Greenspan warns of paying off debt too soon [W:32] (1 Viewer)

[Vern]

Can you believe that one of the reasons for the Bush Tax Cuts was because Greenspan warned us that paying off the debt too soon would cost 'extra'. mmmm, the only question is that more ridiculous than "tax cuts pay for themselves"? Remember when every conservative was ordered to believe that nonsense? I do. anyhoo....

"
Running surpluses without a debt, Greenspan warned, would result in the "longer-term fiscal policy issue" of a government paying off its debt, particularly long-term Treasury bonds, before the bonds mature — costing it extra money by buying back those securities from private investors before they mature. Which is very expensive — better to buy back only matured bonds, which won't be possible until at least 2011"
"

Greenspan's Brave New World Has Room for Bush's Tax Cut - TIME

 

[Fisher]

Yeah that is crazy unless you want to make an offer to big holders.

 

[American]

I've lost respect for Greenspan every since he blamed Bush for everything, and failed to take responsibility for his keeping interest rates too low too long.

 

[lizzie]

Ummmm- he doesn't need to worry about it. We're never going to pay it off.

 

[KevinKohler]

After his tenure, Greenspan came out and DECLARED that his economic beliefs were wrong. Look it up.

 

[samsmart]

Can you believe that one of the reasons for the Bush Tax Cuts was because Greenspan warned us that paying off the debt too soon would cost 'extra'. mmmm, the only question is that more ridiculous than "tax cuts pay for themselves"? Remember when every conservative was ordered to believe that nonsense? I do. anyhoo....

"
Running surpluses without a debt, Greenspan warned, would result in the "longer-term fiscal policy issue" of a government paying off its debt, particularly long-term Treasury bonds, before the bonds mature — costing it extra money by buying back those securities from private investors before they mature. Which is very expensive — better to buy back only matured bonds, which won't be possible until at least 2011"
"

Greenspan's Brave New World Has Room for Bush's Tax Cut - TIME

Planet Money did a podcast episode about what happened when we did pay off the national debt, and I believe they also explain why we carry a national debt.

Episode 273: When The U.S. Paid Off The Entire National Debt : Planet Money : NPR

 

[Fenton]

Can you believe that one of the reasons for the Bush Tax Cuts was because Greenspan warned us that paying off the debt too soon would cost 'extra'. mmmm, the only question is that more ridiculous than "tax cuts pay for themselves"? Remember when every conservative was ordered to believe that nonsense? I do. anyhoo....

"
Running surpluses without a debt, Greenspan warned, would result in the "longer-term fiscal policy issue" of a government paying off its debt, particularly long-term Treasury bonds, before the bonds mature — costing it extra money by buying back those securities from private investors before they mature. Which is very expensive — better to buy back only matured bonds, which won't be possible until at least 2011"
"

Greenspan's Brave New World Has Room for Bush's Tax Cut - TIME

LOL.....

Well, Obama and his hordes of useful idiots took care of that for us...

Unbelievable. STILL the Bush blame.

How bankrupt can the lefts ideology get ?

We have real issues to deal with, issues that make Bush's increase in spending look like a trip to the dollar store.

Our Fed is creating aa massive asset bubble, our debt is growing, our dependence and entitlment spending is increasing and the GDP is shrinking.

Europes too far gone to save and investors and, corporations and banks are sitting on their capital, not pushing it back into the economy.

Investors are buying up bonds because the Fed falsely inflating their value.

ObamaCare cost have more than hextupled and BO is talking about ....2% of our debt and gun control.

Oh and libs call this a "recovery".

 

[Fenton]

I've lost respect for Greenspan every since he blamed Bush for everything, and
failed to take responsibility for his keeping interest rates too low too long.

Yes I agree. But to his credit allot of those crap mortgages were ARMS.

 

[American]

Yes I agree. But to his credit allot of those crap mortgages were ARMS.

He kept that bubble going, then tried blaming Bush who was following his advice. Greenspan needs to grow up and grow a pair.

 

[Bigfoot 88]

After his tenure, Greenspan came out and DECLARED that his economic beliefs were wrong. Look it up.

Including reaffirming his 60's support for the gold standard.

