It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after. [W: 15]

[Zyphlin]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Students are there to learn. If people create problems on campus, they shouldn't be expected to have wholly unfettered access to speech.

Absolutely!

But if they've caused no problems on campus and have given no clear indication that they are going to cause a problem, their expressions of their rights shouldn't be limited to a sliver of space if the rest of the campus is open to the public.

Now, if and when they become a disturbance of the peace or worse as you were describing above, THEN you take action against them. But you don't assume that any person that's not a student or faculty that wants to engage in speech on campus is inherently going to cause a disruption so they must be quarantined off to a specific isolated area.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Yeah, umm, I was talking about the fact free speech zones were regularly used during the last Republican presidency. The Republican Party, as you might know, hardly bills themselves as leftwing.

In other words, are we just pretending the concept of free speech zones only exist within one political ideology, when facts show us differently?

Yeah, the concept of a "free speech zone" is hardly singularly a notion of the left. It basically comes down to what kind of speech, and what it's topic, at any given time and whether that is something that those in power in a particular place would rather have isolated off.

For example, because there was significant Anti-War protests going on during the time of the 2004 Presidential Election, and the Republicans very much did not like those things, it wasn't surprising that the Republican National Convention utilized "free speech zones" to provide designated, segmented off spots where protesting was allowed and thus squashed protests happening elsewhere. The Democrats had similar "free speech zones" that year for their convention.

It's a notion both sides have actively embraced in times post 2000. Though I'd say, on campuses, it likely would be accurate to suggest they've begun more from a liberal standpoint, but simply because in general leadership in academia tends to be more left leaning. But that doesn't mean the concept as a whole is singular or significantly more embraced by the left than the right.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

They absolutely are, as indicated by your own quote. They're limiting external people to "free speech zones" because they MIGHT interrupt class or study. Rather than allowing them their ability to speak freely anywhere they'd like on public property, they're instead making a broad assumption that they are more likely than not going to cause a disruption and thus limiting them to a specific area where that disruption is most limited. That is prejudging.

If a preacher, a protester, or anyone else causes a distraction than ABSOLUTELY the school should take action. They should take action if/when they create a distraction. What they shouldn't be doing is preemptively attempting to stop disruption by limiting everyone external to the school's free speech rights, REGARDLESS of whether or not that individual would've actually caused a disruption.

And people think they should be able to go anywhere open to the public on a public university, that is in part funded by the government, specifically because of those two things...that it's government supported property that is open to the public.

What is ironic is how this is an interesting dichotomy to the whole "gay wedding cake" thing.

People claimed that is a business is "open to the public" then they are required, absolutely required, to provide their service to anyone that wants it because those people have rights. Well if a campus's grounds are "open to the public" then it would stand to reason they are required, absolutely required, to allow people to engage in their constitutionally protected rights on those grounds up until such point that doing so infringes upon someone elses rights.

Enforcing a consistent policy such as "no use of the word '****'" would NOT be an example of prejudgement. It would simply be the enforcement of a rule.

They are not exempting white protestors or liberal demonstrators, so there is no discrimination from which prejudice can be drawn, unless you refer to the aspect of the policy that distinguishes those who are present in an official capacity (like students and faculty) and those who are not.

A public prison is also public property. I cannot demand to be let into any arbitrary prisoners cell at any time to preach.

The white house is also public property. I cannot demand to be let into any arbitrary room of the white house at any time to preach. Do you think it's unfair to vet those who enter the white house in any way ?

 

[blaxshep]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Students are there to learn. If people create problems on campus, they shouldn't be expected to have wholly unfettered access to speech.

Ok you're against the 1st and the 2nd so far, should we go down the list, is there any right you feel the people should have?

 

[Absentglare]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Ok you're against the 1st and the 2nd so far, should we go down the list, is there any right you feel the people should have?

Your claim is a lie. I acknowledge the right to free speech, i simply deny that we are compelled to arbitrarily reallocate any publicly owned area for said speech.

 

[blaxshep]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Your claim is a lie. I acknowledge the right to free speech, i simply deny that we are compelled to arbitrarily reallocate any publicly owned area for said speech.

