How many shootings in the U.S. per year is too many?

[American]

Now where did he go? :doh:lol:

Sorry, didn't realize you posted questions.

 

[Goobieman]

Lets see-I was not arrested nor handcuffed-the fact that I called the police and waited at the scene might have had something to do with it. I was given miranda warnings though before the DA interviewed me-he ruled it was a righteous shooting. One of the muggers filed private charges against me which is permitted in the state. At preliminary hearing I was cleared. They both were bound over to the GJ. I testified at the GJ against the perpetrators. They were both indicted. The DA just to CYA himself also allowed the GJ to decide on my actions. A complete No Bill. In fact one of the GJ asked me why I didn't shoot both of them a bunch of times and most of the GJ's said that would have been proper.

Wait... you shot soneone in self-defense and didnt go to trial?

One of two things is true:
-You're lying;
-Sab is wrong

I know what my money is on.

 

[Saboteur]

PLEASE NO ONE ELSE ANSWER THIS I WANT TO HEAR SABS HERE

:roll:

1. what rights does the constitution grant?

Amendment 1 - Freedom of religion, Speech, press and right of the people to peacably assemble to petition the government for a redress of greivances.

Amendment 2 - Right of the people to keep and bear arms in organized militia.

Amendment 6 - Right to speedy and public trial by jury, right to know charges, right to defense councel and witnesses.

Amendment - 7 Civil law suits same rights as criminal.

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States not included or prohibited in the consitution are reserved by the states with regard to the people of the state.

2. Who does the Constitution restrict?

Aside from the various powers of federal government and individual states;

Amendment 3 - No soldier to be sheltered against owner's will. - soldiers

Amendment 4 - No unreasonable search and or seizure of person, property, effects, etc. - law enforcment

Amendment 5 - The courts cannot prosecute capital or infamous crime without presentment or indictment unless military or militia. Court cannot prosecute for same crime twice. Court cannot compell a witness to testify against themselves without due process. - courts

Amendment 8 - The court cannot impose excessive bail, fines or administer cruel or unusual punishment. - courts

Amendment 9 - The rights of the constitution shall not be construed to deny or disparage the rights of the people - Government

I could go on about how the constitution was changed to extend these rights to minorities and women but I don't think you care about that.

So now what? You going to slap me for the what I put for the second amendment?

Well here's a link;

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Doesn't say anything about the individual.

Then what? You going to point out Amendment 9? Well we all know that hasn't been held up.

 

[Saboteur]

Lets see-I was not arrested nor handcuffed-the fact that I called the police and waited at the scene might have had something to do with it. I was given miranda warnings though before the DA interviewed me-he ruled it was a righteous shooting. One of the muggers filed private charges against me which is permitted in the state. At preliminary hearing I was cleared. They both were bound over to the GJ. I testified at the GJ against the perpetrators. They were both indicted. The DA just to CYA himself also allowed the GJ to decide on my actions. A complete No Bill. In fact one of the GJ asked me why I didn't shoot both of them a bunch of times and most of the GJ's said that would have been proper.

You still had to explain? Not surprised. So would you call it an investigation of sorts?

And then the authorities encouraged shooting them even more? Where do you live?

 

[Saboteur]

Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? It states about rights what has always been and always will be. The US Constitution was framed in order to protect those rights from being subdued by the government. Though necessary, the Founders never trusted government to stay clean and uncorrupted by men. The Bill of Rights was added to comply with state constitutional conventions who would only ratify the Constitution with those amendments included.

Wasn't it you who said I believed that the founding fathers were all rich and corrupt or something?

 

[Goobieman]

Amendment 1 - Freedom of religion, Speech, press and right of the people to peacably assemble to petition the government for a redress of greivances.

Amendment 2 - Right of the people to keep and bear arms in organized militia.

Amendment 6 - Right to speedy and public trial by jury, right to know charges, right to defense councel and witnesses.

Amendment - 7 Civil law suits same rights as criminal.

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States not included or prohibited in the consitution are reserved by the states with regard to the people of the state.

Pssst...
Read the text of the amendments
The government doesnt -grant- any of these rights.

 

[Saboteur]

Makes sense to me. Why do you hate our freedoms Saboteur?

