Girl Too Young For Tattoo Offered Irreversible Gender Surgery.

[CLAX1911]

Grooming someone to be transgender is not medically possible.

Well it is a social thing not a medical thing. So duh.

I dont care what you believe. It is not possible.

Wallow in ignorance.

This has been known for 50+ years. If it were possible to groom someone to be trans then it would also be possible to groom a transgender person to be cisgender. That doesn't happen and cannot happen.

Why because you say so?

Did someone groom you to be gay?

So gay and transgender is the same thing?

Tell me about your supposed ability of observation when you have never met any Drs or psychologists?

I've met doctors and psychologists.

I dare you to post those lies.

So you have no idea what it's even about but you automatically presume that it's a lie.

Yeah everything's a lie that goes against your ideology.

This is starting to look much like a religion and less like a science. At least for you

The Drs are not harming patiemnts by treating them in the approved manner that has proven 95% effective for 50+ years.

So when something like a lobotomy was an approved treatment that wasn't abuse?

I think castration and mastectomies to help people pretend to be the opposite sex will be seen the same way we see lobotomies. In a couple of years.

Also there was psychologists that believed slaves escaping captivity suffered from a mental illness.

So yeah doctors and psychiatrists can absolutely be wrong they have been in the past many many times.

Reading your claims and those of MrNiceGuy are not less insane than those of young earth creationists, anti-vaxxers, moon landing deniers and 5G conspiracy theorists.

Yeah I know it triggers you but you don't ever argue against it you just deny it and pretend that medical practitioners are some sort of godlike creature that can do no wrong.

But I'm guessing only when they tell you something you want to hear

 

[Lisa]

Well it is a social thing not a medical thing. So duh.

Gender studies majors or professors are not involved in treatment of transbgebnder patients. You dont understand the difference between gender roles, gender expression and gender identity. They are all very different.

Wallow in ignorance.

You might start to understand.

Why because you say so?

Because of medical/psych facts

So gay and transgender is the same thing?

I didn't say that. Understanding analogies is not something you are abuse to do.

I've met doctors and psychologists.

I have my doubts.

So you have no idea what it's even about but you automatically presume that it's a lie.

Post them.

Yeah everything's a lie that goes against your ideology.

Gender idneity is not an ideology. That is another false conservative claim.

This is starting to look much like a religion and less like a science. At least for you

There is nothing religious about it. Science is the opposite of religion but you dont understand science because you are emotionally driven by your beliefs.

So when something like a lobotomy was an approved treatment that wasn't abuse?

Nobody is performing lobotomies.

I think castration and mastectomies to help people pretend to be the opposite sex will be seen the same way we see lobotomies. In a couple of years.

Nobody is pretending, but because you don't understand gender identity, so it looks like people are pretending to you.

Also there was psychologists that believed slaves escaping captivity suffered from a mental illness.

They likely did suffer from PTSD because of captivity and abuse.

So yeah doctors and psychiatrists can absolutely be wrong they have been in the past many many times.

And yet you have no evidence of that. None.

Yeah I know it triggers you but you don't ever argue against it you just deny it and pretend that medical practitioners are some sort of godlike creature that can do no wrong.

I never said they can do no wrong,. That is another strawman from you.

But I'm guessing only when they tell you something you want to hear

You are projecting again.

 

[Common Sense 1]

Another day, another bit of anti-trans propaganda.

So you think it's okay for a minor to make this decision. A minor? A minor who can't take aspirin at school with out the parents okay?

Should Minors have a right to decide unilaterally to have Gender Reassignment Surgery?​

 

[Helix]

So you think it's okay for a minor to make this decision. A minor? A minor who can't take aspirin at school with out the parents okay?

Should Minors have a right to decide unilaterally to have Gender Reassignment Surgery?​

How did bolding that and increasing the font size make you feel?

 

[Common Sense 1]

How did bolding that and increasing the font size make you feel?

Not going to answer the question?

The bold is exactly fron the thread title.

