Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

[Kushinator]

There are many including me who say we have failed. The world is less safe and more people are dependent than ever before on federal taxpayer dollars. To me that is a failure

And yet here we are; more employment, higher wages, wealth, etc.... than in any other time in this country's history. The only thing this administration failed at, in your eyes, is not being Republican.

 

[Conservative]

You are letting your politics get in the way of critical thought. Medicare and Social Security reduced poverty among the elderly, who are not going to be in the best position to pay for health care costs or earn a living. Why isn't there a private sector solution to the high costs of healthcare among the elderly?



Addicted? The systems are designed as paygo. How did you come up with this utopia where everyone saves and earns enough to pay for their healthcare costs during the latter stages of life?

Medicare and SS weren't supposed to be what they have become which is typical of most govt. programs. there were to be a supplement to retirement, not sole retirement and in fact most people weren't supposed to be alive to collect it when it was first created. It has turned into a Ponzi Scheme as the money put into the account was spent as part of the unified budget and people working today are paying for my retirement supplement. Medicare is similar to any govt. program red tape, inefficiencies, and have created a dependence that will never go away.

Doesn't take much intelligence to take what you contribute to SS and your employer, put that money into a simple savings account and then see what you have after your 35 years of employment and the money is yours and your families. Yes, addicted, that is what govt. programs do and why they are a failure when considering the alternative

You appear to be rather smart, do yourself a favor and use a simple investment calculator to see what you would have had you and your employer contributed to a simple savings account over 35 years. As I have told you, my wife died of cancer four years ago. She paid into SS during her working career, died at age 62, I got $255 dollars. where did her contributions go?

 

[Conservative]

And yet here we are; more employment, higher wages, wealth, etc.... than in any other time in this country's history. The only thing this administration failed at, in your eyes, is not being Republican.

Yep, that liberal dream world that ignores the 9.7% U-6 rate and a world on fire but of course this is indeed liberal utopia with an incompetent black man in the WH

 

[Conservative]

Yes, specifically FEDERAL deficit spending.



Refuses to answer questions because they are not related to thread title ....

Demands answers to question not related to thread title ...

wtf

The thread title is Explaining why FEDERAL Deficits are necessary .... states cannot deficit spend.

And the question remains, WHY? The thread doesn't explain why just leftwing talking points. It totally ignores state and local responsibilities and budgets as well as the total dollars per capita paid by all forms of govt.

 

[Kushinator]

Medicare and SS weren't supposed to be what they have become which is typical of most govt. programs. there were to be a supplement to retirement, not sole retirement and in fact most people weren't supposed to be alive to collect it when it was first created.

That people do not save and invest enough to fully fund their retirement is not a fault of S.S. or Medicare. However, they have become a stabilizing force for reducing poverty among the elderly. This is a fact.

It has turned into a Ponzi Scheme as the money put into the account was spent as part of the unified budget and people working today are paying for my retirement supplement. Medicare is similar to any govt. program red tape, inefficiencies, and have created a dependence that will never go away.

You assume, under the basis of partisan ignorance, that S.S. will not be able to meet it's contributions due to it's lending of the accumulated surpluses to the Federal government, and yet offer no support.

Doesn't take much intelligence to take what you contribute to SS and your employer, put that money into a simple savings account and then see what you have after your 35 years of employment and the money is yours and your families. Yes, addicted, that is what govt. programs do and why they are a failure when considering the alternative

That's not what the program is intended to be for; it is social retirement insurance. Nothing stops anyone from building their own retirement portfolio.

She paid into SS during her working career, died at age 62, I got $255 dollars. where did her contributions go?

They were in part paid out to retirees during her working career, and in part collected into the S.S. trust fund. S.S. isn't a retirement account; it is old age survivors insurance.

 

[jaeger19]

BECAUSE YOU CLAIMED THAT WE DIDN'T NEED CREDIT TO GROW THE ECONOMY! So yes, I took credit out of the example, in order to demonstrate that you are wrong. Duh!

Well John.. taking it out of the equation does not prove me wrong.

You just admit it:

No, I understand that savings can re-enter the economy. I also understand that they almost never do. So it's stupid to push that point, as we obviously don't grow our economy through dis-saving

See.. but you don't understand the mechanisms of why we save. You assume that the reason that we don't "dis save" is a static state. when its not.

No, according to me, decreased deficit spending is just a smaller demand injection, not a negative.

Ummm wrong..

In your equation.. less deficit spending would mean less income than the year before which according to you means a recession, and long enough a depression.. unless something else picked up the full amount of decrease.

sorry John.. but no wiggling around here.

 

[jaeger19]

thank you but 19.4 trillion in debt(cumulative deficits) tells me that I am right but thanks for your input

Yawn.. the fact that we have been in debt for most of our countries life.. tells me and any other sane person that I am right.

That and the fact that comparing the US economy when Reagan took office and comparing the economy when Barack Obama took office is absurd.

but thanks for you input.

