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Marine Corps. vs Army

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bhkad said:
My best PFT score was 24:50 run, 100 sit-ups and 3 pull-ups.
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.........3 dude? Sit ups were back in the "kipping" days you should have been cranking out 20.
 
GySgt said:
.........3 dude? Sit ups were back in the "kipping" days you should have been cranking out 20.
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Not to mention that a 24:50 time is a 3-mile "walk", not a run.
 
GySgt said:
I remeber this. I showed where there are more marines in danger of combat deaths than the Army and showed where the overwhleming awards for bravery were going to the Army.

But dying in an active combat role vice dying because you are untrained for convoy conduct or because you don't see the sense in a proper defensive position are two seperate things. I compare it to driving in a crash derby. Most in the red jerseys are driving in the thick of it and are involved in most of the crashes. But the ones in the blue jerseys are driving outside the crowd, but some choose not to wear their seat belts.....or even know they are supposed to. The red jerseys are in a more dangerous situation, but the blue jerseys are making their situations more dangerous still by virtue of not doing what they are supposed to do.
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Would you mind giving an example or 2 of how Marine rifle training, day for day, is better than Army training? Obviously more range time is a benefit, but I'm wondering how the Marines train recruits differently in basic. If you could give a technical example I would appreciate it.
 
My best PFT score was 24:50 run, 100 sit-ups and 3 pull-ups.
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Hmm. I never heard of a woman who could beat that.

/ pokes the "no females in combat" proponents.


No, seriously, bhkad...? I admire people who tell the truth.
Very much. Especially when a lie would've been believed.
I've known many, many former soldiers. Some who were in combat MOSs.
Few of them were unusually physically fit.
 
Jerry said:
That's what I keep saying, that you don't seem to get. Marines are different. They are on the level of Army spec-ops.
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You don't know jack about the Marines, you don't know jack about the Army, and you don't know jack about "spec-ops". You have zero knowledge of any of these things. Your opinion on the Marines or what units they are comparable to means absolutely nothing because you know absolutely nothing.

I wonder how you can claim to be in the Marines and not yet get this simple concept.
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I can claim to be in the Marines because I was in the Marines. You do not get to educate me on something you know absolutely nothing about.

Of course the average Marine is better than the average Soldier, the Marine has had more and better training. That's why when a soldier beats a Marine in a personal contest, the soldier walks away with a Marine token, but when the Marine wins, the Marine doesn't want an Army token. This is why there's an 'honorary Marine', but not an 'honorary Soldier' (unless it's something given to, say, a Boy Scout for PR purposes).
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What the hell are you talking about?

Comparing the average Marine to the average Soldier is comparing apples and oranges. If you're a Marine and you realy think you can bring it, compare yourself to an Army spec-ops.
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Spec-ops! Oooooh! Man, you really got me there Jerry. Let me tell you a story...in SOI (school of infantry) we had a former Ranger in our class. We all asked him, why did you switch services? His reply:

"Because I want to get some!"

Even the Rangers don't agree with you.

When a Marine compares himself to the average soldier, it only shows a lack of confidence in the Marine, for why else would he start with easy contests but to build up to a real challenge.
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I don't need to compare myself to anyone. I'm just informing you as to the facts.

When Marines compare themselves to the Army, the entire premise of that comparison is that the Marine and Army should be on the same level, and that the Army is lacking in some way.

Yes, the Marines do not have people who only do administration, because the Marines have the luxury of the Navy. The Army stands alone, and that level of independence and self sufficiency means that not every Solder will be a rifleman first.



What you describe is the standard, nothing special at all when you're talking about Marines. You have had more and better training, so when you moved in, being better than an Army cook was expected.
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I have no idea what you're talking about, and I thought I made it painfully clear that I was NOT replacing Army cooks. They were Army infantry. Non-combat MOS's do not set up COP's in the middle of hostile territory.

I have no idea what "trophies" you're talking about here. Feel free to school me.

The Army is increasing it's numbers and reorganizing to become faster. Have you fought with any Soldiers who went through the new Army boot? Sure, all you hear is how they toned down the yelling, but did you know they now have a 20something day desert FTX; with much more training on countering ambushes and IEDs. Another change: whereas in the early '90s Soldiers were issued their M16 around the 3rd-4th week of BCT, they are now issued it right away, begin marksmanship earlier, and for a longer amount of time.

Granted, these and similar changes still do not rise to the level of Marine BCT, but I wonder if your experience reflect those changes.
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The Marines are a more effective combat force than the Army, even their SF, it's just a fact. The only similarity between Army Rangers and infantry Marines is their post-basic training. We have roughly similar tactics and goals, but what they lack is the value system and discipline of a Marine. Not saying there aren’t some great Rangers or great Army dogs but when it comes down to it the Marines are going to locate and close with the enemy better than the rest.
 
GySgt said:
.........3 dude? Sit ups were back in the "kipping" days you should have been cranking out 20.
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Everyone has a challenge. Everyone has a strength and a weakness in life.

I don't know what "kipping" means.
 
1069 said:
Hmm. I never heard of a woman who could beat that.

/ pokes the "no females in combat" proponents.


