Europe: Yes! EU: No!

[Sweden]

Fox on Friday: Europe and the EU are not one and the same - The Conservative Woman

Exactly my position. I am intensely European but loathe the EU. Few are more 'European' than me. Born in one E country and citizen of two others. Educated in a fourth, lived in a fifth, sixth, and seventh.

Every European country has its identity. Attempts to flatten these out and impose a false uniformity from above were doomed to fail which is why the EU is a misconceived monstrosity.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Fox on Friday: Europe and the EU are not one and the same - The Conservative Woman

Exactly my position. I am intensely European but loathe the EU. Few are more 'European' than me. Born in one E country and citizen of two others. Educated in a fourth, lived in a fifth, sixth, and seventh.

Every European country has its identity. Attempts to flatten these out and impose a false uniformity from above were doomed to fail which is why the EU is a misconceived monstrosity.

As a German-educated American living permanently in Europe I agree with you. I think the economic cooperation and military alliances of a united Europe are great, but it doesn't necessarily require an EU or a euro. Ultimately all the EU does is put another level of government in-between the people who actually make the decisions and the electorate. The further you get away from the people, the less likely the politicians will be bound by the beliefs of the public.

A concerted effort by a concerned populace could possibly influence a local town, city, or state politicians and policy decisions, but I don't think anybody feels like anything they do could possibly influence things at the EU level. The entire purpose of it is to supercede the member state's individual sovereignty.

 

[joG]

Fox on Friday: Europe and the EU are not one and the same - The Conservative Woman

Exactly my position. I am intensely European but loathe the EU. Few are more 'European' than me. Born in one E country and citizen of two others. Educated in a fourth, lived in a fifth, sixth, and seventh.

Every European country has its identity. Attempts to flatten these out and impose a false uniformity from above were doomed to fail which is why the EU is a misconceived monstrosity.

I certainly tend to feel Europe less interesting and vibrant than years gone by. Too much "harmonization" by far. But at least you can get a good Döner sandwich in almost every major European city now!

 

[Higgins86]

I'm not European and I don't no many fellow countrymen that would ever refer to themselves as European. Let us not forget that we as a nation have been at odds with the European continent for thousands of years.

 

[Grand Mal]

I'm not European and I don't no many fellow countrymen that would ever refer to themselves as European. Let us not forget that we as a nation have been at odds with the European continent for thousands of years.

Ah, but doesn't the Chunnel make you part of the continent?
Brittania is no longer 'virgo intacta', I've heard.

 

[Carjosse]

I'm not European and I don't no many fellow countrymen that would ever refer to themselves as European.

Well you are not European, that is probably why. Though you might do it when talking about ethnicity.

Let us not forget that we as a nation have been at odds with the European continent for thousands of years.

What?

 

[Carjosse]

Ah, but doesn't the Chunnel make you part of the continent?
Brittania is no longer 'virgo intacta', I've heard.

You could make that argument, they technically did dig a land border to France. You could also consider a portion of the port of Calais British.

 

[Carjosse]

As a German-educated American living permanently in Europe I agree with you. I think the economic cooperation and military alliances of a united Europe are great, but it doesn't necessarily require an EU or a euro. Ultimately all the EU does is put another level of government in-between the people who actually make the decisions and the electorate. The further you get away from the people, the less likely the politicians will be bound by the beliefs of the public.

A concerted effort by a concerned populace could possibly influence a local town, city, or state politicians and policy decisions, but I don't think anybody feels like anything they do could possibly influence things at the EU level. The entire purpose of it is to supercede the member state's individual sovereignty.

Weird, I remember reading somewhere that it is Germans who support the EU the most and are most likely to identify as European first. The EU is just a natural progression, it is a formal structure to those trade and military alliances that seeks to encompass all of Europe. The Euro is actually pretty successful from a finance world point of view. When countries are a as close together and intertwined as Europe is you need some sort of formal structure.

 

[Chagos]

I certainly tend to feel Europe less interesting and vibrant than years gone by. Too much "harmonization" by far. But at least you can get a good Döner sandwich in almost every major European city now!

......yet another instance of German cultural imperialism, seeing how preparation and serving (in bread) originated in Germany :mrgreen:

 

[Chagos]

Weird, I remember reading somewhere that it is Germans who support the EU the most and are most likely to identify as European first. The EU is just a natural progression, it is a formal structure to those trade and military alliances that seeks to encompass all of Europe. The Euro is actually pretty successful from a finance world point of view. When countries are a as close together and intertwined as Europe is you need some sort of formal structure.