Well Kernel, if you really believe I do hate freedom then explaining how I don't won't do any good.

 

[Saboteur]

Pssst...
Read the text of the amendments
The government doesnt -grant- any of these rights.

Psst read Rev hellhound's questions again. He was asking what the constitution granted, not the gov.

 

[Goobieman]

Psst read Rev hellhound's questions again. He was asking what the constitution granted, not the gov.

Same comment applies... the Constitution doesnt -grant- any of those rgihts.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Amendment 1 - Freedom of religion, Speech, press and right of the people to peacably assemble to petition the government for a redress of greivances.

Amendment 2 - Right of the people to keep and bear arms in organized militia.

Amendment 6 - Right to speedy and public trial by jury, right to know charges, right to defense councel and witnesses.

Amendment - 7 Civil law suits same rights as criminal.

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States not included or prohibited in the consitution are reserved by the states with regard to the people of the state.



Aside from the various powers of federal government and individual states;

Amendment 3 - No soldier to be sheltered against owner's will. - soldiers

Amendment 4 - No unreasonable search and or seizure of person, property, effects, etc. - law enforcment

Amendment 5 - The courts cannot prosecute capital or infamous crime without presentment or indictment unless military or militia. Court cannot prosecute for same crime twice. Court cannot compell a witness to testify against themselves without due process. - courts

Amendment 8 - The court cannot impose excessive bail, fines or administer cruel or unusual punishment. - courts

Amendment 9 - The rights of the constitution shall not be construed to deny or disparage the rights of the people - Government

I could go on about how the constitution was changed to extend these rights to minorities and women but I don't think you care about that.

So now what? You going to slap me for the what I put for the second amendment?

Well here's a link;

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Doesn't say anything about the individual.

Then what? You going to point out Amendment 9? Well we all know that hasn't been held up.

The constitution grants no rights, it recognizes or enumerates certain rights, that does not mean anything not there is restricted. the 10th states this. Rights are inherant in all man. "inalienable"


Part a: Grade F fail.



Part b: the Constitution restricts government not people.


As to your absurd "organized militia" claim. How can you say that with a straight face...


Please give me quotes of the founding fathers that supports that silly notion.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Psst read Rev hellhound's questions again. He was asking what the constitution granted, not the gov.

Your ignorance of the constitution is impressive.

 

[Kernel Sanders]

So now what? You going to slap me for the what I put for the second amendment?

Well here's a link;

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Doesn't say anything about the individual.

Then what? You going to point out Amendment 9? Well we all know that hasn't been held up.

SCOTUS disagrees. The Second Amendment protects the individual right to bear arms. Get over it

 

[Goobieman]

Amendment 2 - Right of the people to keep and bear arms in organized militia.

I'm sorry... that's not in my copy of the Constituon.
Can you provide a link?

 

[earthworm]

How many car accidents per year is too many?

Right, you are immediately jumping ship before it sails.
The point is, there are far too many gun deaths.
Something MUST be done.
One of my ideas is to hang every gang member, even if only one in that unit commits a murder....
These animals we do not need in our country...
For the squeamish, we can establish a penal colony on the Arctic Circle, the polar bears are hungry....
That far, far more regulation is necessary to control gun ownership is obvious to anyone with at least a double digit IQ.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Right, you are immediately jumping ship before it sails.
The point is, there are far too many gun deaths.
Something MUST be done.
One of my ideas is to hang every gang member, even if only one in that unit commits a murder....
These animals we do not need in our country...
For the squeamish, we can establish a penal colony on the Arctic Circle, the polar bears are hungry....
That far, far more regulation is necessary to control gun ownership is obvious to anyone with at least a double digit IQ.

they are already shooting each other. so lets let them have at it.

 

[rivrrat]

Right, you are immediately jumping ship before it sails.
The point is, there are far too many gun deaths.
Something MUST be done.
One of my ideas is to hang every gang member, even if only one in that unit commits a murder....
These animals we do not need in our country...
For the squeamish, we can establish a penal colony on the Arctic Circle, the polar bears are hungry....
That far, far more regulation is necessary to control gun ownership is obvious to anyone with at least a double digit IQ.

