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Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

jaeger19 said:
great.

Explain the mechanisms that allow and encourage us as a nation to net save.
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Mechanisms? We earn money, then we save some of it. How hard is that to understand?

The NET saving part, I already went over - it was that simple math problem, with demand leakages and injections. You said I was wrong, though, so I'm eager to hear your version.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
No, it means that you continually conflate hyperinflation with normal inflation. And I'm generally not worried about normal inflation. A little is a good thing.[/QUOTE
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Nope.. not "conflating" anything.

You just "a little is a good thing".

Okay. tell me what percentage of inflation is hyper inflation.
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JohnfrmClevelan said:
Mechanisms? We earn money, then we save some of it. How hard is that to understand?

The NET saving part, I already went over - it was that simple math problem, with demand leakages and injections. You said I was wrong, though, so I'm eager to hear your version.
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No you didn't John. Its not a simple math problem.

Why do we save? Why do we save some of it? By what mechanism can we save.?
 
jaeger19 said:
Nope.. not "conflating" anything.

You just "a little is a good thing".

Okay. tell me what percentage of inflation is hyper inflation.
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In 1956, Phillip Cagan wrote The Monetary Dynamics of Hyperinflation, the book often regarded as the first serious study of hyperinflation and its effects[4] (though The Economics of Inflation by C. Bresciani-Turroni on the German hyperinflation was published in Italian in 1931[citation needed]). In his book, Cagan defined a hyperinflationary episode as starting in the month that the monthly inflation rate exceeds 50%, and as ending when the monthly inflation rate drops below 50% and stays that way for at least a year.[5] Economists usually follow Cagan’s description that hyperinflation occurs when the monthly inflation rate exceeds 50%.
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Wiki

Now, how about getting to your savings mechanisms. Inflation isn't the subject.
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JohnfrmClevelan said:
jaeger19 said:
Wiki

Now, how about getting to your savings mechanisms. Inflation isn't the subject.
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You seem to believe we have the greatest economy in the world because of deficit spending. Is that true? Is allowing the tax payers to keep more of what they earn deficit spending? Does 20-25% Govt. spending as a percentage of GDP and indication that govt. deserves credit for our economy? Our Founders disagreed with those who believe the govt. is the solution where it is truly the problem. The purpose of the Federal Govt. is to provide for the national defense and the purpose of the state and local governments along with the Federal Govt. is to PROMOTE economic activity and individual wealth creation thus requiring less govt. Your text books ignore human behavior and your charts are pretty but there is no context
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Conservative said:
You seem to believe we have the greatest economy in the world because of deficit spending. Is that true? Is allowing the tax payers to keep more of what they earn deficit spending? Does 20-25% Govt. spending as a percentage of GDP and indication that govt. deserves credit for our economy? Our Founders disagreed with those who believe the govt. is the solution where it is truly the problem. The purpose of the Federal Govt. is to provide for the national defense and the purpose of the state and local governments along with the Federal Govt. is to PROMOTE economic activity and individual wealth creation thus requiring less govt. Your text books ignore human behavior and your charts are pretty but there is no context
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I can tell that you didn't read the thread, as I asked.

Human behavior doesn't really matter much if those humans don't have money. This whole thread has been about demand; government spending is an integral part of demand. But you don't know that, because you can't get past the word "debt," and you can't be bothered to read the thread before you jump in with your red, white, and blue silliness.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
I can tell that you didn't read the thread, as I asked.

Human behavior doesn't really matter much if those humans don't have money. This whole thread has been about demand; government spending is an integral part of demand. But you don't know that, because you can't get past the word "debt," and you can't be bothered to read the thread before you jump in with your red, white, and blue silliness.
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Excuse me.. but if there isn't enough money.. how can we net save?
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
I can tell that you didn't read the thread, as I asked.

Human behavior doesn't really matter much if those humans don't have money. This whole thread has been about demand; government spending is an integral part of demand. But you don't know that, because you can't get past the word "debt," and you can't be bothered to read the thread before you jump in with your red, white, and blue silliness.
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No, you really have no idea what motivates human behavior and blame it all on people not having any money. Why is that? Hint, it has everything to do with human behavior. This country was built on equal opportunity not equal outcome but liberals today ignore that reality and change human behavior by promoting class warfare and giving away other people's money. You have no concept of why some people have money and others don't so your answer is to deficit spend and give them what they want. That destroys incentive and it is incentive that drives people to make money. I do feel sorry for book smart people like you who think only with your heart and look at charts out of context

It is all about human behavior but that fact escapes you
 
jaeger19 said:
thanks..

Inflation is still the subject.

So.. according to you then.. until we get to inflation of 50%.. there is no negative effect on the economy?
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Don't try to be cute, Jaeger. You asked for the line, and I gave you the accepted definition of hyperinflation.
 
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Conservative said:
No, you really have no idea what motivates human behavior and blame it all on people not having any money. Why is that? Hint, it has everything to do with human behavior. This country was built on equal opportunity not equal outcome but liberals today ignore that reality and change human behavior by promoting class warfare and giving away other people's money. You have no concept of why some people have money and others don't so your answer is to deficit spend and give them what they want. That destroys incentive and it is incentive that drives people to make money. I do feel sorry for book smart people like you who think only with your heart and look at charts out of context

It is all about human behavior but that fact escapes you
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All the incentive and hard work and acting right for a job interview won't mean a thing if there aren't enough jobs available for people that need them. You can't right a listing economy by painting the ship.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Don't try to be cute, Jaeger. You asked for the line, and I gave you the accepted definition of hyperinflation.
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No you don;t be cute.

