Far-Right Anti-Merkel Rises in Germany... The right-wing populists of Europe...

[MickeyW]

MANNHEIM, Germany — In the current tussle for the future of Germany, Frauke Petry is what you might call the anti-Angela Merkel.
From Our Advertisers

Where Ms. Merkel, the chancellor, has welcomed refugees, Ms. Petry, a rising far-right leader, has said border guards might need to turn guns on anyone crossing a frontier illegally.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/10/w...nts-spawns-rise-of-far-right-leader.html?_r=0

 

[Crovax]

MANNHEIM, Germany — In the current tussle for the future of Germany, Frauke Petry is what you might call the anti-Angela Merkel.
From Our Advertisers

Where Ms. Merkel, the chancellor, has welcomed refugees, Ms. Petry, a rising far-right leader, has said border guards might need to turn guns on anyone crossing a frontier illegally.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/10/w...nts-spawns-rise-of-far-right-leader.html?_r=0

When I saw the title I was honestly expecting an onion article and the leaders name to be Drumpf, :sigh:

 

[Carjosse]

Apparently many Germans failed to learn from the last time.

 

[MickeyW]

When I saw the title I was honestly expecting an onion article and the leaders name to be Drumpf, :sigh:

When the establishment, in any country, act insanely stupid.....it will give rise to candidates who provide sanity.

Over there, the establishment Merkel, is an idiot! Over here, establishment Democrats and Republicans alike....are idiots.

Germans need to give Petry a chance....can't do any worse. Same here. Give Trump a chance, the alternative on either side of the isle, is more of the same crap!

Apparently many Germans failed to learn from the last time.

Having been there a few times, I'd say their massive egos are a major stumbling block.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

When the establishment, in any country, act insanely stupid.....it will give rise to candidates who provide sanity.

Over there, the establishment Merkel, is an idiot! Over here, establishment Democrats and Republicans alike....are idiots.

Germans need to give Petry a chance....can't do any worse. ~

Words fail me. You acknowledge that she advocates shooting refugees trying to cross into Germany in post one and then four posts later say Germany should give her a chance (at power?)

Why?

 

[Roadvirus]

Apparently many Germans failed to learn from the last time.

Maybe if the current leadership wasn't trying to destroy Germany with it's open door immigration policy, Far-Right groups wouldn't be on the rise.

 

[Fishking]

Apparently many Germans failed to learn from the last time.

Failed to learn what the last time of what?

 

[Carjosse]

Failed to learn what the last time of what?

The last time the far right became popular in Germany. You might be familiar with the man and what he did, Hitler.

 

[Grant]

Maybe if the current leadership wasn't trying to destroy Germany with it's open door immigration policy, Far-Right groups wouldn't be on the rise.

Anything that's not far left in Europe is far right. That's starting to catch on over here too.

 

[Fishking]

The last time the far right became popular in Germany. You might be familiar with the man and what he did, Hitler.

Oh...I was confused. I thought you were referring to another time in Germany's history where they had to defend their borders, not where they acted aggressively and violated the borders of other countries. Additionally, Hitler came to power not from the right but as a socialist. That may have been a guise of sorts, if we want to quibble about details, but the initial rise was via the left. That much is fact.

 

[Carjosse]

Oh...I was confused. I thought you were referring to another time in Germany's history where they had to defend their borders, not where they acted aggressively and violated the borders of other countries. Additionally, Hitler came to power not from the right but as a socialist. That may have been a guise of sorts, if we want to quibble about details, but the initial rise was via the left. That much is fact.

He was a fascist, which is a far-right ideology. Communists and socialists were his chief opponents, it was the left-wing that opposed his rise to power and after he rose to power he put them into concentration camps.

 

[Fishking]

He was a fascist, which is a far-right ideology. Communists and socialists were his chief opponents, it was the left-wing that opposed his rise to power and after he rose to power he put them into concentration camps.

He didn't rise as a fascist. The name Nazi actually stands for something. Then you have a definite socialist in Vladimir Lenin. You could perhaps say that Germany played a role in doing this to themselves as they facilitated the return of Lenin from political exile in WWI after the collapse of the last Russian Czar in an attempt to get Russia to pull out of the war so Germany could shift it's forces to the Western front.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

Anything that's not far left in Europe is far right. That's starting to catch on over here too.

"Starting."

 

[Carjosse]

He didn't rise as a fascist. The name Nazi actually stands for something. Then you have a definite socialist in Vladimir Lenin. You could perhaps say that Germany played a role in doing this to themselves as they facilitated the return of Lenin from political exile in WWI after the collapse of the last Russian Czar in an attempt to get Russia to pull out of the war so Germany could shift it's forces to the Western front.

Nazi may stand for national socialism but it has nothing to do with socialism except maybe a love for authoritarianism. In fact one of the key tenants of Nazism is hatred of socialists and communists. The left always opposed Hitler, and Hitler had always been part of the far-right. The enabling act was only passed after all the members of the Communist Party were arrested and the Social Democrats were threatened or psychically prevented from voting. Then before that the brown shirts harassed, threatened, and attacked left-wing publications, supporters, and party meetings.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Nazi may stand for national socialism but it has nothing to do with socialism except maybe a love for authoritarianism. In fact one of the key tenants of Nazism is hatred of socialists and communists. The left always opposed Hitler, and Hitler had always been part of the far-right. The enabling act was only passed after all the members of the Communist Party were arrested and the Social Democrats were threatened or psychically prevented from voting. Then before that the brown shirts harassed, threatened, and attacked left-wing publications, supporters, and party meetings.

First of all it should be highlighted that right wing in Europe means something totally different than it means here in the US.

That noted, can you point out where you get this information about a key tenet being a hatred of socialists? I get the communist hatred, that was international socialism, not controled by Germans but directed by the Soviets. They were also a threat being from which both were to draw their common base.

