Min Wage: Where did 15/hr come from?

[azgreg]

What would the federal min wage be now if it was linked to inflation from the get go?

 

[ludin]

So what on earth makes you think that a head chef won't demand more pay than a line cook? What makes you think an IT admin won't demand more pay than a help desk guy? I certainly would! If they've got more valuable skills, they'll expect higher remuneration even if the minimum wage increases. They'll probably get it too, because more money in consumers' pockets means more profits for their companies.

You can demand all you want to. what CA did was devalue the job skills of thousands of people.
they will try and demand more money but that doesn't mean their companies have to pay it.

just like that one guy that raised his pay to 70k for everyone. he told all the people already making that or more
tough crap. I have a feeling that employers in CA will do the same thing.

that shift supervisory making 15 will continue to make 15 the same as the burger flipper.
he can demand all he wants doesn't mean they have to pay.

then again you could see economic scaling kick in. which would lead to massive pay increases for everyone along with massive
price increases.

something will have to give as companies will simply shut down or move.

And I'm sure if you were living in India (or 60 years ago) you'd be insisting that a mere line cook couldn't possibly be worth $7 an hour :lol:

the only reason they are making 5.15 is because government forced a minimum wage increase overall.
if they make it 15. it will require additional schooling to get a basic job.

15 an hour is entry level professional pay.

 

[ludin]

Wahh it cuts into profit, if you do this i'll go throw a hissy fit !!

Whoopty doo, they can and should take their business elsewhere if it must exploit deflated labor costs to cut a profit.

they don't have to.
maybe they simply can't afford to pay people that much.

you can only charge so much for a burger.
you can only charge so much for hardware supplies.

you can only charge so much for a book.
this is basic business 101.

 

[Absentglare]

Businesses have a right to take legal steps to protect their profits. My point is that you're wrong that increasing the MW won't effect jobs. Hours get cut so you may be making more an hour but you're getting less hours. So great you're working mess for the same amount of money, but you're not making more money overall. Full time positions get eliminated, as full time employees leave the position becomes part time and job responsibilities get re-organized. Many large corporations will immediately put a hiring freeze into effect.

Time is money.

If poor people don't have to work as many hours for the same pay, they can spend more time shopping smarter, doing research, looking for other jobs, developing skills, or simply care for their children more.

These threats won't perturb me- having businesses feel a small amount of temporary pain as they adjust is not a valid reason to continue with a bad system.

 

[Absentglare]

What would the federal min wage be now if it was linked to inflation from the get go?

Probably just over half what it is today.

 

[Absentglare]

they don't have to.
maybe they simply can't afford to pay people that much.

you can only charge so much for a burger.
you can only charge so much for hardware supplies.

you can only charge so much for a book.
this is basic business 101.

Of course it is.

And they calculated that DOUBLING the minimum wage could be paid for with a 4.3% cost increase in the fast food industry. 100% wage increase, 4.3% cost increase. What this is showing is that the minimum wage laborer's wages is a pitifully small portion of the overall costs of these goods and services.

 

[RetiredUSN]

'cept of course many in the lower pay scale bracket are not young parents, they come from across the age range. I'd opine that 90% of those barfing about increasing the minimum wage have not run a business either.

The angry old guy answer solves nothing as we all subsidize lower income families through public assistance.

What many who decry raising the minimum wage don't seem to know is many big box retail and fast food companies have already raised their starting wage. They find they can't attract good employees for 7.25. They find themselves constantly training new people as the ones who work for 7.25 are not reliable and those who are reliable are always looking for a new ship to jump to.

Walmart has gone from using public assistance as part of their employees income to around 10 bucks an hour here in Lawton Ok. they are finally learning it is bad PR to use welfare as an income multiplier and many good workers turn their nose up at minimum wage and work elsewhere.

It is about time the minimum wage catches up with reality, a few angry old guys aside... eace

Aim low.... achieve mediocrity. And to call me angry? I have too many good things going on in my life to be angry. I earned every bit of it because I got off my ass and achieved it rather than relying on public assistance.

 

[Groogrux]

Time is money.

If poor people don't have to work as many hours for the same pay, they can spend more time shopping smarter, doing research, looking for other jobs, developing skills, or simply care for their children more.

These threats won't perturb me- having businesses feel a small amount of temporary pain as they adjust is not a valid reason to continue with a bad system.

The system will only get worse for unskilled workers if the MW takes a massive hike.

 

[azgreg]

Probably just over half what it is today.

Maybe inflation was the wrong thing. I was thinking of the CPI. In that case it would be closer to $11 today.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

then why not make it 50 an hour then or 100.

no the law isn't justified. the law is absurd and CA will soon see the cost of this.
less jobs more people fired high prices on everything else.

Ah everyone's favorite absurd counter arguments.