 

[Vern]

I've lost respect for Greenspan every since he blamed Bush for everything, and failed to take responsibility for his keeping interest rates too low too long.

er uh American, low interest rates dont cause a mortgage bubble. Bush's policies that encouraged funded and protected the Mortgage bubble cause a mortgage bubble. As conservatives, I'm sure you guys are all blissfully ignorant of the exact Bush policies that caused it.

The reason you can point to these policies is because it started in late 2004. these policies are all the same year (please dont post and tell me Bush tried to stop it or its barney's fault) These policies explain why No doc loans go from 4.3% of all mortgages to over 50 % of all mortgages in 2006. Yea, 1 in 2 loans didnt verify income. (its why you have regulators)

Bush protects predatory lenders 2004
Bush campaigns on the strength of his housing market 2004
Bush repeatedly says he wants 5.5 million new minority home owners
Bush gives away 40,000 free home downpayments 2004
Bush relaxes net capital rule 2004 (helps fund the bubble)
Bush allows Zero Downpayments
Bush forces GSEs to buy more low income home loans 2004
Bush's regulators do nothing about 300 % increase in subprime and 1000 % in no doc loans
banks start changing their charters to be federally 'regulated' 2004

 

[Vern]

LOL.....

We have real issues to deal with, issues that make Bush's increase in spending look like a trip to the dollar store.

Our Fed is creating aa massive asset bubble, our debt is growing, our dependence and entitlment spending is increasing and the GDP is shrinking.

".

er uh fenny, Its not just Bush's increase in spending. Its also Bush's decrease in revenue via the tax cuts and the Great Bush Recession. Revenue collapse was the biggest cause of the deficit in 2009. I posted the tables countless times how did you miss them?

anyhoo, Bush asked for and got a 3.1 trillion dollar budget. Revenue was expected to be 2.8 trillion. Well with depression esque -8.9 % GDP, millions of jobs lost, TARP and the GSE bailout, the CBO revised spending for FY 2009 to 3.54 trillion and revenues to 2.35 trillion. That changed Bush's 300 billion budget deficit to 1.2 trillion (BEFORE PRESIDENT OBAMA TOOK OVER). here's the best part, actuals came in under that estimate but revenue collapsed another 250.


_____________1/7/09____actuals
Total Revenues__ 2,357__ 2,105
Total Outlays__ _ 3,543__ _ 3,518

So in 2009, revenue collapse was 700 billion of the 1.1 trillion change in the estimate. Hence in 2009, revenue was the biggest cause of the deficit. And this years budget estimate for spending is 3.55. Four years after bush asked for 3.1 trillion (but spent 3.5 trillion), we are going to spend 3.55 trillion. To still say "its only a spending problem" when its almost entirely a revenue problem is just laughable.

why do you guys cling to bumper sticker slogans that arent even true?

 

[Fenton]

er uh American, low interest rates dont cause a mortgage bubble. Bush's
policies that encouraged funded and protected the Mortgage bubble cause a mortgage bubble. As conservatives, I'm sure you guys are all blissfully ignorant of the exact Bush policies that caused it.

The reason you can point to these policies is because it started in late 2004. these policies are all the same year (please dont post and tell me Bush tried to stop it or its barney's fault) These policies explain why No doc loans go from 4.3% of all mortgages to over 50 % of all mortgages in 2006. Yea, 1 in 2 loans didnt verify income. (its why you have regulators)

Bush protects predatory lenders 2004
Bush campaigns on the strength of his housing market 2004
Bush repeatedly says he wants 5.5 million new minority home owners
Bush gives away 40,000 free home downpayments 2004
Bush relaxes net capital rule 2004 (helps fund the bubble)
Bush allows Zero Downpayments
Bush forces GSEs to buy more low income home loans 2004
Bush's regulators do nothing about 300 % increase in subprime and 1000 % in no doc loans
banks start changing their charters to be federally 'regulated' 2004

Oh BS. There wouldn't have been a collapse had Clinton had not forced the GSEs under HUD mandate to buy up trash mortgages.

In 1995 Clinton re-inforced the CRA laws to force a target compliance on lenders who for the first time since 1977 HAD to loan to low income borrowers.

That wasn't enough. Those Democrat mandated standards were extended to the GSEs through the same EXECUTIVE ORDER by Clinton and in 1997 the GSEs bought their first low quality loan.

The GSEs with Clintons buddies installed, bought crap mortgages, bundled them with good mortgages and pushed them into the investment market as AAA securities.