Stop stalling and answer the question.
Or can we expect another dodge?

 

[CLAX1911]

Gender studies majors or professors are not involved in treatment of transbgebnder patients. You dont understand the difference between gender roles, gender expression and gender identity. They are all very different.

How are they different. You claim this and claim this and claim this but when asked how are they different you just give bs platitudes.

You might start to understand.

Because of medical/psych facts

Draptomania was once a psych fact and lobotomies were once considered medical facts.

I didn't say that. Understanding analogies is not something you are abuse to do.

Well when you're going to draw analogies you need something that's analogous.

I have my doubts.

That's your business.

Post them.

Make me.

Gender idneity is not an ideology. That is another false conservative claim.

But you are an ideological that's why you can't prove anything you claim. They're just axioms.

There is nothing religious about it. Science is the opposite of religion but you dont understand science because you are emotionally driven by your beliefs.

Then why do you need to speak in axioms instead of providing the slightest shred of evidence for anything you claim?

Nobody is performing lobotomies.

The point was it was medical practice at one time and it was seen as just as legitimate.

Nobody is pretending, but because you don't understand gender identity, so it looks like people are pretending to you.

You don't understand gender identity either you can't explain it every time I ask you, you just blurt out the words science and also the word fact as if that magically makes the stupid shit you believe science and facts

They likely did suffer from PTSD because of captivity and abuse.

I don't know if you're misunderstanding on purpose or if you're trying to be cute. But there was a psychologist that said it was a mental illness for a slave to escape. Is it not wanting to be a slave made you mentally ill.

And you apply an illness to me that you want to exist because I don't agree with you.

And yet you have no evidence of that. None.

So you think there was a proper diagnosis that required lobotomies?

I never said they can do no wrong,. That is another strawman from you.

So show that they're not wrong about four year olds being transgendered

You are projecting again.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

[CLAX1911]

So you think it's okay for a minor to make this decision.

Seems like being a concerned parent is anti trans

A minor? A minor who can't take aspirin at school with out the parents okay?

Should Minors have a right to decide unilaterally to have Gender Reassignment Surgery?​

I think the belief that they should is more about virtue signaling

 

[Lisa]

So you think it's okay for a minor to make this decision. A minor? A minor who can't take aspirin at school with out the parents okay?

Should Minors have a right to decide unilaterally to have Gender Reassignment Surgery?​

How many times do people need to be told that the patient does not make this decision unilaterally. It doesn't happen that way.

 

[CLAX1911]

How many times do people need to be told that the patient does not make this decision unilaterally. It doesn't happen that way.

I don't think the patient should be subject to any decision based on this at all. I think it's cruel and sets them up for a life of suffering.

 

[Helix]

Not going to answer the question?

The bold is exactly fron the thread title.

Stop stalling and answer the question.
Or can we expect another dodge?

Are you a gender identity therapist?

 

[Lisa]

I don't think the patient should be subject to any decision based on this at all. I think it's cruel and sets them up for a life of suffering.

Would you like for me to explain to you the definition of unilaterally? If you had even half of the understanding of this subject that somehow you are convinced you do , you would keep your mouth shut and learn instead of broadcasting your obvious ignorance. Nobody is setting the client up for a lifetime of suffering, except those who want politicians to make medical decisions that they are not qualified to make. You are wrong about every claim you make because you still do not understand even the most basic concept of gender identity. Until you learn that fact nothing else will be understandable to you.

 

[CLAX1911]

Would you like for me to explain to you the definition of unilaterally?

I don't need definitions I don't know why you need to be condescending all the time it's like you're being defensive against something.

If you had even half of the understanding of this subject that somehow you are convinced you do , you would keep your mouth shut and learn instead of broadcasting your obvious ignorance.

Pathetic attempts to insult are typically signs that you're heavily emotionally invested and that my doubt of your claims causes you some angst. Now why would that be?