The right has been promising economic collapse for every workplace protection ever suggested, it hasn't happened yet

 

[Absentglare]

The system will only get worse for unskilled workers if the MW takes a massive hike.

Based on .........?

 

[Deuce]

What would the federal min wage be now if it was linked to inflation from the get go?

Adjusting for inflation, minimum wage peaked in the 1960s and would currently be 9-something if it pegged to inflation from there, IIRC.

 

[Mithrae]

You can demand all you want to. what CA did was devalue the job skills of thousands of people.
they will try and demand more money but that doesn't mean their companies have to pay it.

just like that one guy that raised his pay to 70k for everyone. he told all the people already making that or more
tough crap. I have a feeling that employers in CA will do the same thing.

that shift supervisory making 15 will continue to make 15 the same as the burger flipper.
he can demand all he wants doesn't mean they have to pay.

then again you could see economic scaling kick in. which would lead to massive pay increases for everyone along with massive
price increases.

A <9% increase per year for six years as they're doing in California is hardly a massive increase. As you say, many if not most higher level jobs will likely be boosted too - how else will employees be encouraged to take on additional responsibilities or training requirements? - albeit perhaps not by as much as the overall 50% increase to MW. That's a good thing.

And yes, prices will rise too. That's also not a bad thing. Again, if you were living in India or 60 years ago, wouldn't you be claiming it's impossible for entry level workers to be worth $7 an hour (or $10 as they currently are in California)? Dollar values are entirely relative to supply and demand. If the expense of wages were 20% of companies' revenue across the board, a 50% wage increase for all tiers across the board would require only a ~10% increases in prices to cover. (Actually a bit more, because wholesalers' price increases would be further passed on to retailers etc.; but still definitely less than 20% for an end product.)

50% wage increase, 20% price increase. Businesses keep their profits, workers have more money - who is losing in that deal? But since that would mean a lot more disposable income in consumers' pockets, most likely there would be more spending and in turn more business profits, economic growth and employment opportunities.

As long as the increases are implemented gradually enough for consumers' behaviour to keep pace, of course.



I should mention that the one-size-fits-all approach of mandated minimum wages isn't necessarily the best approach, though it may be useful as a baseline to work from. But needs may vary between occupations and sectors, and mechanisms for collective bargaining between employers and employees with some giving here and taking there would allow more nuances in the final result. I believe Absentglare and EMNofSeattle already mentioned something along those lines earlier in the thread.


But in my opinion the MW discussion has (or should have) nothing to do with a 'living wage': People can live on a lot less if they choose :lol: It should be about A) ensuring that employment is preferable to welfare and more importantly B) the general benefits to the economy of a stronger consumer base.

 

[KevinKohler]

Businesses have a right to take legal steps to protect their profits. My point is that you're wrong that increasing the MW won't effect jobs. Hours get cut so you may be making more an hour but you're getting less hours. So great you're working mess for the same amount of money, but you're not making more money overall. Full time positions get eliminated, as full time employees leave the position becomes part time and job responsibilities get re-organized. Many large corporations will immediately put a hiring freeze into effect.

No they wont. Hasn't happened at my place, and min wage has gone up 3 times. The only thing that cause what you have described was AHCA.

 

[Carjosse]

Businesses have a right to take legal steps to protect their profits. My point is that you're wrong that increasing the MW won't effect jobs. Hours get cut so you may be making more an hour but you're getting less hours. So great you're working mess for the same amount of money, but you're not making more money overall. Full time positions get eliminated, as full time employees leave the position becomes part time and job responsibilities get re-organized. Many large corporations will immediately put a hiring freeze into effect.

If all that is standing between a business and bankruptcy is few dollars an hour for their employees, they shouldn't be in business anyways.

 

[radcen]

If all that is standing between a business and bankruptcy is few dollars an hour for their employees, they shouldn't be in business anyways.

I see this sentiment a lot in these types of arguments and it is the most arrogant and boneheaded and wrong headed argument there can be.

A business, even one on the edge, is still a viable business and is still contributing to the community by providing a product and/or service, providing employment, paying taxes, and so on..

Being on the edge is not necessarily a permanent condition

The government shouldn't be enacting laws that serve to drive potentially successful businesses out of business.

 

[Carjosse]

I see this sentiment a lot in these types of arguments and it is the most arrogant and boneheaded and wrong headed argument there can be.

A business, even one on the edge, is still a viable business and is still contributing to the community by providing a product and/or service, providing employment, paying taxes, and so on..

Being on the edge is not necessarily a permanent condition

The government shouldn't be enacting laws that serve to drive potentially successful businesses out of business.

Not necessarily permanent, but if it is not wages, it will be something at some point. The cost of materials can go up, cost of capital can go up, just in this case it would be labour.

