Dow over 17,000. thank you again President Obama. [W:1017, 2344]

[Fenton]

Bush deserves what he gets, he destroyed our economy and almost destroyed the country. I didn't, Obama didn't. Simply look at his list of deregulations and and see how those industries that were deregulated fit into the cause of the destroyed economy, I love it, a Quote from doctor conservative-"Those of us who see the bigger picture however understand that Bush alone didn't cause the problem and the problem was going to eventually burst in spite of Bush." This from one of the leaders of no think. This is a wonderful place, humor around every corner, kind of like the regressives seeing a Commie behind every corner.

Lol !!

Low information all the way brother ! Set that bar nice and low.

Clinton signed the 1993 Riegle Neal Interstate Banking Act, and the 2000 Commodities and Futures Act that deregulated derivatives and other Financial instruments.

He also deregulated Fannie and Freddie, co-opted them intro the Subprime marketd and appointed people like Franklin Raines to run them into the ground.

Franklin Raines is a Democrat, a true regressive.

When Democrats destroy something they really DESTROY it.

 

[Fenton]

Oh, you still think that the "bubble" refers to ownership rates!

Hint: It ALWAYS referred to a price bubble.

FFS fenton, I didn't think it was this bad.

Lol !!

No, Housing prices just shot up magically.
Because Bush told them too I guess.

 

[Vern]

Lol !!

No, Housing prices just shot up magically.
Because Bush told them too I guess.

no magic involved Fenton. I've explained it numerous times to you. Bush's policies and regulation let a flood of unqualified buyers into the housing market driving up prices in 2004. Its why Bush told you the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004.

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”

the data backs that up that timeframe (data, not rhetoric). Look at home prices in the 4 bubble states



Bush turned a nice housing boom (that he credited his tax cuts for) into a bubble that destroyed the economy.

 

[Conservative]

no magic involved Fenton. I've explained it numerous times to you. Bush's policies and regulation let a flood of unqualified buyers into the housing market driving up prices in 2004. Its why Bush told you the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004.

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”

the data backs that up that timeframe (data, not rhetoric). Look at home prices in the 4 bubble states

View attachment 67196725

Bush turned a nice housing boom (that he credited his tax cuts for) into a bubble that destroyed the economy.

Actually what you did was put your partisan spin on the report that doesn't say what you are telling us. The bullets were put in the gun long time ago well before Bush and the trigger was pulled with the additional loans. It was a matter of time before the bubble burst, a bubble created mostly by Democrats to provide affordable housing to people who normally wouldn't qualify. it was the Democrats that benefited from the crisis and are trying to do that now blaming Bush. We know your game, Vern and it is getting old

 

[jbander]

Lol !!

Low information all the way brother ! Set that bar nice and low.

Clinton signed the 1993 Riegle Neal Interstate Banking Act, and the 2000 Commodities and Futures Act that deregulated derivatives and other Financial instruments.

He also deregulated Fannie and Freddie, co-opted them intro the Subprime marketd and appointed people like Franklin Raines to run them into the ground.

Franklin Raines is a Democrat, a true regressive.

When Democrats destroy something they really DESTROY it.

This is the bill -------It clarified the law so that most over-the-counter (OTC) derivatives transactions between "sophisticated parties" would not be regulated as "futures" under the Commodity Exchange Act of 1936 (CEA) or as "securities" under the federal securities laws. Instead, the major dealers of those products (banks and securities firms) would continue to have their dealings in OTC derivatives supervised by their federal regulators under general "safety and soundness" standards. The Commodity Futures Trading Commission's (CFTC) desire to have "Functional regulation" of the market was also rejected. Instead, the CFTC would continue to do "entity-based supervision of OTC derivatives dealers."[2] These derivatives, including the credit default swap, are a few of the many causes of the financial crisis of 2008 and the subsequent 2008–2012 global recession.[3] this was a veto proof bill that he signed, he could have vetoed it on principle but it would have done no good, the veto would have been overridden. Credit default swaps , in my Opinion was the reason for the collapse of , financial and banks, more regressives voted for this then democrats. Regressives want to push the blame over to Fanny and Freddy so they can blame the democrats, Bush did want it looked at but his own party wouldn't give him a bill that would help, in fact he said the bills he looked at would make it worse, Before that he had a school chum, that had the same IQ as Bush did, Bush had given him a government job , he asked him to go over and take a close look at fanny and freddy , his buddy did that and came back and said everything was fine, nothing to worry about. But this isn't the story you get from the right , that knows no difference between a lie and the truth. Like I said without lies and distortions the regressive party wouldn't even exist .