 

[Kushinator]

Yep, that liberal dream world that ignores the 9.7% U-6 rate

No it doesn't.

The average U-6 rate, prior to the Great Recession, was 8.9%. When we include all data, the average U-6 rate is 10.7%. Please keep in mind the U-6 rate peaked at 17.1% in November 2009. Again, you are speaking purely out of partisan ignorance.

and a world on fire but of course this is indeed liberal utopia with an incompetent black man in the WH

Never said it was a utopia of any kind. But to claim this administration has been a failure, when the data suggests otherwise, is pure partisan ignorance. This is why your ideology has failed.

 

[Conservative]

That people do not save and invest enough to fully fund their retirement is not a fault of S.S. or Medicare. However, they have become a stabilizing force for reducing poverty among the elderly. This is a fact.



You assume, under the basis of partisan ignorance, that S.S. will not be able to meet it's contributions due to it's lending of the accumulated surpluses to the Federal government, and yet offer no support.



That's not what the program is intended to be for; it is social retirement insurance. Nothing stops anyone from building their own retirement portfolio.



They were in part paid out to retirees during her working career, and in part collected into the S.S. trust fund. S.S. isn't a retirement account; it is old age survivors insurance.

No, it is the fault of the Federal Govt. to put SS and Medicare on budget and use it to fund the Vietnam war and then keep it there spending it on whatever the politicians wanted so the politicians can tell the people the system needs more money

As for social insurance, when you have social insurance and die you get a fixed amount of money, not $255. It was supposed to be a supplement, the money was supposed to go into a retirement insurance fund and people are forced to contribute. That creates dependence which is what the left wants. Personal responsibility doesn't exist in the liberal world neither does common sense and logic

 

[Conservative]

No it doesn't.

The average U-6 rate, prior to the Great Recession, was 8.9%. When we include all data, the average U-6 rate is 10.7%. Please keep in mind the U-6 rate peaked at 17.1% in November 2009. Again, you are speaking purely out of partisan ignorance.



Never said it was a utopia of any kind. But to claim this administration has been a failure, when the data suggests otherwise, is pure partisan ignorance. This is why your ideology has failed.

I guess the definition of failure is the issue here. You don't spend as much money as Obama spent and generate the results Obama has generated and call it a success. You look at the world recession and ignore the affects of this recession on the majority in this country. you focus on lost wealth realizing that most of the people in this country don't have any wealth to lose and most didn't have a home that went into foreclosure. This recession was not nearly as damaging to Americans as the 81-82 recession which was compounded by high interest rates that affected EVERY American

Sorry but poor leadership and incompetence led to a prolonged recession which is why the results don't look as good as they did under Reagan and why liberals call this one worse than the 81-82

 

[Kushinator]

No, it is the fault of the Federal Govt. to put SS and Medicare on budget and use it to fund the Vietnam war and then keep it there spending it on whatever the politicians wanted so the politicians can tell the people the system needs more money

:roll:

OK......

As for social insurance, when you have social insurance and die you get a fixed amount of money, not $255. It was supposed to be a supplement, the money was supposed to go into a retirement insurance fund and people are forced to contribute. That creates dependence which is what the left wants. Personal responsibility doesn't exist in the liberal world neither does common sense and logic

That's why it's called social, and not private. It is for the benefit of society and not individuals. Don't like? I don't really care!

 

[Gimmesometruth]

BECAUSE YOU CLAIMED THAT WE DIDN'T NEED CREDIT TO GROW THE ECONOMY! So yes, I took credit out of the example, in order to demonstrate that you are wrong. Duh!

Well John..

Deleting quotes, to not notify.....is such chicken chit tactics.

 

[Kushinator]

Why can you not address my comments: You made a silly response based on the U-6, and want to just ignore your ignorance?

I guess the definition of failure is the issue here. You don't spend as much money as Obama spent and generate the results Obama has generated and call it a success. You look at the world recession and ignore the affects of this recession on the majority in this country. you focus on lost wealth realizing that most of the people in this country don't have any wealth to lose and most didn't have a home that went into foreclosure. This recession was not nearly as damaging to Americans as the 81-82 recession which was compounded by high interest rates that affected EVERY American

High interest rates only impact the borrowers who took out loans during those high interest rates. Everyone else was not impacted by them!!!!!! The early 80's recession was manufactured to combat inflation, it didn't result due to a near collapse of the global financial system. You are so out of touch with reality, it is frightening.

Sorry but poor leadership and incompetence led to a prolonged recession which is why the results don't look as good as they did under Reagan and why liberals call this one worse than the 81-82

Different eras result in different dynamics. You have absolutely no means of understanding the transition of economic growth. Post industrial economies do not grow as fast as industrial economies, mainly because all of the infrastructure investment that has already taken place during industrialization. Future infrastructure expenditures will be dependent upon population growth, which in post industrial economies, slows down rather dramatically.

You refuse to grasp this reality, which is why you will not be able to comprehend the modern economy. Reagan Republicanism is dead, and has been replaced with fear mongering hypocrisy; which is why Trump is your candidate.