Nobody is setting the client up for a lifetime of suffering,

Yeah they are. Telling kid that can change their sex is fraud. When that kid finds out want was stolen from them they'll likely be depressed and even both straight and gay people don't want to have anything to do with them romantically they'll know what suffering is. And you want them to be forced down thus path. That's evil.

except those who want politicians to make medical decisions that they are not qualified to make.

The medical decision is not castrating a child for fraud purposes is a fine thing for the government to interfere with

You are wrong about every claim you make because you still do not understand even the most basic concept of gender identity.

Gender identity is a lie.

Until you learn that fact nothing else will be understandable to you.

Until you prove it to be a fact it's a lie

 

[Bodi]

,,, if a minor is granted a right like gender reassignment surgery without parental consent when they can not get a tattoo or smoke or drink or drive a car they the parent should be able to disown the minor child and let the kid fend for themselves and the State is liable. Either the parent is in charge or the kid is on their own.

 

[maquiscat]

So you think it's okay for a minor to make this decision. A minor? A minor who can't take aspirin at school with out the parents okay?

Should Minors have a right to decide unilaterally to have Gender Reassignment Surgery?​

Some minors should be allowed to take an aspirin without the parents needing to okay it, especially those in the middle/Jr high area and up.

 

[roguenuke]

So you think it's okay for a minor to make this decision. A minor? A minor who can't take aspirin at school with out the parents okay?

Should Minors have a right to decide unilaterally to have Gender Reassignment Surgery?​

Taking aspirin (or any meds) at school is a matter of school liability, but it is also recommended that not even young adults take aspirin. Aspirin is not good for most people.

Who can and cannot take aspirin for pain relief

NHS medicines information on who can and cannot take aspirin for pain relief.

www.nhs.uk

I just saw an ad/FSA in the last 2 weeks that said aspirin shouldn't be given to/taken by anyone under 25 because of increased risk of some syndrome.

 

[roguenuke]

Some minors should be allowed to take an aspirin without the parents needing to okay it, especially those in the middle/Jr high area and up.

Tylenol I'd agree with along with some other meds, but not aspirin. Aspirin is not good for young adults even. UK has banned it being given to anyone under 16.

Aspirin

Aspirin is a medicine used to decrease pain, fever or swelling (inflammation). It may also help thin the blood and slow down how fast it clots. Store brand, generic or name brand aspirin is equally good. Generic or store brands often cost less.

www.nationwidechildrens.org

I just saw an ad that said it shouldn't be given to people under 25, as they are apparently finding more side effects or find them in more age groups from it than they thought.

 

[Dragonfly]

The problem with this argument is that transitioning is a life improving procedure for them.

There is no "problem".

A minor is too young.
Once they're a legal adult they still have the majority of their life left to "transition" as they please.
And then they can't come back and blame their parents/doctors for the choices they made.

Let me ask you this:

Would you approve "gender reassignment surgery" for a 5 year old?

 

[roguenuke]

,,, if a minor is granted a right like gender reassignment surgery without parental consent when they can not get a tattoo or smoke or drink or drive a car they the parent should be able to disown the minor child and let the kid fend for themselves and the State is liable. Either the parent is in charge or the kid is on their own.

Minors can drink in several states with parental permission. They can drive cars as young as 14.5 years old in several states, but on their own in many states at 16. And several states allow tattoos for minors or don't have laws against it, mostly again, with parental approval.

Pretty sure all the gender surgeries that have occurred regarding minors have involved positive parental consent unless the minor was declared an emancipated minor, in which they would already be considered as "fending for themselves".

 

[reinaert]

A fourteen year old needs parental consent for all sorts of modifications of self, including those which alter sense of time and place, ethical valuations, or the appreciation of the inconcrete, like art, beauty, the sublime, and self-entertainment.

But.

An adult does not need a fourteen year old's consent to punish, discipline, ideologically mold, train for a skill, technique, job or sport, physically push to limits, control food and sleep, restrict sociality, raise afraid of other races or creeds, chastise, shame, berate, ridicule or otherwise irrevocably alter that child's sense of self, world, and self in the world.