Ok, I might have read more into what you posted then you really posted.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Yeah, umm, I was talking about the fact free speech zones were regularly used during the last Republican presidency. The Republican Party, as you might know, hardly bills themselves as leftwing.

In other words, are we just pretending the concept of free speech zones only exist within one political ideology, when facts show us differently?

like it or not, its been the left that is most hostile to free speech

 

[Absentglare]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Ok, I might have read more into what you posted then you really posted.

I appreciate that, thank you.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

I figured he was basically harmless, but he became a bit of an obnoxious obstacle.

I think people do have the right to free speech: but the state is not obligated to provide them an all-expense-paid platform for said speech anywhere on any college campus at any time.

WTF are you babbling about? You start off presenting hysterical reactions to irrelevancy of free speech mislabelling it to suit your claim and when rebutted make an absolute asinine totally irrelevant statement.

Does the state have any right or authority to prevent free speech? A simple yes or no would suffice?

Is a state allocated speech free zone not denial of this right?

Then in a similar right, does the state have the right to prevent a citizen from not possessing or bearing arms? It would be interesting to see your response, though I'll not be holding my breath.

Is a state allocated gun free zone not denial of this right?

 

[American]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

It's pretty sad that they restrict free speech to zones and even sadder that they want to ban those zones altogether. I don't think publicly funded institutions should be allowed to deviate from the Constitution.

Where are the protests, sit-ins, hunger strikes on campus?

 

[Crimefree]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Where are the protests, sit-ins, hunger strikes on campus?

That is always the question of relevance because nowhere is silence ever accepted as rejection or disagreement.

 

[NonoBadDog]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Where are the protests, sit-ins, hunger strikes on campus?

They are in their "safe zones" hiding from all the dangerous guns that might be roaming around.

 

[MickeyW]

It's pretty sad that they restrict free speech to zones and even sadder that they want to ban those zones altogether. I don't think publicly funded institutions should be allowed to deviate from the Constitution.

Me either.

The liberal / progressive indoctrination in education marches on. Make no mistake, this is tyranny.

Yes, it truly is....

Well said, few indeed see this as the grab for power by government that it is. They forget to count the restrictive laws and constitutional incursion introduced on the back of terrorism and the false flag event of 9/11.

It is not a passing phase and government will not correct itself when the only currency of politics is POWER.

A la the Clintons and obama....well, most Democrats

All the more reason that the political elite need to be shaken up to their core, displaced from government and power.

Damn straight.

 

[Slyfox696]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

like it or not, its been the left that is most hostile to free speech

:lol::lol::lol:

"I don't care what the facts say, I'm just going to throw my hatred around anyways!"

I'm pretty sure it wasn't "the left" who set up free speech zones during Bush's presidency. I'm pretty certain it wasn't "the left" who told you you were un-American if you said something bad about the Bush Administration "in a time of war". I'm pretty positive it wasn't "the left" who said "America, love it or leave it" when someone disagreed with the Iraq war. And, on a lesser note, I know it wasn't "the left" who kicked The Dixie Chicks out of country music.

I'm not saying "the left" doesn't have their laundry list of issues on this topic. I'm not "the left" nor am I "the right". I'm just someone who cares about facts, and your position does not align at all with facts.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

:lol::lol::lol:

"I don't care what the facts say, I'm just going to throw my hatred around anyways!"

I'm pretty sure it wasn't "the left" who set up free speech zones during Bush's presidency. I'm pretty certain it wasn't "the left" who told you you were un-American if you said something bad about the Bush Administration "in a time of war". I'm pretty positive it wasn't "the left" who said "America, love it or leave it" when someone disagreed with the Iraq war. And, on a lesser note, I know it wasn't "the left" who kicked The Dixie Chicks out of country music.

I'm not saying "the left" doesn't have their laundry list of issues on this topic. I'm not "the left" nor am I "the right". I'm just someone who cares about facts, and your position does not align at all with facts.

You really don't understand the concept of free speech do you?

 

[Absentglare]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

WTF are you babbling about? You start off presenting hysterical...

Ironic.

