Hillary makes up gun death count...

[MickeyW]

CLINTON: "Since we last debated in Las Vegas, nearly 3,000 people have been killed by guns. Two hundred children have been killed. This is an emergency." She said that in the same period there have been 21 mass shootings, "including one last weekend in Des Moines where three were murdered."

THE FACTS: The claim appears to be unsupported on all counts.


The Gun Violence Archive has recorded 11,485 gun deaths in the U.S. so far this year, an average of just under 1,000 per month, making Clinton's figure appear to be highly exaggerated. The archive had more detailed data for children and teenagers, showing 70 from those age groups killed by firearms since the Democratic candidates debated Oct. 13 - not 200 as she claimed.

News from The Associated Press

 

[celticwar17]

CLINTON: "Since we last debated in Las Vegas, nearly 3,000 people have been killed by guns. Two hundred children have been killed. This is an emergency." She said that in the same period there have been 21 mass shootings, "including one last weekend in Des Moines where three were murdered."

THE FACTS: The claim appears to be unsupported on all counts.


The Gun Violence Archive has recorded 11,485 gun deaths in the U.S. so far this year, an average of just under 1,000 per month, making Clinton's figure appear to be highly exaggerated. The archive had more detailed data for children and teenagers, showing 70 from those age groups killed by firearms since the Democratic candidates debated Oct. 13 - not 200 as she claimed.

News from The Associated Press

shhhhhhhhh don't say anything when Hillary lies....:shock: it could elect a Republican and make a lot of people Hypocrites...

 

[TurtleDude]

CLINTON: "Since we last debated in Las Vegas, nearly 3,000 people have been killed by guns. Two hundred children have been killed. This is an emergency." She said that in the same period there have been 21 mass shootings, "including one last weekend in Des Moines where three were murdered."

THE FACTS: The claim appears to be unsupported on all counts.


The Gun Violence Archive has recorded 11,485 gun deaths in the U.S. so far this year, an average of just under 1,000 per month, making Clinton's figure appear to be highly exaggerated. The archive had more detailed data for children and teenagers, showing 70 from those age groups killed by firearms since the Democratic candidates debated Oct. 13 - not 200 as she claimed.

News from The Associated Press

anyone who is a gun owner and takes their right to KBA seriously cannot support that twit's candidacy.

 

[ttwtt78640]

We know that Hillary lies, even she knows that she was lying (just like with that sniper fire whopper), but that is OK because she is supposed to be the next historic US president. If you object to her minor faults then you are simply a misogynist, bigot and genrally creepy republicant lover. You better just accept her lying and learn to accept that cackling laugh of hers, used whenever she is asked a question that she would rather just not answer.

 

[Hari Seldon]

CLINTON: "Since we last debated in Las Vegas, nearly 3,000 people have been killed by guns. Two hundred children have been killed. This is an emergency." She said that in the same period there have been 21 mass shootings, "including one last weekend in Des Moines where three were murdered."

THE FACTS: The claim appears to be unsupported on all counts.


The Gun Violence Archive has recorded 11,485 gun deaths in the U.S. so far this year, an average of just under 1,000 per month, making Clinton's figure appear to be highly exaggerated. The archive had more detailed data for children and teenagers, showing 70 from those age groups killed by firearms since the Democratic candidates debated Oct. 13 - not 200 as she claimed.

News from The Associated Press

11,485 / 10.5 = 1093 which I believe is a bit more than 1000 per month. Just sayin.

 

[MickeyW]

We know that Hillary lies, even she knows that she was lying (just like with that sniper fire whopper), but that is OK because she is supposed to be the next historic US president. If you object to her minor faults then you are simply a misogynist, bigot and genrally creepy republicant lover. You better just accept her lying and learn to accept that cackling laugh of hers, used whenever she is asked a question that she would rather just not answer.

Got it!

11,485 / 10.5 = 1093 which I believe is a bit more than 1000 per month. Just sayin.

So she exaggerated X 2.9, instead of X 3.0?

 

[Moderate Right]

The problem is Hillary has already been coronated and they have no one else so they have no choice but to support her, warts and all. Take Hillary out of the picture and the Republicans have an easy win. Hillary is their best shot at the presidency at 50/50 and they know it.

