Mitt Romney

[The_Penguin]

Does it matter? My view is matters of religion should be kept out of the government sphere, especially on the issue of civil rights. Politicians who advertise their faith in an attempt to garner support annoy me.

"kept out of government sphere"? Look, I'm an atheist too, but your beef, to me, doesn't sound with religion in the public sphere, but the fact that the candidate has picked a religion that you don't like.

I'll be happy to walk through your flawed logic for you for a better demonstration .

 

[Warspite]

"kept out of government sphere"? Look, I'm an atheist too, but your beef, to me, doesn't sound with religion in the public sphere, but the fact that the candidate has picked a religion that you don't like.

I'll be happy to walk through your flawed logic for you for a better demonstration .

There are those who state their faith and get on with it, and there are those who flaunt it. Mitt Romney is one of the latter. I don't give a crap if you're a jew, atheist, hindu, or even a satanist - just don't let it get in the way of doing you job as a politician.

 

[The_Penguin]

There are those who state their faith and get on with it, and there are those who flaunt it. Mitt Romney is one of the latter. I don't give a crap if you're a jew, atheist, hindu, or even a satanist - just don't let it get in the way of doing you job as a politician.

And he flaunts his religion how? You'll need to give me proof of this, actual links to reliable sources. Don't recall him giving a commercial where the back of the shelf 'just so happens' to look like a cross.

 

[The_Penguin]

Warspite, here are your arguments just how messed up they are:

I don't like Mormons, especally since he was not publicly that religious until he took the limelight.

In the underlined portion, you just state that you don't like Mormons. No, you didn't say that you disagree with the doctrine of their church or something that some of their leaders said/did, you just said that you didn't like them. It's like me saying that I don't like black people and then doing a piss-poor attempt to weave Jesse Jackson and his antics into that mess.

Same as my beef with other overly religious people; too concerned with the afterlife. Not to mention the proselytism.

Ok, so here you just don't like religious people in general. There are many who are concerned about the after-life and are not zealots or 'overly religious'. That is their personal conviction of what will happen after they die. They generally would like to get into the place that's nicer and try to lead their lives so that they eventually go there.

And no, converting others to their faith is not something that makes them into religious lunatics or being 'overly-religious'. They share their ideas with you, describe why it would be in your advantage and you can either politely tell them that you have no interest in their convictions or ask for more.

Oh yeh, when you become a public individual, your private matters all to often come into the open. I don't think that Romney was looking to make this into some massive hoopla. Hell, he pretty much moved away from the whole damn Tea Party movement when so many others moved towards it with a cross in one hand and a flag in the other.

Does it matter? My view is matters of religion should be kept out of the government sphere, especially on the issue of civil rights. Politicians who advertise their faith in an attempt to garner support annoy me.

I would love to know when Romney 'advertised' his faith? I can't recall when he said: Pssst, I'm Mormon, vote for me. Especially since much of the country is Protestant and tends to view Mormons with suspicion. Seems like a dumb strategy and what some on the Right used to push him aside.

 

[jamesrage]

What says you? He's alright in my book. In light of the governor from New Mexico, he's a midget in comparison . The other thing is that I don't see him making big changes or pushing things (big-time) into the direction where I personally stand. He is, on the other hand, one of the few Republicans that didn't follow the absurd Tea Party movement or Obama-is-a-Muslim-terrorist-with-no-birth-certificate movement or Obama = Socialism/Mao/Hitler movement. He also struck out a moderate route when so many others in the Republican party were just bat**** crazy.

Propping up another liberal for presidential candidate would be a bad mistake for the republican party and conservatives are only fooling themselves if they think a liberal with a "R" next to his name is somehow better that a liberal with a "D" next to his name.

 

[The_Penguin]

Propping up another liberal for presidential candidate would be a bad mistake for the republican party and conservatives are only fooling themselves if they think a liberal with a "R" next to his name is somehow better that a liberal with a "D" next to his name.

Define "liberal" and "conservative"? Also, look at his record as governor and tell me that he's a bad choice on issues such as the economy, health care, environment and foreign policy.

 

[Zinc Route]

***** Those seemingly concerned with getting a Real Republican in 2012 instead of a RINO I suspect have a favorable view of Sarah Palin - and still believe her selection for VP by McCain was an asset:shock:This view is chock full of delusions. More importantly she is unlikely to be the GOP nominee in 3 years and unless there is like a 5 or 6 way split will never be President.