 

[radcen]

Not necessarily permanent, but if it is not wages, it will be something at some point. The cost of materials can go up, cost of capital can go up, just in this case it would be labour.

You don't know that. You say that as if it's a foregone conclusion.

Sometimes a business may fail anyway, sometimes a business is just "weathering a storm". As such, any failure should be natural, not government-induced.

 

[gdgyva]

I don't really care for the "well then get paid more, idiot !!" argument.

We're talking about the justification for a minimum wage increase.

The argument is that it could help ensure that working class Americans were able to rely less upon public assistance. Why are we subsidizing fast food profits ...?

Is every minimum wage job in fast food?

I don't think even 60percent of them are....

How many are just low wage jobs in mom & pop stores across the country?

Whether in hardware stores, or parts stores, or retail....

How many of those jobs do you want to go away?

 

[Carjosse]

You don't know that. You say that as if it's a foregone conclusion.

Sometimes a business may fail anyway, sometimes a business is just "weathering a storm". As such, any failure should be natural, not government-induced.

But by that logic we should just never raise the minimum wage ever for any reason, which is just stupid.

 

[woodsman]

Sure there is.

Even in Arkansas, people need to be paid more than $14/hr to make a "living wage." 40% of working Americans are paid less than $15/hr.

"In this report, living wages are calculated on the basis of family budgets for several household types. Family budgets include basic necessities, such as food, housing, utilities, transportation, health care, child care, clothing and other personal items, savings, and state and federal taxes. This assumes full-time work on a year- round basis."

http://allianceforajustsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Pay-Up-Revised-FINAL.pdf

I think the phrase minimum wage is misunderstood, It should mean a starting wage. The term “living wage” is nonsense in the context of a starting wage. If you want to succeed, get educated, academically/ trades or be willing to work darn hard.

It took me just one pay check when I was 13 to figure out I wasn’t going to settle for it. By the time I was 16 I was making more than my father. My jobs or I guess you could call it my hustle consisted of making a deal with the local pet store to catch salt water fish for aquariums, cleaning out water hazards on golf courses and reselling the balls giving a cut to the club, Garage and basement cleaning, landscaping, painting, store trips for the local elderly. All those jobs were done before and after school or on weekends. My work vehicle was my schwinn bicycle.

I can say this with certainty, If your young healthy and present yourself reasonably well you can make money. I really don’t want to make this post an example of I did it so can you, or pull yourself up from your boot straps type of thing but maybe that’s exactly what’s needed with todays instant gratification wanting society. Know this, for those starting there work career, If you are spending hours on social media or boards such as this and are whining you don’t make a decent wage It’s laughable.

 

[radcen]

But by that logic we should just never raise the minimum wage ever for any reason, which is just stupid.

Not as stupid as saying a business weathering a storm doesn't deserve to stay in business.

And, no, that wasn't my point, but I understand why you reverted back to that.

 

[Carjosse]

I think the phrase minimum wage is misunderstood, It should mean a starting wage. The term “living wage” is nonsense in the context of a starting wage. If you want to succeed, get educated, academically/ trades or be willing to work darn hard.

It took me just one pay check when I was 13 to figure out I wasn’t going to settle for it. By the time I was 16 I was making more than my father. My jobs or I guess you could call it my hustle consisted of making a deal with the local pet store to catch salt water fish for aquariums, cleaning out water hazards on golf courses and reselling the balls giving a cut to the club, Garage and basement cleaning, landscaping, painting, store trips for the local elderly. All those jobs were done before and after school or on weekends. My work vehicle was my schwinn bicycle.

I can say this with certainty, If your young healthy and present yourself reasonably well you can make money. I really don’t want to make this post an example of I did it so can you, or pull yourself up from your boot straps type of thing but maybe that’s exactly what’s needed with todays instant gratification wanting society. Know this, for those starting there work career, If you are spending hours on social media or boards such as this and are whining you don’t make a decent wage It’s laughable.

That is not how the job market works anymore. There are just not jobs waiting for you everywhere anymore. Maybe you can find something but it will definitely not be good money.

 

[Groogrux]

If all that is standing between a business and bankruptcy is few dollars an hour for their employees, they shouldn't be in business anyways.

Bullsh*t. Many small business owners do what they because they are passionate about it. It's not so much about the profits for them as being able to stay in business. So great raise the minimum wage, but understand that many small business owners will just shrink their staff to make up the difference.

 

[Groogrux]

No they wont. Hasn't happened at my place, and min wage has gone up 3 times. The only thing that cause what you have described was AHCA.

It's been happening for years in my organization. Minimum wage has gone up twice, each time part time hours were cut to make up the difference. When the ACA went into effect all part time positions hade to be 28 hours or less and full time director positions turn into part time director positions as soon as the full time employee quits.