 

[Vern]

Actually what you did was put your partisan spin on the report that doesn't say what you are telling us. The bullets were put in the gun long time ago well before Bush and the trigger was pulled with the additional loans. It was a matter of time before the bubble burst, a bubble created mostly by Democrats to provide affordable housing to people who normally wouldn't qualify. it was the Democrats that benefited from the crisis and are trying to do that now blaming Bush. We know your game, Vern and it is getting old

Oh Con, you do make me laugh. In bizarro conservative world posting facts is partisan spin. And then you post the even more silly empty factless rhetoric of "bullets already in the gun" (or as you would say "partisan spin"). I can add that to the ever growing list of silly empty factless rhetoric conservatives resort to in response to the facts that prove the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 and it was because of Bush's policies and regulation. Here's a list of silly empty factless rhetoric you can post if you tire of posting "bullets already in the gun".

"the train left the station"
"set the stage"
"laid the ground work"
"got the ball rolling"
"two to tango"
"ship left the harbor"
"cat out of the bag"

Now as you continue to flail at the facts with silly empty factless rhetoric, lets look at Fannie Mae's mortgage portfolio from their 2012 annual report. Yep even with higher standards Fannie Mae's portfolio fell off a cliff in 2005.

View attachment 67164183

 

[Conservative]

Oh Con, you do make me laugh. In bizarro conservative world posting facts is partisan spin. And then you post the even more silly empty factless rhetoric of "bullets already in the gun". I can add that to the ever growing list of silly empty factless rhetoric conservatives resort to in response to the facts that prove the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 and it was because of Bush's policies and regulation. Here's a list of silly empty factless rhetoric you can post if you tire of posting "bullets already in the gun".

"the train left the station"
"set the stage"
"laid the ground work"
"got the ball rolling"
"two to tango"
"ship left the harbor"
"cat out of the bag"

Now as you continue to flail at the facts with silly empty factless rhetoric, lets look at Fannie Mae's mortgage portfolio from their 2012 annual report. Yep even with higher standards Fannie Mae's portfolio fell off a cliff in 2005.

View attachment 67164183

More rhetoric, Vern, that doesn't address the point made or all the documentation that shows a lot of players involved in creating the crisis but you want to focus solely on Bush. That makes you nothing more than a typical leftwing partisan. In addition I am still waiting for the economic policies i the stimulus that was signed on February 17, 2009 that brought us out of the recession which is what you claimed, a Recession that ended in June 2009

 

[Vern]

More rhetoric, Vern, that doesn't address the point made or all the documentation that shows a lot of players involved in creating the crisis but you want to focus solely on Bush. That makes you nothing more than a typical leftwing partisan. In addition I am still waiting for the economic policies i the stimulus that was signed on February 17, 2009 that brought us out of the recession which is what you claimed, a Recession that ended in June 2009

I just don't think you shouldn't be able to post at this forum when you call the facts I post rhetoric and the rhetoric you post "documentation". And then you end with your typical deflection. And not only is it typical, its also dishonest. I've discussed your current deflection with you numerous times. You simply ignore those facts too.

Read this slowly, the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 because of Bush's policies and regulation. There is simply no "documentation" to explain away the flood of unqualified buyers driving up home prices in 2004 other than Bush's policies and regulation.