The GSEs financed the collapse under Clintons mandated HUD enforcement and littered the market with toxic MBSs.

Clinton replaced all the top GSE executives throughout his presidency.

That ass clown Governor in NY Cuomo in 2000 pledged 2 trillion to buy up "affordable mortgages.

Clintons appointee Franlin Raines recieved over 90 million.

Bush from 2001 to 2007 tried to get FANNIE under control. One problem.

The DEMOCRAT CONGRESS prevented it because they were eye ball deep in corruption.

 

[Fenton]

er uh fenny, Its not just Bush's increase in spending. Its also Bush's decrease in
revenue via the tax cuts and the Great Bush Recession. Revenue collapse was the biggest cause of the deficit in 2009. I posted the tables countless times how did you miss them?

anyhoo, Bush asked for and got a 3.1 trillion dollar budget. Revenue was expected to be 2.8 trillion. Well with depression esque -8.9 % GDP, millions of jobs lost, TARP and the GSE bailout, the CBO revised spending for FY 2009 to 3.54 trillion and revenues to 2.35 trillion. That changed Bush's 300 billion budget deficit to 1.2 trillion (BEFORE PRESIDENT OBAMA TOOK OVER). here's the best part, actuals came in under that estimate but revenue collapsed another 250.


_____________1/7/09____actuals
Total Revenues__ 2,357__ 2,105
Total Outlays__ _ 3,543__ _ 3,518

So in 2009, revenue collapse was 700 billion of the 1.1 trillion change in the estimate. Hence in 2009, revenue was the biggest cause of the deficit. And this years budget estimate for spending is 3.55. Four years after bush asked for 3.1 trillion (but spent 3.5 trillion), we are going to spend 3.55 trillion. To still say "its only a spending problem" when its almost entirely a revenue problem is just laughable.

why do you guys cling to bumper sticker slogans that arent even true?

Oh please.

There was a REVENUE problem in 2009 ???

No sh** ?

You can thank your boy wonder President Bill Clinton for that one.

His stacked the GSEs with his buddies, lowered their standards for buying sub-prime loans, and put them under HUD mandate.

He through the Commodities Futures Modernization Act exempted Credit Default Swaps from Regulations.

He allowed the repeal of Glass Steagal so those Sub-prime mortgages could be bundled with good mortgages as MBSs and sold back into the Investment markets as AAA Securities.

Can you believe it ? Some people are so incredibly naive they blame the banks.

Janet Reno and Holder sued banks when they weren't burning American women and children alive and the GSEs bought over 70 % of Country Wides loans.....among others.


So keep the Blame Bush nonsense coming. So I can continue to slap it down and expose your hypocrisy.

 

[Samhain]

If you pay off your bond holders early, you will lose long-term buyers unless you boost rates, hence a perceived increased cost of debt.

 

[Vern]

oh fenny, your posts are mish mosh of lies, spin and incredible ignorance. this statement alone proves it

"The DEMOCRAT CONGRESS prevented it because they were eye ball deep in corruption."

congress was republican in 2004 when the Bush Mortgage Bubble started. And it got more republican in 2005 because Bush campaigned on the strength of HIS HOUSING MARKET. the first thing you need to learn is the timeframe of the Bush Mortgage bubble. Let Bush's Working Group on Financial Markets explain it to you (be warned everything I post will be the first time you've ever seen it. It'll be very upsetting for you)

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/q4progress update.pdf

the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

"The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007. "

so fenny every desperte attempt to blame anybody and everybody but bush needs to explain its correlation to banks lowering their lending standards in late 2004 and how it prevented Bush's regulators from stopping the banks.

 

[Vern]

Here's bush telling you he wants 5.5 million new minority home owners and also saying he will use federal policies to increase home ownership (fyi, the 'critics' are just Barney Frank)

Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership

We want more people owning their own home in America," Bush said. His goal is to have 5.5 million minority homeowners in the country by the end of the decade.

And while Bush has emphasized promoting home ownership in his federal housing policy proposals, critics say that help for low-income renters and more affordable housing is a much more sorely needed focus.

Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership | Fox News

 

[Fenton]

Here's bush telling you he wants 5.5 million new minority home owners and also
saying he will use federal policies to increase home ownership (fyi, the 'critics' are just Barney Frank)

Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership

We want more people owning their own home in America," Bush said. His goal is to have 5.5 million minority homeowners in the country by the end of the decade.

