Give horsemeat to the poor - Dirk Niebel, German Development Minister [W:49]

[Cyrylek]

Exactly..that is why the horsemeat scandal is scary..

Who the hell knew where these horses came from..

Oh yes..countries where they don't give a f**xx...

Nobody is saying that food supply should not be traceable and transparent - that's no reason to destroy a lot of food that is shown to be safe by any reasonable standard.

But please don't give us that "countries where they don't care" stuff. The Irish meat processors had made an immediate (before any real investigation could be done) claim that someone, somewhere in Poland is to blame, not them, but nobody has provided any real evidence. The Polish meat-producing facilities may be imagined as some relics of the Cold War-era times, but in reality they are mostly modern, well-equipped and monitored according to standards not any different from German or Scandinavian.

 

[Cyrylek]

I'm living mainly off canned 'meat' and Ramen noodles these days. Frankly i think horse-meat (with or without health and safety controls) would be far better for me.

I think if one compares the (normally) short term damages of mild food poisoning with the kind of damage that to much salt can do to you then the latter is far more concerning.

Even the meat carrying a load of phenylbutazone would do you any harm only if you consume a lot of it, over a long period of time. In reality, no food is perfectly "safe" - or equally safe for everyone. Organic strawberries, almonds and parsley will kill you, if you are prone to hyperoxaluria. The best strategy - just like in economic policies or personal finances - is to diversify, and not eat too much of any one thing, however "good for you".

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- I haven't gotten an answer yet though. :shrug:

I've posted links before. Didn't feel I needed to repeat myself.

However -

Tests prove that 8 horse carcasses with bute in them recently entered the French food chain.

EU orders Europe-wide testing to be done - however it is suspected that horsemeat has been in the food chain for a while now.

Govt Health Minister confirms that bute present in 8 horse carcasses. These are not Romanian horses but British horses. The carcasses entered a processing plant which then supplied mush makers and mush fillers for processed foods.

The claims are that the amounts involved may be low however an earlier link I posted explained that it is not easy to define the correct amount that is safe / unsafe to human health. It's a lottery which is why bute is banned from the human food chain.

General Q & A.

-- If, however, someone is selling 50% horsemeat burger, it becomes a legitmate question. Fortunately, it is easy to test for. As far as I understand, no phenylbutazone was found in any of the lots under consideration.

Is 100% enough to be a concern?

--(Would be odd, anyway, to provide expensive treatment to horses you plan to slaughter soon...)

That's why the police are investigating criminal gangs doing this - nobody legal is going to slaughter prime racehorses to put them in cheap burgers.

 

[Cyrylek]

That's why the police are investigating criminal gangs doing this - nobody legal is going to slaughter prime racehorses to put them in cheap burgers.

Unless a government does something really stupid...and in some places prime racehorses are not the predominant subspecies. I don't know if there's any hard evidence that Romanian horsemeat is actually the culprit, but Bucharest did ban the once-omnipresent horse carts a few years ago. With the whole transportation-horse industry ruined overnight, I wonder if the resulting surplus of animals could have something to do with these incidents....

Horses left to starve after Romania bans carts - Telegraph

 

[Infinite Chaos]

--I don't know if there's any hard evidence that Romanian horsemeat is actually the culprit --

There are a range of culprits however the majority of a lot of the horsemeat in beef products seem to have come from Romanian abattoirs. Romania correctly labelled horsemeat for human consumption as horsemeat but when it reached France the labelling had now changed to beef. There have also been plenty of other examples of horsemeat from other countries (especially the UK) getting to processing plants in France.

I believe the Romanian horsemeat to have been OK - it's the DIY suppliers from elsewhere who also supply the processing plants that are not.

 

[DA60]

Nah - feed the poor to the poor.

Soylent Green!!!

 

[Viv]

Nah - feed the poor to the poor.

Soylent Green!!!

You said that because you're a robot.

 

[Red_Dave]

How Britain got a taste for horsemeat | Life and style | The Guardian

 

[German guy]

How Nazi is this..we all have a job..pay our taxes.. you are poor..so would you mind eating the ****e that no-one else wants to eat??