It WAS a workers party, not a managers party, it WAS against capitalism, and have you ever read their 25 Point Program put out in 1920 by Hitler himself? Would you guess that one of it points was the abolition of debt/interest slavery? Does that sound right wing, sure sounds anti bank to me. What about a demand for a division of all profits of all heavy industry... does that sound right wing to you? How about a nationalization of business trusts? Sure doesnt sound right wing to me, nor does and expansion of old age welfare or a demand for land reform or a state national education program... nor the call for the punishment by death of usurers and profiteers...

All sounds pretty leftish to me... maybe you can point out some of the right leaning tendencies for us?

 

[Carjosse]

First of all it should be highlighted that right wing in Europe means something totally different than it means here in the US.

That noted, can you point out where you get this information about a key tenet being a hatred of socialists? I get the communist hatred, that was international socialism, not controled by Germans but directed by the Soviets. They were also a threat being from which both were to draw their common base.

It WAS a workers party, not a managers party, it WAS against capitalism, and have you ever read their 25 Point Program put out in 1920 by Hitler himself? Would you guess that one of it points was the abolition of debt/interest slavery? Does that sound right wing, sure sounds anti bank to me. What about a demand for a division of all profits of all heavy industry... does that sound right wing to you? How about a nationalization of business trusts? Sure doesnt sound right wing to me, nor does and expansion of old age welfare or a demand for land reform or a state national education program... nor the call for the punishment by death of usurers and profiteers...

All sounds pretty leftish to me... maybe you can point out some of the right leaning tendencies for us?

It also forgoes the idea of egalitarianism and equality advocating social darwinism, it also very much wanted to protect people's business holdings, as long as they were Aryan. They have a similar populist platform but balk at the idea of equality, a foundation of socialism.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

It also forgoes the idea of egalitarianism and equality advocating social darwinism, it also very much wanted to protect people's business holdings, as long as they were Aryan. They have a similar populist platform but balk at the idea of equality, a foundation of socialism.

So if it isnt right wing and not left wing, why don't you just do us all a favor and quit calling it right wing. I mean, as just expressed here by me in my last post, it may not be solely socialistic, but it is far more so than it is the other way. The other way, the right is somewhat hard to define in Europe of those days.

But usually when right wing is accused, without drawing the line, one almost automatically links it to US right wing... which ironically is actually liberal, classical liberal anyhow.

 

[Sweden]

The last time the far right became popular in Germany. You might be familiar with the man and what he did, Hitler.

Do not buy into the silly notion that to oppose uncontrolled mass migration is 'far right'. AfD is called 'far right' by the establishment who are trying to frighten people away from voting for it The tone of of the NYT article is heavily slanted. It talks of AfD having "elbowed its way in" to some regional assemblies. Translation: some Germans have voted for this perfectly respectable and democratic political party. It is not by even the wildest stretch of imagination remotely comparable to the Nazis. To suggest that it is is hysterical nonsense.

 

[Sweden]

Nazi may stand for national socialism but it has nothing to do with socialism except maybe a love for authoritarianism. In fact one of the key tenants of Nazism is hatred of socialists and communists. The left always opposed Hitler, and Hitler had always been part of the far-right. The enabling act was only passed after all the members of the Communist Party were arrested and the Social Democrats were threatened or psychically prevented from voting. Then before that the brown shirts harassed, threatened, and attacked left-wing publications, supporters, and party meetings.

Hitler cut his teeth as a public speaker at Socialist party meetings and rallies. Far from "always opposing" Hitler it was the German left who gave him his start in politics. He certainly saw himself as a man of the left - but in favour of national, rather than international, socialism. It was the same with Mussolini who had earlier created the Fascist party. Right up to the time he did so he was the most prominent socialist journalist in Italy.

Btw in Britain the man who founded the British Fascists, Oswald Mosely, was a Labour party grandee, a minister in a Labour government no less, just before he did so.

You have a lot of reading to do before you begin to understand where what is now called the 'far right' came from.

 

[Sweden]

He was a fascist, which is a far-right ideology. Communists and socialists were his chief opponents, it was the left-wing that opposed his rise to power and after he rose to power he put them into concentration camps.

Hitler eliminated other communist and socialist parties because they were rivals for the voter base he had to secure. Another example of the way left wing forces turn on each other.

If you want a current example look at the war going on within the British Labour Party.

 

[instagramsci]

Hitler eliminated other communist and socialist parties because they were rivals for the voter base he had to secure. Another example of the way left wing forces turn on each other.

What planet are you from? No one who has ever lived on this planet could interpret history this wrong

 

[austrianecon]

The last time the far right became popular in Germany. You might be familiar with the man and what he did, Hitler.

Hitler wasn't far right.

 

[austrianecon]

He was a fascist, which is a far-right ideology. Communists and socialists were his chief opponents, it was the left-wing that opposed his rise to power and after he rose to power he put them into concentration camps.

Fascism isn't a far-right ideology. Fascism is collectivist. Far right is anarchy.

 

[Sweden]

What planet are you from? No one who has ever lived on this planet could interpret history this wrong

Planet Earth. For close to eighty years. During my time on the planet time Hitler sent his Wehrmakt to drive me out of Paris and make me a refugee in June 1939. Then his Luftwaffe to bomb me in England in 1940,41 and 42. He then went on to fire V1 and V2 rockets at me in London. Later I read a lot about Hitler - and a lot of wider history - because I wanted to understand why he went all out to get me.

So I take no lessons about "interpreting history" from someone who displays the flag of a murderous regime every bit as bad as the Nazis. You should be ashamed.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Fascism isn't a far-right ideology. Fascism is collectivist. Far right is anarchy.

"Anarchy" is not right or left. What planet are you from?