Jon Stewart benefited by 829% ‘overvalue’ of his NYC home even as he labels Trump’s civil case ‘not victimless’

[daeler]

Of course it is.

I get the confusion, but what they did wasn't a valuation, they just assumed Trump lied.

You don't get to tell them how you think they should have done their valuations or how they should run their bank.

Troll comment. I wasn't trying to tell the bank what to do and you know that. be better please.

 

[Taylor]

I get the confusion, but what they did wasn't a valuation,

Of course it was.

Troll comment. I wasn't trying to tell the bank what to do and you know that. be better please.

You are trying to claim it wasn't a valuation because they didn't do what you wanted them to do. Sorry, you don't get to tell them how to run their business.

 

[Paradoxical]

The lender is not on the hook for verifying the validity of what the customer says. Certainly it's a good business practice but the onus is on Trump not to lie. An analogous situation would be if you left your front door open and some stole your property. Sure you should close the door but that doesn't relieve the thief of the requirement to not steal your stuff.

Below is a link to the AG's complaint. It makes clear that we aren't talking about a "disagreement" in valuations but rather about the Trump Org inflating Trumps net worth by billions of dollars every year for at least a decade in order to get favorable loan and insurance terms.

You should read it. It's an interesting document.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22670311-nyag-v-trump-et-al

How does inflating the values of your property get you favorable insurance terms? I can't think of any reason whatsoever that he would get a better rate or terms on a building he overvalued. If anything he would pay much higher premiums because if you insure a building for 200 million and it's worth just $150 million you are paying a premium(s) that is substantially higher than you need to. I think the "favorable insurance terms" is a bogus claim.

I have a vintage car in pristine condition, garaged. I say it's worth $250,000.

A former cab driver, professional leftwing radical protester now judge says it's with only $150,000. and he even gets some pot-smoking car "expert" he knows from Berkely to say so and he wouldn't pay that much because his VW 1960s wagon gets him around just fine.

Am I guilty of fraud?

 

[daeler]

Of course it was.


You are trying to claim it wasn't a valuation because they didn't do what you wanted them to do. Sorry, you don't get to tell them how to run their business.

Let me know if you want honest debate, otherwise have a great day.

 

[Taylor]

I have a vintage car in pristine condition, garaged. I say it's worth $250,000.

A former cab driver, professional leftwing radical protester now judge says it's with only $150,000. and he even gets some pot-smoking car "expert" he knows from Berkely to say so and he wouldn't pay that much because his VW 1960s wagon gets him around just fine.

Am I guilty of fraud?

This is where the appeal gets interesting. There doesn't seem to be any real evidence that they received "favorable loan terms" as a result of the valuation - the damages imposed are purely speculative because no one has claimed they were defrauded.

 

[trixare4kids]

How does inflating the values of your property get you favorable insurance terms? I can't think of any reason whatsoever that he would get a better rate or terms on a building he overvalued.

It doesn't.
If anything it would get you a higher premium because it would be commensurate with a higher rebuilding cost.

If anything he would pay much higher premiums because if you insure a building for 200 million and it's worth just $150 million you are paying a premium(s) that is substantially higher than you need to. I think the "favorable insurance terms" is a bogus claim.

It is.

I have a vintage car in pristine condition, garaged. I say it's worth $250,000.

A former cab driver, professional leftwing radical protester now judge says it's with only $150,000. and he even gets some pot-smoking car "expert" he knows from Berkely to say so and he wouldn't pay that much because his VW 1960s wagon gets him around just fine.

Am I guilty of fraud?

Nope. A vintage car, much like the Mar A Lago mansion, a vintage property would be insured differently than ordinary, mainstream cars and homes.

 

[Overitall]

this is called capitalism.

In the case of a leftist doing what Trump has been accused of you call it Capitalism. That's a classic example of what's wrong with leftists -- rules for thee, but not for us.

 

[Paradoxical]

This is where the appeal gets interesting. There doesn't seem to be any real evidence that they received "favorable loan terms" as a result of the valuation - the damages imposed are purely speculative because no one has claimed they were defrauded.

The judge is a former left wing radical PROTESTER and cabbie. He is as left as they come. I can't find what, if any, experience he has in commercial real estate or insurance, or any cases he has handled at all.

If I run an insurance company, the rates are set on the building based on the type of construction, location, and square footage along with the amenities such as elevators, floor coverings. you don't get a "better" rate depending on who you know or your name. If you "inflate" the value of your property, it works against you because then you pay a premium that is higher. If the charges are that Trump got a "better deal" on insurance because he inflated his values, then Edgeron doesn't know what he's talking about.

And, as you said, he did not get a better rate from the bank because he "lied" in his paperwork. The bank disregarded his paperwork. Why people don't understand this baffles me and shows the dumbing down of society.

 

[Paradoxical]

It doesn't.
If anything it would get you a higher premium because it would be commensurate with a higher rebuilding cost.



It is.


Nope. A vintage car, much like the Mar A Lago mansion, a vintage property would be insured differently than ordinary, mainstream cars and homes.