 

[Cardinal]

CLINTON: "Since we last debated in Las Vegas, nearly 3,000 people have been killed by guns. Two hundred children have been killed. This is an emergency." She said that in the same period there have been 21 mass shootings, "including one last weekend in Des Moines where three were murdered."

THE FACTS: The claim appears to be unsupported on all counts.


The Gun Violence Archive has recorded 11,485 gun deaths in the U.S. so far this year, an average of just under 1,000 per month, making Clinton's figure appear to be highly exaggerated. The archive had more detailed data for children and teenagers, showing 70 from those age groups killed by firearms since the Democratic candidates debated Oct. 13 - not 200 as she claimed.

News from The Associated Press

1000 gun deaths per month is kind of a lot. I mean, we all just completely lost our **** because roughly 150 people were killed in France (and rightfully so). Why is 6.6 times that number per month no biggie?

 

[BretJ]

1000 gun deaths per month is kind of a lot. I mean, we all just completely lost our **** because roughly 150 people were killed in France (and rightfully so). Why is 6.6 times that number per month no biggie?

Because the majority of those deaths were thugs shooting thugs. The issue is that she would prefer to hold 120 million or so otherwise lawful legal gun owners accountable for the actions of a relative handful of criminals. Kind of like Trump wanting to deport millions of Hispanics based on the actions of a few thugs.

 

[Kal'Stang]

CLINTON: "Since we last debated in Las Vegas, nearly 3,000 people have been killed by guns. Two hundred children have been killed. This is an emergency." She said that in the same period there have been 21 mass shootings, "including one last weekend in Des Moines where three were murdered."

THE FACTS: The claim appears to be unsupported on all counts.


The Gun Violence Archive has recorded 11,485 gun deaths in the U.S. so far this year, an average of just under 1,000 per month, making Clinton's figure appear to be highly exaggerated. The archive had more detailed data for children and teenagers, showing 70 from those age groups killed by firearms since the Democratic candidates debated Oct. 13 - not 200 as she claimed.

News from The Associated Press

Looking through the website for The Gun Violence Archive and I didn't see a single statistic on suicide. Wonder what category that got shoved into.

 

[Cardinal]

Because the majority of those deaths were thugs shooting thugs. The issue is that she would prefer to hold 120 million or so otherwise lawful legal gun owners accountable for the actions of a relative handful of criminals. Kind of like Trump wanting to deport millions of Hispanics based on the actions of a few thugs.

How do you know the majority is "thugs shooting thugs?" Genuinely curious.

 

[QuadpolarNutjob]

Clinton neglects to mention that more than half of the 'gun deaths' are committed by 'guns' wielded by a certain 13% of the population. mostly in the ghettos where they segregate themselves despite being 'freed' 150 years ago, while living off of other peoples tax dollars and murdering each-other while begging for more handouts.

 

[tech30528]

Because the majority of those deaths were thugs shooting thugs. The issue is that she would prefer to hold 120 million or so otherwise lawful legal gun owners accountable for the actions of a relative handful of criminals. Kind of like Trump wanting to deport millions of Hispanics based on the actions of a few thugs.

Yes, but suggest taking guns away from young black men (who commit 20 times the shootings of any other demographic and you are a racist.

 

[Cardinal]

Well, this thread went to full-on white pillowcase territory pretty fast.

 

[BretJ]

How do you know the majority is "thugs shooting thugs?" Genuinely curious.

You have a point. If the stats are similar to our yearly stats, two thirds could be suicide and the majority of what is left thug on thug.

 

[Cardinal]

You have a point. If the stats are similar to our yearly stats, two thirds could be suicide and the majority of what is left thug on thug.

Do you have these stats? It's the thugs-vs.-thugs stat I'm particularly interested in.

 

[Eric7216]

Looking through the website for The Gun Violence Archive and I didn't see a single statistic on suicide. Wonder what category that got shoved into.

The CDC seems to track suicides separately. In 2013, there were 11,203 firearm homicides not including 21,175 firearm caused suicides.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

When people talk about 35,000 or so firearm deaths, they are probably comingling firearm homicides and suicides. Typically 55-70% of firearm deaths are suicides. Firearms seem to make up c. half as all suicides and 70% of homicides.