You claim that I am conflating hyperinflation with inflation.

You have purposely made it appear that we only have to worry about "hyper" inflation.

If that's true... then according to you.. until we get inflation of 50% (USING the accepted).. there are no negative consequences for the economy.

So..I ask again.. can there be negative consequences for the economy with an inflation rate UNDER 50%? Yes or no.
 
jaeger19 said:
Sure..which means that your premise that we only have to worry about creating inflation when we outstrip capacity is incorrect..
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Does it really need to be said as " ... inflation worth being concerned about ..." every time instead of just " .. inflation ..."?

Because nobody is concerned about 1 or 2 or even 4% inflation. When it gets to 8, 10, 12%, then we would all agree there is a problem.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
It means we create the money that we create. Whether or not it is enough is another question.
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No its not another question.

If we can save money as a nation.. it means that we have more money than demand.. yes or no.

if no.. how can we save then?
 
According to jaeger, government spending lowers interest rates.
 
jaeger19 said:
No you don;t be cute.

You claim that I am conflating hyperinflation with inflation.

You have purposely made it appear that we only have to worry about "hyper" inflation.

If that's true... then according to you.. until we get inflation of 50% (USING the accepted).. there are no negative consequences for the economy.

So..I ask again.. can there be negative consequences for the economy with an inflation rate UNDER 50%? Yes or no.
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Don't put words in my mouth. We've been over this before. Of course inflation can be harmful. But we are not experiencing harmful inflation, so you are presenting a strawman. And I know why you are doing this, because you are losing the overall debate. You always change the subject when faced with a losing argument.

And yes, you always conflate inflation with hyperinflation.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
All the incentive and hard work and acting right for a job interview won't mean a thing if there aren't enough jobs available for people that need them. You can't right a listing economy by painting the ship.
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And how do you create demand in a consumer driven economy? You think deficit spending is the answer? There are plenty of jobs available for good quality people but the problem is people believing they are worth more than they actually are. Too many want THE job without getting A job to learn and grow. If you are that good take the experience and start your own business.

I can see why this is such a hard concept for you to understand as you have that entitlement mentality and believe that is the role of the Federal Govt. It isn't
 
jaeger19 said:
No its not another question.

If we can save money as a nation.. it means that we have more money than demand.. yes or no.

if no.. how can we save then?
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We can save because new demand injections from credit growth and/or deficit spending allow us to save some of our income, usually without lowering demand year-over-year. I explained that a number of times already, including that bit of math I referred to earlier.
 
Conservative said:
And how do you create demand in a consumer driven economy? You think deficit spending is the answer? There are plenty of jobs available for good quality people but the problem is people believing they are worth more than they actually are. Too many want THE job without getting A job to learn and grow. If you are that good take the experience and start your own business.

I can see why this is such a hard concept for you to understand as you have that entitlement mentality and believe that is the role of the Federal Govt. It isn't
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This whole friggin' thread has been about that very question, yet you still refuse to read the thread. Does your employer know that you are this lazy? You should probably be fired, and allow some hardworking young kid that isn't afraid of a little reading to do your job.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
This whole friggin' thread has been about that very question, yet you still refuse to read the thread. Does your employer know that you are this lazy? You should probably be fired, and allow some hardworking young kid that isn't afraid of a little reading to do your job.
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I don't need the read the thread to realize or see how out of touch with reality you truly are. I have been retired 12 years after working 35 years in the business world hiring, firing, and promoting thousands. I started with basically nothing and worked my way to a very successful career something I believe you will never achieve. You don't have the attitude or the personality for it. That entitlement mentality of yours is the problem. I operated like I was on a one year contract each and every year of that 35 years, survived 6 downsizings, promoted hundreds of people so don't tell me it cannot be done. The lazy one is you because it is easier having someone give you something vs. you earning it. This thread is about deficit spending and this economy which is the greatest in the world wasn't built by the govt. but rather by individual entrepreneurs who took risk, worked hard, and generated wealth for themselves and their family helping others along the way. A very foreign concept to people like you
 
Conservative said:
I don't need the read the thread to realize or see how out of touch with reality you truly are. I have been retired 12 years after working 35 years in the business world hiring, firing, and promoting thousands. I started with basically nothing and worked my way to a very successful career something I believe you will never achieve. You don't have the attitude or the personality for it. That entitlement mentality of yours is the problem. I operated like I was on a one year contract each and every year of that 35 years, survived 6 downsizings, promoted hundreds of people so don't tell me it cannot be done. The lazy one is you because it is easier having someone give you something vs. you earning it. This thread is about deficit spending and this economy which is the greatest in the world wasn't built by the govt. but rather by individual entrepreneurs who took risk, worked hard, and generated wealth for themselves and their family helping others along the way. A very foreign concept to people like you
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Of course you don't need to read the thread! You already know everything there is to know about all the subjects in the world, just because you had a job, like 90% of everybody in the country. Economics must be a snap to someone of your unique history. Even though you are now retired, and should have plenty of time to read a thread before you jump into it, why bother? Being a man who once held a job, you already know all of the answers. Sit back, enjoy your retirement. Don't read if you don't want to read, just tell all of us young whippersnappers what is what. I'm only an attorney in my fifties, I've seen nothing in my lifetime.

Maybe if you took the time to read and expand your horizons, you might understand why those downsizings occurred.
 
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