 

[Conservative]

I just don't think you shouldn't be able to post at this forum when you call the facts I post rhetoric and the rhetoric you post "documentation". And then you end with your typical deflection. And not only is it typical, its also dishonest. I've discussed your current deflection with you numerous times. You simply ignore those facts too.

Read this slowly, the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 because of Bush's policies and regulation. There is simply no "documentation" to explain away the flood of unqualified buyers driving up home prices in 2004 other than Bush's policies and regulation.

No, Vern the bubble started long before 2004 but your partisan liberal beliefs don't allow you to face reality which is why most people have stopped posting to you. Keep it up, Vern but one of these days you are going to develop some pride and stop letting the left use you for their own personal gain.

 

[Vern]

No, Vern the bubble started long before 2004 but your partisan liberal beliefs don't allow you to face reality which is why most people have stopped posting to you. Keep it up, Vern but one of these days you are going to develop some pride and stop letting the left use you for their own personal gain.

more rhetoric. no facts. that's all you got Con. Anyhoo, you've ignored the "documentation" that Bush told you the Bush Mortgage Bubble started 2004. You've ignored the "documentation" of home prices shooting up in 2004 in the 4 bubble states. You've ignored the "documentation" that shows Fannie Mae's quality falling off a cliff in 2005. Here's some more documentation for you to ignore. Early Payment Defaults for subprime loans were stable from 2000 to 2004. guess what, they started shooting up in 2005.



"This surge in early payment defaults is evident in our data. On average, 1.5 percent of subprime loans in the 2000-2004 vintages were in default after 12 months, and the situation was just a bit worse for the 2005 vintage (Figure 2). However, 2 percent of outstanding loans in the 2007 vintage were in default within six months of origination, and 8 percent were in default after 12 months.”

FRB: Finance and Economics Discussion Series: Screen Reader Version - 200899

 

[Conservative]

more rhetoric. no facts. that's all you got Con. Anyhoo, you've ignored the "documentation" that Bush told you the Bush Mortgage Bubble started 2004. You've ignored the "documentation" of home prices shooting up in 2004 in the 4 bubble states. You've ignored the "documentation" that shows Fannie Mae's quality falling off a cliff in 2005. Here's some more documentation for you to ignore. Early Payment Defaults for subprime loans were stable from 2000 to 2004. guess what, they started shooting up in 2005.

View attachment 67196735

"This surge in early payment defaults is evident in our data. On average, 1.5 percent of subprime loans in the 2000-2004 vintages were in default after 12 months, and the situation was just a bit worse for the 2005 vintage (Figure 2). However, 2 percent of outstanding loans in the 2007 vintage were in default within six months of origination, and 8 percent were in default after 12 months.”

FRB: Finance and Economics Discussion Series: Screen Reader Version - 200899

you are a waste of time, Vern, good luck in the liberal life you live, you are going to need it. If you think the number of loans that defaulted from 2004-07 brought down the financial crisis you are more naïve and gullible than any one individual I have ever met.

 

[jbander]

you are a waste of time, Vern, good luck in the liberal life you live, you are going to need it. If you think the number of loans that defaulted from 2004-07 brought down the financial crisis you are more naïve and gullible than any one individual I have ever met.

Conservative gets buried in facts and is backed into a corner defenseless and his come back is attacking you personally because you won the argument.

 

[Fenton]

no magic involved Fenton. I've explained it numerous times to you. Bush's policies and regulation let a flood of unqualified buyers into the housing market driving up prices in 2004. Its why Bush told you the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004.

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”

the data backs that up that timeframe (data, not rhetoric). Look at home prices in the 4 bubble states

View attachment 67196725

Bush turned a nice housing boom (that he credited his tax cuts for) into a bubble that destroyed the economy.

You cannot explain what you don't understand VERN.

