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Guardian piece on Senate CIA torture report

apdst said:
Why would it be illegal and un-American? We executed German and Japanese troops during WW2 without the benefit of a trial. The Nuremberg trials were set up to achieve a desired outcome. I mean, who thought anyone at Nuremberg was going to found, "not guilty"?
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And you take pride in that? Remind me again how are you better than them?
 
apdst said:
No, she shouldn't. Lol
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Funny thing with democracy is you need to plan on the other guy having the power too. And when it comes to a justice system, you should plan for a system in which you are ok with being a defendant.
 
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Deuce said:
Funny thing with democracy is you need to plan on the other guy having the power too. And when it comes to a justice system, you should plan for a system in which you are ok with being a defendant.
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Hillary Clinton is the price of democracy. Any idiot can run for office.
 
apdst said:
Hillary Clinton is the price of democracy. Any idiot can run for office.
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This is why I am not remotely comfortable with our government creating an in-between legal classification where an individual doesn't have the due process rights of the civilian criminal justice system and also doesn't have the rights granted to prisoners of war. If I hook up with a gal at a bar and it turns out she's a CIA analyst's girlfriend, I'd like to have a lawyer before I end up in Guantanamo bay.
 
prometeus said:
And you take pride in that? Remind me again how are you better than them?
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We have freedom and liberty. We don't murder millions of innocent people.
 
Deuce said:
This is why I am not remotely comfortable with our government creating an in-between legal classification where an individual doesn't have the due process rights of the civilian criminal justice system and also doesn't have the rights granted to prisoners of war. If I hook up with a gal at a bar and it turns out she's a CIA analyst's girlfriend, I'd like to have a lawyer before I end up in Guantanamo bay.
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The terrorists at Gitmo aren't American citizens
 
apdst said:
We have freedom and liberty.
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Are we the only ones? Besides, that was not the question.

We don't murder millions of innocent people.
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People of Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, etc. etc. would disagree, but at how many exactly do you draw the line and how many millions have died due to terrorism?
 
apdst said:
The terrorists at Gitmo aren't American citizens
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So what? If a government decides to chuck due process, they aren't going to give a **** whether you're a citizen or not.

Fourteenth amendment says ANY PERSON. I believe in that.
 
apdst said:
You didn't know that German troops died from starvation and exposure in Allied prison camps after WW2? They were redesignated, "disarmed enemy forces", and the rules suddenly didn't apply.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager

That isn't including the millions that were taken to Russia, to be used as slave labor. Most never returned.
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According to the article only .3% of Nazis died in US captivity. In Soviet captivity, 15% Nazis died. But given that Nazi crimes against Jews and Russians were extraordinary, I can not blame the Soviet treatment of the Nazis. That was a World War.
 
SCitizen said:
According to the article only .3% of Nazis died in US captivity. In Soviet captivity, 15% Nazis died. But given that Nazi crimes against Jews and Russians were extraordinary, I can not blame the Soviet treatment of the Nazis. That was a World War.
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The nazis got what deserved. So should the terrorists.
 
Deuce said:
So what? If a government decides to chuck due process, they aren't going to give a **** whether you're a citizen or not.

Fourteenth amendment says ANY PERSON. I believe in that.
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You want to mirandize them next?
 
apdst said:
The nazis got what deserved. So should the terrorists.
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In ordinary time even the worst criminals have the benefit of Eighth Amendment. During WWII with all Soviet losses, normal functioning of society was briefly suspended.
 
prometeus said:
Are we the only ones? Besides, that was not the question.

People of Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, etc. etc. would disagree, but at how many exactly do you draw the line and how many millions have died due to terrorism?
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Those people shouldn't have gone to war with us. It was war. The sooner it ends, the fewer people will die.
 
prometeus said:
People of Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, etc. etc. would disagree, but at how many exactly do you draw the line and how many millions have died due to terrorism?
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Dresden was a Nazi city during WWII.

But indeed, USA is guilty of about two million civilian deaths mostly bombing Japan 1945, North Korea 1950-53 and Southeast Asia 1965 -- 73.
 
prometeus said:
Remind me again how are you better than them?
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Terrorists are very few -- they can cause limited damage. If USA abandons The Constitution it would cause enormous damage.

Already, USA tortures tens of thousands of people by Supermax Prisons.
 
SCitizen said:
In ordinary time even the worst criminals have the benefit of Eighth Amendment. During WWII with all Soviet losses, normal functioning of society was briefly suspended.
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9h, ordinary times . Was the 9/11 attack ordinary?
 
SCitizen said:
Dresden was a Nazi city during WWII.

But indeed, USA is guilty of about two million civilian deaths mostly bombing Japan 1945, North Korea 1950-53 and Southeast Asia 1965 -- 73.
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The fascists and the communists are responsible for those deaths. If not for them, we wouldn't even have been there.
 
apdst said:
Why are you trying to justify the murder of 3,000+ innocents?
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That was a tragedy, but it did not disturb the normal application of The Laws and life in USA. It was not a World War.
 
apdst said:
The fascists and the communists are responsible for those deaths. If not for them, we wouldn't even have been there.
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USA has a very long history of Human Rights violations -- Slavery, and murder of civilians. At this point all of us should work on upholding The Constitution.
 
SCitizen said:
That was a tragedy, but it did not disturb the normal application of The Laws and life in USA. It was not a World War.
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The laws say that illegal combatants aren't protected by normal due process.

And, the 8th Amendment doesn't say, "all people".
 
SCitizen said:
USA has a very long history of Human Rights violations -- Slavery, and murder of civilians. At this point all of us should work on upholding The Constitution.
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No, The United States doesn't have a, "long history", of any of that.
 
apdst said:
The laws say that illegal combatants aren't protected by normal due process.

And, the 8th Amendment doesn't say, "all people".
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When it was written it applied to the worst highwayman, and now it applies to the worst serial killer.
 
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