You read "German" and your first kneejerk reaction is "Nazi"? Guess we have to live with that.

Well, just FYI, this guy, Dirk Niebel, is a libertarian. He's member of the Free Democrats (FDP), the small libertarian coalition partner of Merkel's center-right/conservative Christian Democrats, and he think's of America's society as a great example to follow in Germany.

So maybe the appropriate reaction would rather be: "How libertarian is this?"

Fortunately, only few Germans agree with him. The FDP is down to 4% of the votes in polls.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

You read "German" and your first kneejerk reaction is "Nazi"? Guess we have to live with that.

Well, just FYI, this guy, Dirk Niebel, is a libertarian. He's member of the Free Democrats (FDP), the small libertarian coalition partner of Merkel's center-right/conservative Christian Democrats, and he think's of America's society as a great example to follow in Germany.

So maybe the appropriate reaction would rather be: "How libertarian is this?"

Fortunately, only few Germans agree with him. The FDP is down to 4% of the votes in polls.

I'm really not sure destroying this food, if its completely safe, is the most libertarian view. Seems more common sense

 

[German guy]

I'm really not sure destroying this food, if its completely safe, is the most libertarian view. Seems more common sense

Well, wasn't it Dirk Niebel who proposed not to destroy it, but to "give it to the poor"?

I haven't really thought this through, but I'm not sure I find this idea generally bad. And I didn't really want to comment about it, more about the "Nazi" remark.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Well, wasn't it Dirk Niebel who proposed not to destroy it, but to "give it to the poor"?

My point is that doesn't seem to be particularly libertarian. If you have food, and people could use said food, giving it to them seems the logical conclusion over destroying it

 

[German guy]

My point is that doesn't seem to be particularly libertarian. If you have food, and people could use said food, giving it to them seems the logical conclusion over destroying it

Sorry, I misunderstood you. Yes, I guess you're right.

I don't have a problem with companies selling horsemeat, btw. But they are required to sell it as horse meat, not as beef. That's the whole problem, as far as I can tell.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- Fortunately, only few Germans agree with him --

I didn't think there was a tradition of hippophagy in Germany.

I'm also curious why so many Americans have come to this thread promoting the eating of these contaminated meals when the slaughter of horses for human consumption was banned across the USA in 2007?

What's the ulterior motive? You don't / won't eat it yourselves (except to say so in a thread even when it's not openly available in the US) but you want it given to "the poor?"

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I seem to remember that self sufficiency in food supplies was one of the aims of the bloated Common Agricultural Policy but somehow I don't think this was what was meant.

Meanwhile, the ever more complex food chains (often driven by Supermarkets and Consumer pressure) continues to ignore local meat supplies and we end up transporting meat mush from one country to another across Europe to be processed, reprocessed and then fed to school kids and budget buyers.

Something's gone badly wrong here. I know several pork and beef farmers around here (my partner's step-father for one) who get very little for the quality beef they produce but somehow we still have to import meat mush from across the world to feed us?

Why? [/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

"We can't just throw away good food."

Why not? We do it ALL THE TIME . . . if someone was paying the **** attention it wouldn't have happened.

But honestly - stick it in stores and label the **** "contains horsemeat." . . . and STOP saying it's 'tainted' as if horsemeat is anything other than just meat. It's an animal - it's been processed into it's meaty components for consumption . . . it's a meat.

Some people just have an ick factor.

 

[PirateMk1]

***** How the hell do you report such an abusive post?? Why is there no ''report'' button on-line??

You started off being abusive. You got what you earned. You want to make a report find a moderator.

Theres a saying thats applicable to this thread. "Dont look a gift horse in the mouth."

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

I didn't think there was a tradition of hippophagy in Germany.

I'm also curious why so many Americans have come to this thread promoting the eating of these contaminated meals when the slaughter of horses for human consumption was banned across the USA in 2007?

What's the ulterior motive? You don't / won't eat it yourselves (except to say so in a thread even when it's not openly available in the US) but you want it given to "the poor?"