 

[NonoBadDog]

Do you have these stats? It's the thugs-vs.-thugs stat I'm particularly interested in.

I see what you are doing here. I am gonna heat me up a roll and just watch. This should be interesting. I think I know where it is going to go.

 

[Cardinal]

I see what you are doing here. I am gonna heat me up a roll and just watch. This should be interesting. I think I know where it is going to go.

I don't have any especially insidious traps set up here, if that's what you're saying. In fact, traps really aren't my thing in general. You have to be especially clever to set a trap, and in all frankness I'm just not that shrewd.

 

[NonoBadDog]

I don't have any especially insidious traps set up here, if that's what you're saying. In fact, traps really aren't my thing in general. You have to be especially clever to set a trap, and in all frankness I'm just not that shrewd.

Damnit, you ruined it for me then. Your point is a good one. Thug vs. thug violence isn't proveable. I just made that word up. It is an interesting theory but not quantifiable.

 

[Cardinal]

Damnit, you ruined it for me then. Your point is a good one. Thug vs. thug violence isn't proveable. I just made that word up. It is an interesting theory but not quantifiable.

Well yes, that was actually my point. I would in any case be surprised if any studies are actually out there pinpointing thug-on-thug violence. We do in fact have more factual information determining which of those gun deaths are suicides, which is why I suspect BretJ tried shifting the discussion to that.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The CDC seems to track suicides separately. In 2013, there were 11,203 firearm homicides not including 21,175 firearm caused suicides.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

When people talk about 35,000 or so firearm deaths, they are probably comingling firearm homicides and suicides. Typically 55-70% of firearm deaths are suicides. Firearms seem to make up c. half as all suicides and 70% of homicides.

So Hillary's statement that "3000 people have been killed bu guns since the last debate" quite accurate. Thanks for the stats.

 

[TurtleDude]

How do you know the majority is "thugs shooting thugs?" Genuinely curious.

I have posted-on this board-at least 6 times-proof that 80% of gun homicides are perpetrated by those with felony records killing those with similar records. many youths under 18 who are killed have records that are not searchable since juvenile records are not public information.

 

[BretJ]

Well yes, that was actually my point. I would in any case be surprised if any studies are actually out there pinpointing thug-on-thug violence. We do in fact have more factual information determining which of those gun deaths are suicides, which is why I suspect BretJ tried shifting the discussion to that.

Never any intention to try and shift it. I fully intended to find the stats to back up my assertions but I may have to reevaluate that assumption as I was unable to find any hard statistics. My belief was based on an NPR discussion I had heard several years ago involving the CDC. They could show the majority of gun violence occurring in a few heavily populated cities. They could even show the majority of those numbers occurring within a few blocks. Based on what I saw growing up in the DC area (Suitland and Central Ave.) I made the assumption it was primarily gang related. In doing so, I am guilty of doing what I accuse gun Prohibitionists of doing and makeing assumptions, based on conjecture based on statistics taken out of context. So your point is taken. Barring that, it is my opinion based on my observations, that a majority of criminal homicides with a firearm are criminal on criminal.

 

[Cardinal]

Never any intention to try and shift it. I fully intended to find the stats to back up my assertions but I may have to reevaluate that assumption as I was unable to find any hard statistics. My belief was based on an NPR discussion I had heard several years ago involving the CDC. They could show the majority of gun violence occurring in a few heavily populated cities. They could even show the majority of those numbers occurring within a few blocks. Based on what I saw growing up in the DC area (Suitland and Central Ave.) I made the assumption it was primarily gang related. In doing so, I am guilty of doing what I accuse gun Prohibitionists of doing and makeing assumptions, based on conjecture based on statistics taken out of context. So your point is taken. Barring that, it is my opinion based on my observations, that a majority of criminal homicides with a firearm are criminal on criminal.

Okay, thanks for admitting that, but opinions can legitimately be wrong. Seriously. If I said it's my opinion that chocolate cake is tasty, that's an opinion based on fact (my own taste buds). If I say that it's my opinion that all Jews are bankers, that's just a wrong opinion. So if you strongly suspect that your theory is correct, knock yourself out and track down that stat, but until such time you may have to be content with shelfing that opinion.