And while Bush has emphasized promoting home ownership in his federal housing policy proposals, critics say that help for low-income renters and more affordable housing is a much more sorely needed focus.

Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership | Fox News

LOL...Barney Frank.

He was instrumental in lowering the under writer standards for lenders.

But in 2003 after PriceWaterHouseCooper ran the first true objective audit in years and found Fannie and Freddie had misreported billions in earnings and used improprer hedging techniques he said...

" I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound...."

Yea, he and you are wrong.

Hey remember when Hagel asked for details concerning the GSEs losses in 2002 ?
Yea he was told that was "finacial and proprietary"....Hmmmmm

I've got pages of details in the Bush investigation of the GSEs. You realize Fannie and Enron had the same auditor under Clinton ?

Yep, they were replaced in 2002 with PriceWaterHouseCooper.

For 5 years the REPUBLICANS investigated the GSEs and the Dems and Raines dug in.

You need to learn your History.

I'll be back later to educate you, busy now.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Here's bush telling you he wants 5.5 million new minority home owners and also saying he will use federal policies to increase home ownership (fyi, the 'critics' are just Barney Frank)

Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership

We want more people owning their own home in America," Bush said. His goal is to have 5.5 million minority homeowners in the country by the end of the decade.

And while Bush has emphasized promoting home ownership in his federal housing policy proposals, critics say that help for low-income renters and more affordable housing is a much more sorely needed focus.

Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership | Fox News

Hmm.. there is something familiar about this post. it's like
everything written is
about ideology and substance
doesn't even matter.
Of course, I could be wrong. I haven't
fact checked it yet. I
Just have this sense that
of
all the information presented, something isn't
quite right.
understand that this is only my opinion and
in no way should it be taken as gospel... at least
not until further research can be done.

 

[Panzareta]

Hmm.. there is something familiar about this post. it's like
everything written is
about ideology and substance
doesn't even matter.
Of course, I could be wrong. I haven't
fact checked it yet. I
Just have this sense that
of
all the information presented, something isn't
quite right.
understand that this is only my opinion and
in no way should it be taken as gospel... at least
not until further research can be done.

Executive Summary

Buying a home is the biggest single investment most people will make in their lives. Homeownership is a cornerstone of America’s healthy, vibrant communities, and benefits individual families by helping them build stability and long term financial security. But sadly, homeownership is out of reach for many Americans - especially for minority families. For millions of these families, homeownership is a distant, unreachable dream.

President Bush has a comprehensive agenda to help increase the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million before the end of the decade.

While the overall homeownership rate has reached an all time high of nearly 68 percent, the statistics show a clear and persistent homeownership gap:

Despite increases in minority homeownership during the decade of the 1990s, large persistent gaps between non-Hispanic whites and minorities remain and have narrowed only slightly;
According to HUD, in 1994 the minority homeownership rate was 26.8 percent below the rate for white households;
The African-American homeownership rate was 27.5 percentage points below the white rate, and the Hispanic rate was 28.8 percentage points below the white rate;
The second quarter Census data for 2002 shows that non-Hispanic whites have a 74.3% homeownership rate, while African-Americans have a 48% rate and Hispanics a 47.6% rate; and
Asian-Americans and other races have a 53.7% homeownership rate.


Homeownership Policy Book - Executive Summary

 

[Vern]

Hey fenny, did you ever figure out who controlled congress? I’ll be chuckling about that for a long time. Anyhoo, yes GSEs inflated earnings. Can you explain the connection between GSEs counting expenses as capital spending and Banks lowering their lending standards in late 2004? Mmmm, and how did the GSE accounting scandal (yea scandal, not fraud) prevent Bush’s regulators from stopping the banks from lowering their lending standards in late 2004? Like I said, you post a mish mosh of lies spin and incredible ignorance. Hey fenny, here’s a nice youtube video for you. I know how cons like you don’t like reading. Now, it doesn’t have quick cuts and edits. There is no soundtrack with ominous tones and no voiceover telling you what your opinion should be . In fact its kinda boring except about 6 minutes in, W brags that Freddie and Fannie are on board with his housing plans. My eyesight aint so good, what do those signs behind W say?

