a lot of training. Not many people have their skills.

So are surgeons. I don't know many billionaire surgeons.

 

[phattonez]

So are surgeons. I don't know many billionaire surgeons.

Their work isn't as valuable as set by the market. I don't make the rules and neither do you; consumers do.

 

[whysoserious]

Their work isn't as valuable as set by the market. I don't make the rules and neither do you; consumers do.

That's awesome man. I'm glad to know that you admit the market is as phony as to believe that surgeons are less important than CEO's. This is why the market needs controls and the free market is useless.

 

[OscarB63]

So are surgeons. I don't know many billionaire surgeons.

my kid brother is a heart surgeon. he grossed around $400K last year

 

[Nevergolfpar]

That's awesome man. I'm glad to know that you admit the market is as phony as to believe that surgeons are less important than CEO's. This is why the market needs controls and the free market is useless.

Surgeons making less money than CEO's. Hmmmmm..... Do you think that might have something to do with government intervention driving down salaries? If you want to see surgeons make as much money as CEO's then you might consider opening up the medical industry to the free market.

 

[whysoserious]

my kid brother is a heart surgeon. he grossed around $400K last year

A respectable amount for a surgeon to make!

Surgeons making less money than CEO's. Hmmmmm..... Do you think that might have something to do with government intervention driving down salaries? If you want to see surgeons make as much money as CEO's then you might consider opening up the medical industry to the free market.

No. The free market does not get anything right. Surgeons do not have the ability to set their salaries - insurance companies would not pay them.

 

[Nevergolfpar]

my kid brother is a heart surgeon. he grossed around $400K last year

How much did he have to pay for medical malpractice insurance? I'm sure that he paid at least $200K of additional monies to protect himself. Maybe if we unshackled our surgeons from the ever increasing threat of a big plaintiffs verdict their pay levels would be more in line of that of CEO's.

 

[Nevergolfpar]

A respectable amount for a surgeon to make!



No. The free market does not get anything right. Surgeons do not have the ability to set their salaries - insurance companies would not pay them.

Exactly my point, the regulated market never gets it right! That's the problem with you liberals, we point out your fallacies and you are still blind to reality. Your complaint was that surgeons don't make as much as CEO's, yet when I pointed out to you that this is precisely due to the fact that the free market does not exist for surgeons. You do not nor cannot defend your position. Instead, you suggest because Surgeons are regulated, CEO's should be too. With all due respect you sound like one of my children complaining because one got something and the other did not. The only remedy being that neither should have received anything at all.

 

[whysoserious]

Exactly my point, the regulated market never gets it right! That's the problem with you liberals, we point out your fallacies and you are still blind to reality. Your complaint was that surgeons don't make as much as CEO's, yet when I pointed out to you that this is precisely due to the fact that the free market does not exist for surgeons. You do not nor cannot defend your position. Instead, you suggest because Surgeons are regulated, CEO's should be too. With all due respect you sound like one of my children complaining because one got something and the other did not. The only remedy being that neither should have received anything at all.

The free market is in effect for surgeons...? Insurance companies, usually, are the ones responsible for paying doctors/surgeons, because a person by themselves generally cannot afford it in lump sums. If surgeons charged the kind of rates necessary to earn the money we are discussing, insurance companies would not pay it. That's the free market.

Let me break it down for you: insurance companies would not pay it because they can't pay it. Insurance companies get their money from people through these little things called "premiums" (its that thing you pay every month or so). If surgeons required themselves to be paid millions yearly, premiums would be too high and insurance would not be viable.

It's pretty basic math and understanding of business.

 

[Nevergolfpar]

The free market is in effect for surgeons...? Insurance companies, usually, are the ones responsible for paying doctors/surgeons, because a person by themselves generally cannot afford it in lump sums. If surgeons charged the kind of rates necessary to earn the money we are discussing, insurance companies would not pay it. That's the free market.

Let me break it down for you: insurance companies would not pay it because they can't pay it. Insurance companies get their money from people through these little things called "premiums" (its that thing you pay every month or so). If surgeons required themselves to be paid millions yearly, premiums would be too high and insurance would not be viable.

It's pretty basic math and understanding of business.

Thank you for your post, you made it much to easy for me to prove my point.

Aside from some ever increasing burdensome regulations, when you go to Mcdonald's and order a Big Mac are you participating in the free market? When you go and buy a car are you participating in the free market? How about when you decide which college you will attend, is that the free market? For the most part the answer is yes to all the above questions.

Now when you pick your doctor for Gall Bladder surgery are you still participating in the free market? Before you answer, you better think long and hard. At McDonald's I pay the vendor directly for my number 1 meal. When I purchase a car I pay the vendor directly, and when I went to college, I paid my university directly. However, when I pay my doctor, I do not pay him directly. Instead I go through a third party intermediary (insurance companies and Medicare) who dictates how much of my money will go to the doctor for the services I just received. In a previous post did you not state that you are soon to be an Actuary? With all due respect you should understand how insurance companies work better than most. The insurance companies and government are now in the position to dictate price controls over how much money a doctor is able to charge for a gall bladder surgery. When doctors are not able to set their own prices, the free market disappears. Pure and simple.

Now thats a pretty basic understanding of how the free market does and doesn't work.