 

[Fenton]

This is the bill -------It clarified the law so that most over-the-counter (OTC) derivatives transactions between "sophisticated parties" would not be regulated as "futures" under the Commodity Exchange Act of 1936 (CEA) or as "securities" under the federal securities laws. Instead, the major dealers of those products (banks and securities firms) would continue to have their dealings in OTC derivatives supervised by their federal regulators under general "safety and soundness" standards. The Commodity Futures Trading Commission's (CFTC) desire to have "Functional regulation" of the market was also rejected. Instead, the CFTC would continue to do "entity-based supervision of OTC derivatives dealers."[2] These derivatives, including the credit default swap, are a few of the many causes of the financial crisis of 2008 and the subsequent 2008–2012 global recession.[3] this was a veto proof bill that he signed, he could have vetoed it on principle but it would have done no good, the veto would have been overridden. Credit default swaps , in my Opinion was the reason for the collapse of , financial and banks, more regressives voted for this then democrats. Regressives want to push the blame over to Fanny and Freddy so they can blame the democrats, Bush did want it looked at but his own party wouldn't give him a bill that would help, in fact he said the bills he looked at would make it worse, Before that he had a school chum, that had the same IQ as Bush did, Bush had given him a government job , he asked him to go over and take a close look at fanny and freddy , his buddy did that and came back and said everything was fine, nothing to worry about. But this isn't the story you get from the right , that knows no difference between a lie and the truth. Like I said without lies and distortions the regressive party wouldn't even exist .

You have no idea what youre talking about....as usual and as usual your making **** up and trying to pass it off as a informed analysis.

Remember, your not talking to your own kind, ( poorly informed Liberals ), your challenging Conservatives.

There were 2 Bills, no 3 that dealt with reigning in the two most influential and corrupt Financial entities involved in the 2008 Subprime crisis

There was HR1461, a bipartisan bill that was spoiled by the likes of Barney Frank when he added a " affordable housing " slush fund to it. HR1461 would have also put off Bush's calls for a third party regulator for over a year.

Then there was SB190, that was passed along party lines in the Senate banking committee ( NO Democrats voted for it ).

It would have been just another rule 22 filibuster ( the Democrats were using that rule like it was going out of style ) so it never made it to the floor for a vote

SB190 was run back through the Senate Banking Commitee as SB1100 in 2007 but, the Democrats took over the Senate by then and it got ZERO votes.

A year later Fannie and Freddie were declared insolvent holding over 5 Trillion dollars in debt.

Fannie Mae was fined 400 Million dollars in 2006 for corrupt accounting thanks to Bush funding their regulator ( OFHEO ) so they could do a thorough investigation

NO ONE, except the Democrats thoughy the GSEs were " fine "

 

[Lord of Planar]

no magic involved Fenton. I've explained it numerous times to you. Bush's policies and regulation let a flood of unqualified buyers into the housing market driving up prices in 2004. Its why Bush told you the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004.

It was the democrats who caused it:

 

[Fenton]

It was the democrats who caused it:

His response ?

" The Presidents working group....."

 

[Conservative]

His response ?

" The Presidents working group....."

His answer will be silence for a while then he will come back with the same talking points ignoring anything that is presented that refutes his points. That is what total partisans do especially those who don't understand our economy at all or how policy plays a role in results you need to look no further than Vern and his posts.

 

[Conservative]

Conservative gets buried in facts and is backed into a corner defenseless and his come back is attacking you personally because you won the argument.

buried in the facts? you call opinions as facts? backed in the corner is what I do with people like you. Can you explain the disconnect between the "wonderful" jobs report everyone is giving Obama credit for and the stock market performance now which is under 16,000? You want to cheerlead Obama when the news is good and ignore it when the news is bad like it is with the declining stock market, the massive debt, high U-6 rate, basically stagnant GDP growth compared to previous recession recoveries. Seems the problem is with liberalism not with me

 

[Vern]

It was the democrats who caused it:

Lord, you posted a youtube video with no explanation. Please explain what in the video changes the documented timeframe of the Bush Mortgage Bubble or Bush's responsibility. As this is a debate forum asking you to explain 'theory' is perfectly acceptable but don't worry, no one expects conservatives to actually do that. I've asked Fenton numerous times to explain his theory. he cant either. That's why he's reduced to whining about me posting the President's Working Group on Financial Markets. he thinks his youtube videos trumps Bush's own working group. Sadly as conservative, he would believe something scribbled on a napkin if it told him what he wanted to believe.