**** Both McCain & Romney in 2007 thought Hillary had a lock on the Democrat nomination. They thought wrong. That was one huge mistake. The 2nd was thinking that those wanting a Christian more than a Winner could not effect things substantially. After Iowa Romney never got the momentum back - and that's one reason Obama is President today.

 

[The_Penguin]

***** Those seemingly concerned with getting a Real Republican in 2012 instead of a RINO I suspect have a favorable view of Sarah Palin - and still believe her selection for VP by McCain was an asset:shock:This view is chock full of delusions. More importantly she is unlikely to be the GOP nominee in 3 years and unless there is like a 5 or 6 way split will never be President.

**** Both McCain & Romney in 2007 thought Hillary had a lock on the Democrat nomination. They thought wrong. That was one huge mistake. The 2nd was thinking that those wanting a Christian more than a Winner could not effect things substantially. After Iowa Romney never got the momentum back - and that's one reason Obama is President today.

I'd love to see Mitt as prez and the New Mexico governor as veep.

I could change my opinion later, but for the moment that would be the *it* ticket.

 

[Cold Highway]

Romney signed Socialist Medicine into Massachusetts and look at the results. He should be nowhere near the White House.

 

[jamesrage]

Define "liberal" and "conservative"?

How has his past actions( not what he claims now)make him a conservative?

- HUMAN EVENTS
8. Gov. Mitt Romney (Mass.)
Has said, “I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country.” Supports civil unions and stringent gun laws. After visiting Houston, he criticized the city’s aesthetics, saying, “This is what happens when you don’t have zoning.”

The Mitt Romney Deception

Also, look at his record as governor and tell me that he's a bad choice on issues such as the economy,

Mitt Romney on the Issues

health care,

Didn't he sign the Massachusetts universal health care plan into law? Since when did conservatives support socialized medicine?

environment

Since when do conservatives believe in the man made global warming fairy tale religion?

Romney favors pact by states on emissions - The Boston Globe

and foreign policy.

Mitt Romney on the Issues
GovWatch: 2005: Called comprehensive reform “reasonable”. (Feb 2008)
Employers have no means of knowing who’s legal & who’s not. (Dec 2007)
No mandatory prison term for employers who hire illegals. (Dec 2007)
FactCheck: Illegals employed at his home, but by contractor. (Nov 2007)
# FactCheck: MA state cops never enforced immigration laws. (Nov 2007)
# FactCheck: Took no action against 4 Mass. sanctuary cities. (Nov 2007)

 

[samsmart]

Propping up another liberal for presidential candidate would be a bad mistake for the republican party and conservatives are only fooling themselves if they think a liberal with a "R" next to his name is somehow better that a liberal with a "D" next to his name.

Romney signed Socialist Medicine into Massachusetts and look at the results. He should be nowhere near the White House.

This is why it's quite unlikely we'll get a moderate Republican into the White House. Moderate Republicans are finding it more and more difficult to get past the primaries.

We'll have a conservative Democrat as President before we have a moderate Republican sit in the White House. Doesn't look so good for the GOP when you think of it in those terms.

 

[Cold Highway]

This is why it's quite unlikely we'll get a moderate Republican into the White House. Moderate Republicans are finding it more and more difficult to get past the primaries.

We'll have a conservative Democrat as President before we have a moderate Republican sit in the White House. Doesn't look so good for the GOP when you think of it in those terms.

Bush Sr was considered a Moderate. In addition the term Moderate is very broad, plus Romney changed his positions more during the primaries than a Vegas stripper.

 

[jamesrage]

This is why it's quite unlikely we'll get a moderate Republican into the White House. Moderate Republicans are finding it more and more difficult to get past the primaries.

Why call them moderate they are liberal.Moderate is a term that closet libs use because they too damned ashamed or embarrassed of being liberal so they call themselves moderate.

We'll have a conservative Democrat as President before we have a moderate Republican sit in the White House. Doesn't look so good for the GOP when you think of it in those terms.

A democrat who is actually conservative is much better than a liberal republican any day of the week and I would gladly vote for a democrat who is a conservative.

 

[samsmart]

What says you? He's alright in my book. In light of the governor from New Mexico, he's a midget in comparison . The other thing is that I don't see him making big changes or pushing things (big-time) into the direction where I personally stand. He is, on the other hand, one of the few Republicans that didn't follow the absurd Tea Party movement or Obama-is-a-Muslim-terrorist-with-no-birth-certificate movement or Obama = Socialism/Mao/Hitler movement. He also struck out a moderate route when so many others in the Republican party were just bat**** crazy.