No, seriously, bhkad...? I admire people who tell the truth.
Very much. Especially when a lie would've been believed.
I've known many, many former soldiers. Some who were in combat MOSs.
Few of them were unusually physically fit.
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When I was in the Army I wasn't at that level of fitness.
 
Ethereal said:
You don't know jack about the Marines, you don't know jack about the Army, and you don't know jack about "spec-ops". You have zero knowledge of any of these things. Your opinion on the Marines or what units they are comparable to means absolutely nothing because you know absolutely nothing.
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I've given links to material where I get some info from, and other service members have concurred with things I've said, so just shut the **** up :2wave:

We've moved on to more intelligent conversation, feel free to join us, or not.
 
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celticlord said:
Marines vs Army. Enough said.
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I was in the Army and the Marine Corps and I have always said the Corps was the superior service so what does your post mean? If you are looking to make an enemy you are doing a good job.
 
celticlord said:
16:30 on the run, 110 sit ups, 18 pull ups
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That would give you a modern score of 100/100/90, which is 65 points higher than required to achieve Class 1 standards for 17-26 y/o.

Outstanding!

It's worth pointing out that a Marine can score low in one category and make up for it in another category, whereas if a Soldier scores low in any category, s/he fails the entire test.
 
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Jerry said:
That would give you a modern score of 100/100/90, which is 65 points higher than required to achieve Class 1 standards for 17-26 y/o.

Outstanding!

It's worth pointing out that a Marine can score low in one category and make up for it in another category, whereas if a Soldier scores low in any category, s/he fails the entire test.
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But there are minimums in each section. I think 30:00 was the maximum time allowed in the run even if you maxxed the other two parts. And 3 pull-ups was the minimum allowable. I don't know what the sit up minimum was.
 
bhkad said:
But there are minimums in each section. I think 30:00 was the maximum time allowed in the run even if you maxxed the other two parts. And 3 pull-ups was the minimum allowable. I don't know what the sit up minimum was.
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Minimum pull-ups is 3, min crunches is 40, longest allowable time is 33minuets.
 
What always struck me about Marines is their near perfect uniformity, and I mean beyond military matters, every one of them is damn near a perfect copy of the guy next to him. Its actually kind of disturbing. Also Marines seem to be much more single minded in their thought process. By that I mean they fixate on whatever is the simplest to understand solution to a problem, but not necessarily the best solution.
But on the other hand Ive met and worked with Marines that put many of my fellow soldiers to shame. I knew this CPT in 1st Cav that was one of the best leaders I'd ever seen, this guy was like the Jesus Christ of Ft. Lewis, every time he came around we all instantly felt better about whatever we were doing and worked twice as hard as it because we didnt want to disappoint him. Anyway he left the Army and joined the Marines, I seriously wanted to follow him. I also trained with this Lance Corporal, I wish I could remember his name, on a few FTXs. He couldn't find his way around a map and compass to save his life but had an amazing ability to make the craziest **** out of whatever he found on the ground and had in his pocket.

Anyway I personally prefer the Army because I tend to understand soldiers more than Marines, and of course its in-line with my career goals.
 
Ethereal said:
The Marines are a more effective combat force than the Army, even their SF, it's just a fact. The only similarity between Army Rangers and infantry Marines is their post-basic training. We have roughly similar tactics and goals, but what they lack is the value system and discipline of a Marine. Not saying there aren’t some great Rangers or great Army dogs but when it comes down to it the Marines are going to locate and close with the enemy better than the rest.
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Why did you get out of the Marines then Ethereal? You seem so infatuated with them. =)
 
I tell you what. The other night I ran to the grocery store to pick up something for my pregnant wife's latest craving. Anyway, a solider in the US Army walked past me. Now I know that in the Army you can wear your camoflauge utilities out in public(Marines couldn't while I was in). But the cammies were 1. Dirty and wrinkled. 2. Filled out by a very fat girl. Not just a gal who was a little chunky, or might have had a couple of kids and let her body get away from her, but just plain fat. Just a horrible representation of your branch.

And to top it all off, she was walking around in uniform, with an ipod on.
 
I don't want to piss on anyone's fire but a little story for you. When Desert Storm finished and we had time to kill my infantry Regiment had a competition with an adjacent Marine unit [not sure which]. Basically we both entered 3 teams on a March-pull a 4tonne truck and finish with a shoot. We came first/second and fourth. I just remember the Marine unit being full of huge, weight trained guys dragging each other on the run spread out over some considerable distance, just saying like:lol:

Paul
 
WI Crippler said:
I tell you what. The other night I ran to the grocery store to pick up something for my pregnant wife's latest craving. Anyway, a solider in the US Army walked past me. Now I know that in the Army you can wear your camoflauge utilities out in public(Marines couldn't while I was in). But the cammies were 1. Dirty and wrinkled. 2. Filled out by a very fat girl. Not just a gal who was a little chunky, or might have had a couple of kids and let her body get away from her, but just plain fat. Just a horrible representation of your branch.

And to top it all off, she was walking around in uniform, with an ipod on.
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Can you not by camouflage gear in civilian stores?

Paul
 
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