I rather think that public humiliation and execution is the way to go. (stockades, etc)

 

[earthworm]

Why do so many place their beliefs and faith in papers and books written so long ago ?? I am talking about the koran, the Bible, and the Constitution...
Does anyone think for themselves anymore..??

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

wow..... that's a new one. :roll:

 

[Goobieman]

Why do so many place their beliefs and faith in papers and books written so long ago ?? I am talking about the koran, the Bible, and the Constitution...
Does anyone think for themselves anymore..??

Yes... lets just throw the Constitution out, and let the government do anything a majority of people think it should be allowed to do.

 

[jamesrage]

Well? How many?

Statistics, Facts and Quotes

FACT:In 2005 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,694 gun deaths in the U.S:


12,352 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths),
17,002 suicides (55% of all U.S gun deaths),
789 unintentional shootings, 330 from legal intervention and 221 from undetermined intent (5% of all U.S gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2008.

I am sure you can find the same statistics for other things like cars,knives and anything else that can be used as a lethal weapon.It still does not justify stripping rights from the rest of the people in this country who are law abiding.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

As far as how many shootings in the U.S. are too many goes, I guess it all depends on whether its Good Guys or Bad Guys getting shot.

 

[Zyphlin]

Amendment 2 - Right of the people to keep and bear arms in organized militia.

Doesn't say anything about the individual.

PSSSST, I hate to tell you this but...you're wrong. See, there's this thing called the Supreme Court, and they ruled it was an individual right based on the full wording of the amendment. So, bitch and whine and complain all you want, but its 100% fact that at this time you are completely and utterly wrong about your interpritation.

 

[Saboteur]

The constitution grants no rights, it recognizes or enumerates certain rights, that does not mean anything not there is restricted. the 10th states this. Rights are inherant in all man. "inalienable"

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Preamble

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


The first ten Amendments collectively are commonly known as the Bill of Rights.

Constitutional Topic: The Bill of Rights - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

American history is replete with bills of rights, from the most famous included in our Constitution

Part a: Grade F fail.

Trick question: Grade F-, try again. I dare ya :2razz:

Part b: the Constitution restricts government not people.

That's what I said.

As to your absurd "organized militia" claim. How can you say that with a straight face...

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This does not say the 'right of the individual to keep and bear arms'

And if you don't believe that link here's the government one;

Bill of Rights Transcript

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Still doesn't say 'the right of the individual to keep and bear arms'.

Please give me quotes of the founding fathers that supports that silly notion.

Can't, but here's one that supports your position.

Samuel Adams

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions."

Of course this was before the 2nd amendment was ratified;

Source: Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 1788 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)


Here is another quote from a Framer;

"Under every government the dernier [Fr. last, or final]
resort of the people, is an appeal to the sword; whether to defend
themselves against the open attacks of a foreign enemy, or to check
the insidious encroachments of domestic foes. Whenever a people...
entrust the defence of their country to a regular, standing army,
composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will remain
under the direction of the most wealthy citizens."

This was also before the 2nd Amendment was ratified

Source: Independent Gazetteer, January 29, 1791

To me it appears that there was some debate on the question of citizens or militia bearing arms. Perhaps these are the reason why we argue today.

Though I would say that the reference to a sword did not mean guns. I also now have to agree with you the intent of the 2nd Amendment. Still that does not mean that I think that just anyone should be able to walk around with an AK47.

 

[rivrrat]

This does not say the 'right of the individual to keep and bear arms'

Does it state the 'right of the individual to free speech'? Or 'right of the individual to freedom of religion'? Or 'right of the individual to peaceful assembly'? Does it explicity say the 'right of the individual' anywhere?

 

[MSgt]

Again, the exact obtuseness I was speaking of. A gun was built with being as lethal as possible for the category in which it was intended to fill.
It was meant to kill or cause massive injury so as to in turn become protective to someone that wields it, able to hunt for food or god forbid the fun of killing for sport:roll: Or in the criminal world a sign of power.

I don't see your point. The atom was split for one reason - to slaughter a massive amount of people. Does this mean that nuclear power must be forbidden? Obtuseness is breaking things down to black and white definition. A gun is a gun and it has many uses. It's the idiot behind the gun that decides.