Unlike most other previous Republican Presidents, Mitt Romney would likely campaign on domestic and economic issues rather than foreign policy, which the GOP is better known for. Considering the state of global affairs, this worries me. To balance the ticket, he'll probably have someone with strong ties to foreign and military affairs.

To be honest with you, I like none of any of the current GOP prospects, but Romney may be one I could stand better than any of the others.

 

[samsmart]

Why call them moderate they are liberal.Moderate is a term that closet libs use because they too damned ashamed or embarrassed of being liberal so they call themselves moderate.

See what I mean?

 

[jamesrage]

Bush Sr was considered a Moderate. In addition the term Moderate is very broad, plus Romney changed his positions more during the primaries than a Vegas stripper.

I am not the only one calling Romney a republican version of John Kerry.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/25469-romney-tough-sell-many-u-s-christians.html


d.c.podhaskie: Mitt Romney: The Republican John Kerry

 

[samsmart]

Bush Sr was considered a Moderate.

Yeah, and he has my utmost respect for it too.

 

[Zinc Route]

See what I mean?

****** I do see It's why some on the Conservative side are more interested in devouring themselves rather than fully taking on the opposition. Now this Obama Health care fiasco and a few other curren things seem to say otherwise because the GOP is united - but the zealots - those who really believe there should be a Constitutional Amendment banning abortion and who think their Gun racks are saving the Republic - they will at this woeful point settle for nothing short of purity. Throw in those simply wanting a "Christian" They amount to less than 10% probably of the National Electorate, but possibly a full Third of GOP regular Primary Voters. In short their myopia paves the way for defeat.

 

[jamesrage]

****** I do see It's why some on the Conservative side are more interested in devouring themselves rather than fully taking on the opposition.

Weeding out the phonies is not devouring themselves and I am pretty sure that if a pro-2nd amendment,anti-abortion,anti-gay marriage,anti-socialized medicine, Anti-illegal immigration, Pro-military/pro-Iraq war, democrat who doesn't believe in the man made global warming fairy tale was running as a liberal or trying to run a moderate the libs would eat him alive.

 

[Zinc Route]

**** I'm sure YOU are correct. They Would eat him up - but We hopefully are more mature with better standards of decency, understanding and some real vision.

 

[jamesrage]

**** I'm sure YOU are correct. They Would eat him up - but We hopefully are more mature with better standards of decency, understanding and some real vision.

The point is it is foolish for people to sit there and pretend that if the shoe was on the other foot that they wouldn't be doing the same thing. Libs would handle it the same way their conservative counterparts are handling it.

 

[Zinc Route]

**** I wouldn't be doing the same thing - but I'd make an exception for Arlen Specter.

 

[the makeout hobo]

I think Romney has a better chance of winning the general than any Republican out there. However, the zeitgeist on the right seems to be for a true believer, which he doesn't fill to their satisfaction.

 

[samsmart]

The point is it is foolish for people to sit there and pretend that if the shoe was on the other foot that they wouldn't be doing the same thing. Libs would handle it the same way their conservative counterparts are handling it.

Yeah, Democrats absolutely hate conservatives, which is why there's a whole caucus of them in the Democratic Party.

 

[The_Penguin]

How has his past actions( not what he claims now)make him a conservative?

James, you effectively gave me enough material to counter all your points . They, in effect, prove you wrong.

- HUMAN EVENTS
8. Gov. Mitt Romney (Mass.)
Has said, “I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country.” Supports civil unions and stringent gun laws. After visiting Houston, he criticized the city’s aesthetics, saying, “This is what happens when you don’t have zoning.”

Romney has been a strong supporter of both Second Amendment rights as well as certain pieces of gun control legislation. He has backed the Brady Bill, a five-day waiting period on gun sales, and a ban on certain assault weapons that he viewed as posing a threat to Policex.[133] Romney has supported legislation that was endorsed by the National Rifle Association and the Gun Owners' Action League.[134] Romney also says he believes that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms, rather than merely protecting a right of states.[135]

Mitt Romney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

States, as opposed to the federal government, have the right to impose certain gun-control legislation. Romney was not out of line.

The Mitt Romney Deception

I'm going to file that site in the same category as I file Democratic Underground: wastebasket

Mitt Romney on the Issues

Did you even read this?