Lol, of all threads to turn into some nationalist chest thumping match... 1) people have stressed "if" the meat is safe 2) the views of individual citizens=/=current us law 3) just lol at ulterior motive.

Derp

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Lol, of all threads to turn into some nationalist chest thumping match... 1) people have stressed "if" the meat is safe 2) the views of individual citizens=/=current us law 3) just lol at ulterior motive.

Derp

It was an observation - you guys don't have it available so it's easy to say "why not eat it, it's only meat."

And I repeat - slaughter of horse for human consumption is banned in the US.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

It was an observation - you guys don't have it available so it's easy to say "why not eat it, it's only meat."

And I repeat - slaughter of horse for human consumption is banned in the US.

OK, we have established the slaughtering of horses for meat is banned in the USA. Now can you please explain how that speaks to anything that was posted in this thread?

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

PS after doing some research the slaughtering ban was lifted last year.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

OK, we have established the slaughtering of horses for meat is banned in the USA. Now can you please explain how that speaks to anything that was posted in this thread?

It was a personal observation, if you wanted to make a mountain out of a molehill, knock yourself out.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

It was a personal observation, if you wanted to make a mountain out of a molehill, knock yourself out.

Dude, you were the one making accusations about ulterior motives

 

[clownboy]

In 1951, Time magazine reported from Portland, OR: "Horsemeat, hitherto eaten as a stunt or only as a last resort, was becoming an important item on Portland tables. Now there were three times as many horse butchers, selling three times as much meat." Noting that "people who used to pretend it was for the dog now came right out and said it was going on the table," and providing tips for cooking pot roast of horse and equine fillets. A similar situation unfolded in 1973, when inflation raised the cost of traditional meats. Time reported that "Carlson's, a butcher shop in Westbrook, CT that recently converted to horse meat exclusively, now sells about 6,000 pounds of the stuff a day." The shop produced a 28-page guide called "Carlson's Horsemeat Cook Book" with recipes for chili con carne, German meatballs, beery horsemeat, and more.[96]

Source

 

[Panzareta]

No, you've taken it too far when you introduce "Nazi" into the thread, the German minister and the priest's sentiment may be deluded but it isn't "Nazi."



That excuse could be used for all sorts of foods that people wouldn't eat. The problem is not just the horsemeat or charging beef prices for horse - it's the messed up food chain we have, it's the Supermarkets driving down farmer's margins and then sourcing mush from across Europe when there's perfectly good meat available locally.

There's also the question of Bute and other drugs pumped into horses that are harmful to humans.

While I can't argue abut the messed up food chain, non organic beef in the US are routinely fed Bovatec from the time they are weanings until the day they are slaughtered. A substance that's toxic to both human and horses.

Plus non organic steers routinely receive estrogen/progesterone ear tag implants to increase weight gain. Not to mention other ear tags that release insecticides. Plus wormers and vaccinations against pneumonia and other diseases such as black leg. And some give them antibiotics in their feed or water every day up to two weeks or so before slaughter.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

While I can't argue abut the messed up food chain, non organic beef in the US are routinely fed Bovatec from the time they are weanings until the day they are slaughtered. A substance that's toxic to both human and horses.

Plus non organic steers routinely receive estrogen/progesterone ear tag implants to increase weight gain. Not to mention other ear tags that release insecticides. Plus wormers and vaccinations against pneumonia and other diseases such as black leg. And some give them antibiotics in their feed or water every day up to two weeks or so before slaughter.

Thanks, it seems that in 2012, Canada and Mexico stopped accepting US horses destined for slaughterhouses when concerns about their chemical history in the US were raised. Apparently it was quite easy to forge the proof documents showing the animals were always meant for human consumption and thus not injected with nasties. Two former racehorses were saved in this way - racehorses are always given bute and other injections because they are usually not eaten.

Then despite the 5 year ban being raised on US slaughter of horses for human consumption, it seems they are still not widely seen as a food item - much as there isn't a long history in Germany either where the suggestion of giving a contaminated food item to the poor was raised.

So why are so many so keen that poor europeans eat horsemeat where there is not tradition?