Premiums on large commercial properties are extremely high per thousand dollars of insurance and they go up proportionally higher per 1,000 when you get multimillion-dollar properties. You don't want to underinsure your property because you would only get the face value of the property on a total loss. The insurers also will not let you underinsure your property because then they lose out on the premium you would otherwise pay. They will let you overinsure your property because they only pay the replacement cost of the building anyway.

The property owner must be careful when he insures a building that he is insuring it for today's replacement cost as close as possible.

One thing Trump should do on appeal is to go in with a copy of his insurance policy and show them how much he insured it for. It would be a lot more than the 18 million that joker judge came up with. BUT............it will also be a lot less than the market value as well. You cannot get insurance for "market value".....only up to the replacement cost of the structure.

 

[neo publius]

No, it is illegal to make false statements about corporate assets on official financial documents. What do you think would happen if corporations were allowed to inflate corporate assets? Does the mortgage collapses and the fall of Enron ring any bells?

There is no finite price on Real-estate , it’s market dictated, therefore every price listed is false. BTW the mortgage collapse was due to lending to unqualified buyers defaulting on their loans. Trump didn’t default. Enron was using false earnings reports to artificially inflate the stock price, not even close to relevant in this case.

So let’s review, wrong, wrong and wrong. Hey you’re perfect! Perfectly wrong.

 

[trixare4kids]

Premiums on large commercial properties are extremely high per thousand dollars of insurance and they go up proportionally higher per 1,000 when you get multimillion-dollar properties. You don't want to underinsure your property because you would only get the face value of the property on a total loss. The insurers also will not let you underinsure your property because then they lose out on the premium you would otherwise pay. They will let you overinsure your property because they only pay the replacement cost of the building anyway.

The property owner must be careful when he insures a building that he is insuring it for today's replacement cost as close as possible.

Due to inflation, many people have become underinsured. A reputable insurer will up the replacement cost, but then, there also goes the premium. Still, not a great idea to be underinsured to save money on a policy.

Getting back to the fraud trial, there is no possible way DJT upped the value of his properties to help him with insurance costs. Insurance doesn't work that way. Makes me wonder if anyone knew their head from their ass in that courtroom.

 

[Paradoxical]

There is no finite price on Real-estate , it’s market dictated, therefore every price listed is false. BTW the mortgage collapse was due to lending to unqualified buyers defaulting on their loans. Trump didn’t default. Enron was using false earnings reports to artificially inflate the stock price, not even close to relevant in this case.

So let’s review, wrong, wrong and wrong. Hey you’re perfect! Perfectly wrong.

It is irritating to witness people not willing to let go of a lie. When it is the BANK that does its own underwriting, it doesn't MATTER what you say on a loan application. The banks and insurance companies are far more thorough than any jude of AG. If they are wrong, they lose money. If the judge or AG is wrong, they get promoted.

 

[Paradoxical]

Due to inflation, many people have become underinsured. A reputable insurer will up the replacement cost, but then, there also goes the premium. Still, not a great idea to be underinsured to save money on a policy.

Getting back to the fraud trial, there is no possible way DJT upped the value of his properties to help him with insurance costs. Insurance doesn't work that way. Makes me wonder if anyone knew their head from their ass in that courtroom.

These are people, including the judge and Leticia, who don't understand how capitalism works because they have been in government most of their lives. What does an ex-cab driver, or professional left-wing protester know about either commercial real estate or insurance? It is very rare that someone over-insures their commercial property. They have to watch expenses and insurance is one of those and a businessman knows that he will not be paid more than the cost to rebuild the property. If I owned a building and contractors and architects told me it would cost 150 million to replace it, I "might" get a policy for 160 million just to be safe. But, to get one for 200 million would cost so much more money it would be crazy. Plus, I would never get the 200 million anyway since the insurer is liable only for the replacement cost. Why is this so hard for a judge or Leticia to understand?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

“Fraud” has a loose meaning these days. Is it “fraud” to represent that a property is worth far in excess of its appraised value while only paying taxes on the lower appraised amount? If so, Stewart is just as guilty.

Did Stewart actively argue the property is worth the low amount to the government to get lower taxes, then actively state the property is worth multiple times that amount in order to obtain a loan using that property as collateral?

If so them yes he is guilty.

If however the government valued the property at a low rate, without Stewart's involvement, then Stewart sold that property at market value, then no fraud occurred just government incompetence.

Fraud generally involves taking action to promote it.

 

[trixare4kids]

These are people, including the judge and Leticia, who don't understand how capitalism works because they have been in government most of their lives. What does an ex-cab driver, or professional left-wing protester know about either commercial real estate or insurance?

Nothing.

It is very rare that someone over-insures their commercial property. They have to watch expenses and insurance is one of those and a businessman knows that he will not be paid more than the cost to rebuild the property.

Exactly. Besides the fact that, over insuring a property is a red flag for fraud. An insurance company would reject a prospective customer for overvaluing.