Raised service fees like highway ads, from $200 to $2,000. (Jan 2008)
Fees are appropriate for the government to provide services. (Jan 2008)
I support the Bush tax cuts. (Jan 2008)
Avoid recession with immediate middle-income tax cuts. (Jan 2008)
Raised $240M in MA fees, but only covering cost of services. (Jan 2008)
Zero tax rate on capital gains, for incomes up to $200,000. (Jan 2008)
Lowering taxes, like Bush tax cuts, grows the economy. (Jan 2008)
FactCheck: Never opposed 2003 Bush cuts, but never supported. (Jan 2008)
Reduce the tax burden on middle-income families. (Dec 2007)
Signed no-tax pledge; Dems pledge to raise taxes. (Sep 2007)
Death tax just doesn’t make sense. (Aug 2007)
Commission studied FairTax and found serious flaws. (Aug 2007)
Pledges no new taxes in 2007 after refusing pledge in 2002. (May 2007)
FactCheck: Did not raise MA taxes, but DID raise MA fees. (May 2007)
End taxes on interests, dividends & capital gains. (May 2007)
My pledge: no freeze on tax rollback. (Mar 2002)
Pledges not to raise taxes. (Nov 1994)

He raised fees on people and businesses that use services, not the taxes of individuals. He, in effect, implemented a crude consumption tax, not a tax on incomes or savings. If anything, he did things right here.

Didn't he sign the Massachusetts universal health care plan into law? Since when did conservatives support socialized medicine?

So what? States, by the constitution, are responsible for the social issues of this country.

Since when do conservatives believe in the man made global warming fairy tale religion?

Since when do Conservatives ignore the environment in favor of policies that give a modicum of economic benefit while destroying the environment around them?

Theodore Roosevelt was a great man. He founded our first National Parks. He was the man who said that you should speak softly and carry a big stick (which, in this world, a policy I like.) He was also a Republican.

And yes, our emissions are screwing us over. There's no such thing in this world as having no consequences for your actions, none.

Romney favors pact by states on emissions - The Boston Globe

Good, I approve.

Mitt Romney on the Issues
GovWatch: 2005: Called comprehensive reform “reasonable”. (Feb 2008)
Employers have no means of knowing who’s legal & who’s not. (Dec 2007)
No mandatory prison term for employers who hire illegals. (Dec 2007)
FactCheck: Illegals employed at his home, but by contractor. (Nov 2007)
# FactCheck: MA state cops never enforced immigration laws. (Nov 2007)
# FactCheck: Took no action against 4 Mass. sanctuary cities. (Nov 2007)

Again, look through your list:

GovWatch: 2005: Called comprehensive reform “reasonable”. (Feb 2008)
Deport illegal immigrants in 90 days under the ideal setting. (Jan 2008)
Found Z-visa & McCain-Kennedy bill to be offensive. (Jan 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, his ads DID accuse McCain of “amnesty”. (Jan 2008)
Illegal immigrants should go home eventually. (Dec 2007)
No mandatory prison term for employers who hire illegals. (Dec 2007)
AdWatch: Huckabee ok’ed tuition & scholarships for illegals. (Dec 2007)
FactCheck: Took hard-line on illegals, but only late in term. (Dec 2007)
Welcome the people who have been standing in line first. (Dec 2007)
Employers have no means of knowing who’s legal & who’s not. (Dec 2007)
Avoid chain migration; disallow families from one citizen. (Dec 2007)
Illegal immigrants shouldn’t get tuition break in schools. (Nov 2007)
FactCheck: Illegals employed at his home, but by contractor. (Nov 2007)
AdWatch: No driver’s license & in-state tuition for illegals. (Nov 2007)
FactCheck: MA state cops never enforced immigration laws. (Nov 2007)
FactCheck: Took no action against 4 Mass. sanctuary cities. (Nov 2007)
Reduce federal funding to sanctuary cities. (Sep 2007)
Z-visa is not technically amnesty; but is in fact amnesty. (Sep 2007)
FactCheck: NYC never declared itself a “sanctuary city”. (Sep 2007)
Make America more attractive for legal immigrants. (Aug 2007)
Priorities: secure border, employer verification, no amnesty. (Aug 2007)
Enforce the law against 12 million illegals here now. (Jun 2007)
Proposed Z visa allows illegal aliens to stay in America. (Jun 2007)
Make English national language; communicate in Spanish too. (Jun 2007)
McCain’s plan gives special pathway to those here illegally. (May 2007)
Keep rule barring immigrants from running for president. (May 2007)
The 12 million illegal immigrants can’t stay forever. (Jan 2006)
Unfair to allow all illegal immigrants to stay. (Jan 2006)
Tuition breaks encourage illegal immigration. (Nov 2005)

The underlined points are things that I'm guessing that you will support (if not, then go through them one by one and give me your feedback.) Now look at the not underlined ones. How does that make him a RINO? He's not a social conservative? Look, we know what happens when social conservatism is at the core of your issues, you get 2008.