.........one of the reasons why one would find least resistance against the common currency in Germany, seeing how she has profited vastly from it.

Especially Southern European tends to see that differently inasmuch as the profiting appears (to its inhabitants) to have happened at their expense.

Not entirely untrue albeit being a vastly simplistic assessment.

 

[Chagos]

I'm not European and I don't no many fellow countrymen that would ever refer to themselves as European. Let us not forget that we as a nation have been at odds with the European continent for thousands of years.

So what does that make the Brits, a special entity belonging to no continent at all? Like the Japanese are not Asian (in their minds)?

Well, the fact that island residence will give a certain insular mentality to many of its dwellers does not negate the fact that they've been on the continental drip ever since their nations' conception.

Without continental influx there'd probably not even be an England, let alone a UK.

 

[joG]

......yet another instance of German cultural imperialism, seeing how preparation and serving (in bread) originated in Germany :mrgreen:

I wondered as I wrote it, whether someone would pick that up.

 

[Now Look....]

Perhaps I can put it succinctly - I can see myself as European, yet not like some latter-day Laval like Jacques Delors!

He's not culture!


We do not require a phoney top level of government to run us, regulate us, cajole or bully us into line or frighten us with trade sanction revenge if we try to leave. (That was mentioned again by one of Brunhilda's right-hand blockwarts: Angela Merkel's 'attack dog' Gunther Krichbaum threatens UK with trade war | Daily Mail Online )

Without continental influx there'd probably not even be an England, let alone a UK.

Damned arrogance. Just like overstuffed sausage Helmut Kohl, when he declared he would make European integration 'irreversible'. Losing independence is not the same as withering on the vine.

And for continental influx, most of those threats were invasions.

 

[Higgins86]

Well you are not European, that is probably why. Though you might do it when talking about ethnicity.


What?

It's a pretty clear statement. The British isles has been at war with different parts of Europe at some point for the last 2000 years. This relative harmony is rare.

 

[Higgins86]

Ah, but doesn't the Chunnel make you part of the continent?
Brittania is no longer 'virgo intacta', I've heard.

The tunnel can be easily destroyed if needed.

 

[Carjosse]

It's a pretty clear statement. The British isles has been at war with different parts of Europe at some point for the last 2000 years. This relative harmony is rare.

The British Isles were fighting among themselves until very recently, like 30 years ago. The rest of Europe has also been fighting among themselves since Roman times really.

 

[Carjosse]

The tunnel can be easily destroyed if needed.

Why the **** would you do that?

 

[Higgins86]

Why the **** would you do that?

In the case of an invasion threat. Obviously last resort but it is something the government has contingency plans for.

 

[Higgins86]

The British Isles were fighting among themselves until very recently, like 30 years ago. The rest of Europe has also been fighting among themselves since Roman times really.

The British isles weren't fighting....just Belfast.

 

[Carjosse]

The British isles weren't fighting....just Belfast.

Belfast, the Republic Ireland, England, mainland Europe.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

I wonder if when Vladimir Putin said he wanted to revive the Soviet Union, if he did not specifically mean in Russia...

 

[Higgins86]

Belfast, the Republic Ireland, England, mainland Europe.

The troubles didn't spread to the republic it was mostly fought in northern Ireland and occasionally the mainland.

 

[Higgins86]

So what does that make the Brits, a special entity belonging to no continent at all? Like the Japanese are not Asian (in their minds)?

Well, the fact that island residence will give a certain insular mentality to many of its dwellers does not negate the fact that they've been on the continental drip ever since their nations' conception.

Without continental influx there'd probably not even be an England, let alone a UK.

We conquered a third of the world on our own....

 

[Chagos]

We conquered a third of the world on our own....

Where undoubtedly true, how at all does this relate to what I pointed out?

Classical non-sequitur, methinks.

 

[Chagos]

Damned arrogance.

history is not your forte, right?

Just like overstuffed sausage Helmut Kohl, when he declared he would make European integration 'irreversible'.

......nor the logic required to avoid non-sequiturs

And for continental influx, most of those threats were invasions.

Yeah. By the very people from which the English derive their name.

Or where do you think both the term Anglo and Saxon come from? Where, for that matter, do you reckon the Celts came from?

The latter being prompted by a Cornish friend of mine once telling me that the English are actually a bastard nation, the only raza pura (not his words, he has no Spanish) being his kind (he probably held the Welsh to be mongrels for all I know).

Now riddle me that one.

Ooops, I forget. History doesn't appear to be your forte.

P.S. do try and learn proper use of the quote function.