Home Ownership and President Bush - YouTube

and jack, I'm vern. I wouldnt mind you guys fact checking my posts. could you do it before the usual "that's not true" responses I constantly get. It would cut down on the pointless responses I get

 

[Jack Fabulous]

and jack, I'm vern.

Sure you are.

 

[Fenton]

Hey fenny, did you ever figure out who controlled congress? I’ll be chuckling about that
for a long time. Anyhoo, yes GSEs inflated earnings. Can you explain the connection between GSEs counting expenses as capital spending and Banks lowering their lending standards in late 2004? Mmmm, and how did the GSE accounting scandal (yea scandal, not fraud) prevent Bush’s regulators from stopping the banks from lowering their lending standards in late 2004? Like I said, you post a mish mosh of lies spin and incredible ignorance. Hey fenny, here’s a nice youtube video for you. I know how cons like you don’t like reading. Now, it doesn’t have quick cuts and edits. There is no soundtrack with ominous tones and no voiceover telling you what your opinion should be . In fact its kinda boring except about 6 minutes in, W brags that Freddie and Fannie are on board with his housing plans. My eyesight aint so good, what do those signs behind W say?

Home Ownership and President Bush - YouTube

and jack, I'm vern. I wouldnt mind you guys fact checking my posts. could you do it before the usual "that's not true" responses I constantly get. It would cut down on the pointless responses I get

Banks lowering their lending standards in 2004 ?

What a joke. Try 1995 under Clintons Afforable Housing Strategy Act. Which also pushed the GSEs to lower their standards on which loans they could buy.

The Clinton appointees inflated the GSEs earnings to hit their target bonus numbers. It's why Wall Street started shorting their stock in 2003.

How many of the 19 million loans that wound up on Government backed or insured institutions is Bush responsible for ? While he was investigating the GSEs ? While the Dems and the GSEs were doing everything they could to hide corruption ?

I gave you that Barney Frank quote. No response. Or you stop your empty criticisms when there's a D in front of someone's name ?


I get why you you have chosen to start 8 years into the sub-prime debacle.

But it's your problem, no one elses. So maybe reserve your cherry picking and nonsense for a forum full of morons like the democrat underground.

 

[tech30528]

To me this is akin to the old advice from investment counselors who insisted that you needed a mortgage for the tax deduction. But if you paid $10000 a year in interest to get a $2000 tax break, wouldn't you rather keep the $10000 and just pay your taxes?

 

[Vern]

Banks lowering their lending standards in 2004 ?

What a joke. Try 1995 under Clintons Afforable Housing Strategy Act. Which also pushed the GSEs to lower their standards on which loans they could buy.

The Clinton appointees inflated the GSEs earnings to hit their target bonus numbers. It's why Wall Street started shorting their stock in 2003.

How many of the 19 million loans that wound up on Government backed or insured institutions is Bush responsible for ? While he was investigating the GSEs ? While the Dems and the GSEs were doing everything they could to hide corruption ?

I gave you that Barney Frank quote. No response. Or you stop your empty criticisms when there's a D in front of someone's name ?


I get why you you have chosen to start 8 years into the sub-prime debacle.

But it's your problem, no one elses. So maybe reserve your cherry picking and nonsense for a forum full of morons like the democrat underground.

oh fenny, you're the first con I've dealt with that clings to delusions about the Bush Mortgage bubble. I posted Bush's working group telling you banks lowered their lending standards in late 2004. You dont get to pretend it you didnt see it. and I've posted bush telling you that he wanted 5.5 million new minority home owners. You dont get to pretend not to know it. I even posted a youtube of Bush telling you that his good friends freddie and fannie were on board with his housing agenda. What did those signs behind W say?

You should read Bush's housing manifesto that Panzareta posted. I like the part where he makes freddie and fannie buy 400 billion of mortgages on the secondary market. talk about funding a bubble. oh, you probably were afraid to click on the link. Here, let me cut and paste if for you

"The President is issuing "America’s Homeownership Challenge" to the real estate and mortgage finance industries to join in his effort to increase the number of minority homeowners by 5.5 million families by the end of the decade. Many organizations have already responded to the President’s challenge by committing to:

•Substantially increase by at least $440 billion, the financial commitment made by the government sponsored enterprises involved in the secondary mortgage market, specifically targeted toward the minority market;
"

hey fenny, did you ever figure out who controlled congress? See how you find out that the things you believe arent true but your opinion doesnt change. Its what makes you a conservative.