 

[Kushinator]

Deleting quotes, to not notify.....is such chicken chit tactics.

That's what he does when pressed, as if having the last word in disagreement means he won the argument.

 

[Conservative]

:roll:

OK......



That's why it's called social, and not private. It is for the benefit of society and not individuals. Don't like? I don't really care!

LOL, is that the way it was sold?

 

[Conservative]

Why can you not address my comments: You made a silly response based on the U-6, and want to just ignore your ignorance?



High interest rates only impact the borrowers who took out loans during those high interest rates. Everyone else was not impacted by them!!!!!! The early 80's recession was manufactured to combat inflation, it didn't result due to a near collapse of the global financial system. You are so out of touch with reality, it is frightening.



Different eras result in different dynamics. You have absolutely no means of understanding the transition of economic growth. Post industrial economies do not grow as fast as industrial economies, mainly because all of the infrastructure investment that has already taken place during industrialization. Future infrastructure expenditures will be dependent upon population growth, which in post industrial economies, slows down rather dramatically.

You refuse to grasp this reality, which is why you will not be able to comprehend the modern economy. Reagan Republicanism is dead, and has been replaced with fear mongering hypocrisy; which is why Trump is your candidate.

High interest rates affected ALL Borrowing not just home ownership. You have no understanding at all of leadership, executive or management skills when it comes to the office Obama holds. He will go down as one if not the worst President in history based upon the debt and the results generated plus the legacy he is leaving.

 

[jaeger19]

Deleting quotes, to not notify.....is such chicken chit tactics.

What the heck are you talking about?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

What the heck are you talking about?

Your chicken chit tactics. You need a picture.....since the words are failing you? Is the description of what you did so complex, so beyond yer ability to comprehend the concept in question, that now you need a diagram?

Let me know...oh confused one.

 

[Critter7r]

The amount of stupid in this post is truly mind boggling. Nothing anyone can say will dissuade you and your ilk from the utterly stupid ideas you forward. The only thing Americans can do is defeat you by any means necessary. Trying to argue with idiots is an exercise in futility. Have a nice day.

Again with the ironing.

 

[Critter7r]

And the question remains, WHY? The thread doesn't explain why just leftwing talking points. It totally ignores state and local responsibilities and budgets as well as the total dollars per capita paid by all forms of govt.

So it's ok for the right (or Moderate Right and a few others specifically) to say that everyone above poverty needs to pay some federal income tax, without regard to the fact that overall taxation per quintile is pretty evenly split to correlate to the percentage of income garnered by that quintile, but when the left wants to segregate federal deficit spending, that's not ok, even though the states can't deficit spend.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

What the heck are you talking about?

Here...I'll make a pretty picture....so as not to confuse you with BIG words:




You see (and let me know if these werds are far too complex), you decided to quote someone and not include the quote tag, so as not to inform them of your response. You do it often, it is a chicken chit tactic to avoid argument, to not let the person you are arguing with know that there is a response.

But go on, act innocent, act like yer unaware of how quoting werks in a VB forum. I find it so cute.

 

[jaeger19]

Here...I'll make a pretty picture....so as not to confuse you with words:

View attachment 67205898


You see (and let me know if these werds are far too complex), you decided to quote someone and not include the quote tag, so as not to inform them of your response. You do it often, it is a chicken chit tactic to avoid argument, to not let the person you are arguing with know that there is a response.

But go on, act innocent, act like yer unaware of how quoting werks in a VB forum. I find it so cute.

Actually I don;t know what you are talking about.

I get no such notifications.

Yet funny enough.. I seem to be able to respond to your diatribes.

I think its funny that you think I am trying to "avoid argument"..

Honestly.. THATS hilarious.

 

[jaeger19]

So it's ok for the right (or Moderate Right and a few others specifically) to say that everyone above poverty needs to pay some federal income tax, without regard to the fact that overall taxation per quintile is pretty evenly split to correlate to the percentage of income garnered by that quintile, but when the left wants to segregate federal deficit spending, that's not ok, even though the states can't deficit spend.

The idea that "everyone needs to pay federal income tax".. to get "skin in the game".. is foolish.

 

[Kushinator]

High interest rates affected ALL Borrowing not just home ownership.

All borrowing that occurred during high interest rate portion of the recession.

You have no understanding at all of leadership, executive or management skills when it comes to the office Obama holds. He will go down as one if not the worst President in history based upon the debt and the results generated plus the legacy he is leaving.

On the contrary, it is you that cannot understand what makes a good leader. Running under the Republican ticket isn't the be all end all.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Actually I don;t know what you are talking about.

I get no such notifications.

Yet funny enough.. I seem to be able to respond to your diatribes.

I think its funny that you think I am trying to "avoid argument"..

Honestly.. THATS hilarious.

Ah...isn't that cute! it doesn't get notifications! It has no idea that deleting quote tags results in no notification being sent! Isn't that just precious! It makes such special responses! They are just darling!