If I owned a building and contractors and architects told me it would cost 150 million to replace it, I "might" get a policy for 160 million just to be safe. But, to get one for 200 million would cost so much more money it would be crazy. Plus, I would never get the 200 million anyway since the insurer is liable only for the replacement cost. Why is this so hard for a judge or Leticia to understand?

An insurance company goes by the prevailing rebuilding cost in the area for which the home is located and the square footage of the property, and extra features like out buildings, swimming pools, etc.

Nobody inflates their property value to benefit their insurance costs.

 

[SCrider]

In the case of a leftist doing what Trump has been accused of you call it Capitalism. That's a classic example of what's wrong with leftists -- rules for thee, but not for us.

Why lie?
Stewart sold a house for more than it was "worth" on paper. The buyer made a bad choice but was not conned into it.
Trump lied to get an advantage for loans and tax purposes.
These are not comparable at all.

 

[LouC]

In the case of a leftist doing what Trump has been accused of you call it Capitalism. That's a classic example of what's wrong with leftists -- rules for thee, but not for us.

But nothing I have seen yet shows that Jon did what Trump was found guilty of doing.

 

[SCrider]

But nothing I have seen yet shows that Jon did what Trump was found guilty of doing.

That would be because he did not.
These cult members are clinging to any stupid thing they can to excuse Trump's crimes.

 

[uptower]

 

[LouC]

That would be because he did not.
These cult members are clinging to any stupid thing they can to excuse Trump's crimes.

I heard, can't say where, or from whom, but I heard Hunter Biden was in on this Stewart property sale and that 10% went to the BIG GUY, but don't quote me!

 

[Callen]

In the case of a leftist doing what Trump has been accused of you call it Capitalism. That's a classic example of what's wrong with leftists -- rules for thee, but not for us.

Name one leftist that did what Trump did but first make sure you have it straight in terms of what he did.

He falsely inflated his corporations net worth on official financial documents

 

[Paradoxical]

Nothing.

Exactly. Besides the fact that, over insuring a property is a red flag for fraud. An insurance company would reject a prospective customer for overvaluing.

An insurance company goes by the prevailing rebuilding cost in the area for which the home is located and the square footage of the property, and extra features like out buildings, swimming pools, etc.

Nobody inflates their property value to benefit their insurance costs.

You and I are on the same page and exactly right. On a total loss, 99% of all business owners are underinsured. They (the commercial building owner) take that risk and as long as the underinsurance isn't too much (according to the insurer's estimated replacement cost) the insurer will write the policy. Most claims are not a total loss anyway, so in many cases, being a little underinsured is not a problem.

You will almost never find a homeowner or business owner that is overinsured. I just can't believe that Leticia and the judge think that his overvaluing property for insurance reasons would help Trump. It shows complete naivety and ignorance, typical of those who are government hacks and former political activist protesters.

They just don't realize the insurers have professional adjusters, contractors and accountants they hire to review claims, as does any bank loaning money. You don't just to be like The Libs of DP and make claims and have the professionals say like country bumkins."Oh. Ok. Mister Twump. U sai dat yer propetee be wurth 300 mileun? OK, den. here's yer mony."

 

[Paradoxical]

Name one leftist that did what Trump did but first make sure you have it straight in terms of what he did.

He falsely inflated his corporations net worth on official financial documents

He knew the bank would never think to check, eh?

 

[Callen]

There is no finite price on Real-estate , it’s market dictated, therefore every price listed is false. BTW the mortgage collapse was due to lending to unqualified buyers defaulting on their loans. Trump didn’t default. Enron was using false earnings reports to artificially inflate the stock price, not even close to relevant in this case.

So let’s review, wrong, wrong and wrong. Hey you’re perfect! Perfectly wrong.

You are the one who is wrong. Trump deliberately falsified his net worth on official financial records in order to secure more favorable interest rates. He did the same as Enron only one was to increase the bottom line through stock prices and the other did it to increase the bottom line through fraudulently obtained low interest rates. Default is not part of the statute.

 

[trixare4kids]

You and I are on the same page and exactly right. On a total loss, 99% of all business owners are underinsured. They (the commercial building owner) take that risk and as long as the underinsurance isn't too much (according to the insurer's estimated replacement cost) the insurer will write the policy. Most claims are not a total loss anyway, so in many cases, being a little underinsured is not a problem.

You will almost never find a homeowner or business owner that is overinsured. I just can't believe that Leticia and the judge think that his overvaluing property for insurance reasons would help Trump. It shows complete naivety and ignorance, typical of those who are government hacks and former political activist protesters.

They just don't realize the insurers have professional adjusters, contractors and accountants they hire to review claims, as does any bank loaning money. You don't just to be like The Libs of DP and make claims and have the professionals say like country bumkins."Oh. Ok. Mister Twump. U sai dat yer propetee be wurth 300 mileun? OK, den. here's yey money."

It's obvious the leftwing operatives were tossing shit at the wall just to pad their case against a prospective president they wanted to keep from office. Trump will win the appeal. Nobody and no entity were defrauded. The banks said they did not rely on Trump's claims. They conducted their own audits.