...reactions to irrelevancy of free speech mislabelling it to suit your claim and when rebutted make an absolute asinine totally irrelevant statement.

That's a lie.

Does the state have any right or authority to prevent free speech? A simple yes or no would suffice?

You're confused. The state doesn't prevent speech. What it does is enforce guidelines on some public property.

Is a state allocated speech free zone not denial of this right?

It isn't, you don't seem to have the faintest clue what "free speech" means if you think it gives you the right to trespass while causing a disturbance.

Then in a similar right, does the state have the right to prevent a citizen from not possessing or bearing arms? It would be interesting to see your response, though I'll not be holding my breath.

Is a state allocated gun free zone not denial of this right?

This isn't about guns. Whatever neurotic obsession you might entertain is irrelevant.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

You really don't understand the concept of free speech do you?

That's a logical fallacy and it doesn't serve as a substitute for a valid argument. If you can't explain how his response indicates a lack of understanding, you have no case.

 

[Slyfox696]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

You really don't understand the concept of free speech do you?

Good attempt at a red herring, but it was too transparent. We're not talking about whether I understand the concept, which I obviously do, we're talking about the absurdity of accusing only one side of trying to infringe upon it.

In other words, I'm calling out your blatantly partisan position and your response is to try and change the subject with a ridiculous comment. The fact is you trying to pretend only "the left" has done such thing is asinine, given the copious amounts of evidence we have of "the right" doing it as well.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Good attempt at a red herring, but it was too transparent. We're not talking about whether I understand the concept, which I obviously do, we're talking about the absurdity of accusing only one side of trying to infringe upon it.

In other words, I'm calling out your blatantly partisan position and your response is to try and change the subject with a ridiculous comment. The fact is you trying to pretend only "the left" has done such thing is asinine, given the copious amounts of evidence we have of "the right" doing it as well.

lets see if I understand your claim. You claim you aren't blatantly partisan?

when have right wing students prevented lefties from speaking on college campuses? trashed liberal papers?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

That's a logical fallacy and it doesn't serve as a substitute for a valid argument. If you can't explain how his response indicates a lack of understanding, you have no case.

I don't think he needs you to speak for him

While he missed the point, you certainly didn't seem to understand it either

 

[Absentglare]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

I don't think he needs you to speak for him

I don't think so either.

While he missed the point, you certainly didn't seem to understand it either

I entirely understood your post, apparently you didn't understand his. He gave you a well articulated thought and you reciprocated with a dishonest deflection. Now, you are attempting to scold me for pointing that out.

 

[Opopanax]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

lets see if I understand your claim. You claim you aren't blatantly partisan?

when have right wing students prevented lefties from speaking on college campuses? trashed liberal papers?

I guess you're not familiar with the various battles for equal rights including desegregation, voting, and being able to sit at the same counter at a restaurant. It is the conservative faction of America that has consistently and persistently attempted to deny the most fundamental rights to others that they have always possessed.

Nowadays it's voter ID laws and gerrymandering that conservatives use to silence others. A small group of ignorant melodramatic youth on a college campus can't hold a candle to the blinding bigotry of the right and the power it wields and continues to use to silence its political opponents.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

I guess you're not familiar with the various battles for equal rights including desegregation, voting, and being able to sit at the same counter at a restaurant. It is the conservative faction of America that has consistently and persistently attempted to deny the most fundamental rights to others that they have always possessed.

Nowadays it's voter ID laws and gerrymandering that conservatives use to silence others. A small group of ignorant melodramatic youth on a college campus can't hold a candle to the blinding bigotry of the right and the power it wields and continues to use to silence its political opponents.

you'd be wrong-again. so its your view that the left is without a mouthpiece in say the national press? LOL

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

I don't think so either.



I entirely understood your post, apparently you didn't understand his. He gave you a well articulated thought and you reciprocated with a dishonest deflection. Now, you are attempting to scold me for pointing that out.

you obviously don't believe what you say, because if you did, you wouldn't have felt a need to speak for him

 

[Rico Suave]

Re: It's not just your gun the liberals are coming after.

Speaking for myself I am only after your guns.