This is not, for the record, precisely a complaint. Just a restatement of the actual contemporary conditions.

Which means:

The broadly anti-queer movement is not about 'parental rights' or religious liberty. They want to retain and even enhance all the power and social permission they already have. And they've realized they need to criminalize the choices of parents who raise other kinds of people else they are doomed to failure, because the alternative ways of being are just more attractive, satisfying and ultimately more successful approaches to making persons.

 

[Common Sense 1]

How many times do people need to be told that the patient does not make this decision unilaterally. It doesn't happen that way.

If there is a minor involved then a parent or guardian must be involved in the decision.

 

[reinaert]

If there is a minor involved then a parent or guardian must be involved in the decision.

But not when they send their kids to the library to read about gay parents, black history or magical fantasy; then, parental involvement is curtailed in favor of the authoritarian project of ethnonationalists and their falangist fellow-travellers. Funny how that works...

 

[Lisa]

If there is a minor involved then a parent or guardian must be involved in the decision.

I never said otherwise.

 

[Lisa]

There is no "problem".

A minor is too young.
Once they're a legal adult they still have the majority of their life left to "transition" as they please.
And then they can't come back and blame their parents/doctors for the choices they made.

How exactly do you plan to effectively treat gender dysphoria in a teen if you deny them the ability to transition until they are 18, if they do manage to live that long when necessary care is withheld? Those that do survive until 18-21 will l have lifetime emotional scars and a much lower quality of life.

Let me ask you this:

Would you approve "gender reassignment surgery" for a 5 year old?

No surgery for a 5 year old because there is no need to do so. I would and do support social transitioning for a child. Hormones would be discussed at the onset of puberty if the child still showed signs of gender incongruence and or dysphoria and wanted to pursue that route of care. The decision for surgery is made by the treatment team and the patient, if the patient chooses to have surgery and it is medically warranted. A parent is only there as a courtesy and for their education because they can neither force or deny necessary effective care, or they can and will be replaced by a court-appointed guardian who will do what is in the best interests of the teen client.

 

[Dragonfly]

How exactly do you plan to effectively treat gender dysphoria in a teen if you deny them the ability to transition until they are 18

Good lord...

18 is still a teenager isn't it?

Also - therapy.

Teenagers have all kinds of problems. All kinds. Depression, anxiety, ADHD, OCD.....the whole shit-can of mental disfunction, but it's also completely engulfed in hormones and ignorance.

No surgery for a 5 year old because there is no need to do so.

Right.
There's also "no need" to do so on a 15 year old.
They can wait until they are 18 and a legal adult.

I'd go so far as to say it should not be done on anyone under 21 but I'm old-school that way.
Most 18 year olds don't know shit about themselves either.

People need some level of actual life experience before they permanently, medically/medicinally, alter their lives for the rest of their life.

 

[Lisa]

Good lord...

18 is still a teenager isn't it?

Also - therapy.

Teenagers have all kinds of problems. All kinds. Depression, anxiety, ADHD, OCD.....the whole shit-can of mental disfunction, but it's also completely engulfed in hormones and ignorance.

That would be part of or ruled out in the gender diagnosis. Depression and anxiety are very common in people who have gender identity issues. They would be treated p[parallel to the gender, but often the hormones held with the depression.

Right.
There's also "no need" to do so on a 15 year old.
They can wait until they are 18 and a legal adult.

No, that is not true. It seems to me that you dont think that this is severe medical problem but instead you see it is cosmetic. You could not be more wrong with that stance.

I'd go so far as to say it should not be done on anyone under 21 but I'm old-school that way.
Most 18 year olds don't know shit about themselves either.

The teen doesn't self diagnosis their gender incongruence, so your idea is not an issue. That is made by a psychologist, psychiatrist or clinical social worker.

People need some level of actual life experience before they permanently, medically/medicinally, alter their lives for the rest of their life.

This is a mental health issue and the patient often knows from very early in life that they felt different from people who are cisgender.