His response ?

" The Presidents working group....."

Seriously, he cant post one thing to dispute the PWG. Sadly he has to dishonestly ignore the data I've posted that proves what Bush's PWG said. Speaking of dishonesty......

You cannot explain what you don't understand VERN.

Actually fenton, I understand perfectly. It's why I'm able to explain the causes of the Bush Mortgage Bubble and its affect on the financial system resulting in a world wide recession. You however have yet to explain how anything you've posted let banks stop checking people's income in 2004 and why bush's regulators let them. And fenton, I can even explain why you cant grasp the simple and proven facts I've posted. As a conservative, you've been trained to only believe what you wish was true. A more common version of Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Now fenton, explain how anything you've posted disputes the documented timeframe of the Bush Mortgage Bubble and how anything you've posted prevented Bush's regulators from doing their jobs.

 

[Conservative]

Lord, you posted a youtube video with no explanation. Please explain what in the video changes the documented timeframe of the Bush Mortgage Bubble or Bush's responsibility. As this is a debate forum asking you to explain 'theory' is perfectly acceptable but don't worry, no one expects conservatives to actually do that. I've asked Fenton numerous times to explain his theory. he cant either. That's why he's reduced to whining about me posting the President's Working Group on Financial Markets. he thinks his youtube videos trumps Bush's own working group. Sadly as conservative, he would believe something scribbled on a napkin if it told him what he wanted to believe.



Seriously, he cant post one thing to dispute the PWG. Sadly he has to dishonestly ignore the data I've posted that proves what Bush's PWG said. Speaking of dishonesty......


Actually fenton, I understand perfectly. It's why I'm able to explain the causes of the Bush Mortgage Bubble and its affect on the financial system resulting in a world wide recession. You however have yet to explain how anything you've posted let banks stop checking people's income in 2004 and why bush's regulators let them. And fenton, I can even explain why you cant grasp the simple and proven facts I've posted. As a conservative, you've been trained to only believe what you wish was true. A more common version of Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Now fenton, explain how anything you've posted disputes the documented timeframe of the Bush Mortgage Bubble and how anything you've posted prevented Bush's regulators from doing their jobs.

How long are you going to promote the distortions and out of context blame game you want to give to Bush ignoring anything that proves you wrong. A bubble was created long before Bush took office when the sub prime loans were created. Democrats benefited by getting homes for those who normally wouldn't qualify yet you want to blame only Republicans for the bubble. You are going to perpetuate this fraud on your part knowing quite well you are wrong and won't admit it nor will you change anyone else's mind here nor will we change yours. Best to move on with some other partisan biased issue since you won't discuss the disconnect between the "wonderful" jobs report and the declining stock market down over 300 points today under 16,000

 

[Vern]

How long are you going to promote the distortions and out of context blame game you want to give to Bush ignoring anything that proves you wrong.

Oh Con, if you could explain how the facts I post are "distortions" or "out of context" you wouldn't have to whine at me and about me. But you cant so whine at me and about me. The facts I've posted prove Bush put the bullets in the gun in 2004 and started shooting (to put it in terms that you can understand). Here's a quick review of the facts I've posted to you the past couple of days

Bush's Working Group told you the problems started late 2004
Fannie Mae's mortgage portfolio shows the problem starting 2005
Early Payment Defaults for subprime loans were stable 2000-2004 and started shooting up in 2005
Home prices in the 4 bubble states show the bubble starting 2004

If you are going to ignore the facts I've posted and continue to whine at me and about me, please stop replying to my posts.




A bubble was created long before Bush took office when the sub prime loans were created. Democrats benefited by getting homes for those who normally wouldn't qualify yet you want to blame only Republicans for the bubble. You are going to perpetuate this fraud on your part knowing quite well you are wrong and won't admit it nor will you change anyone else's mind here nor will we change yours. Best to move on with some other partisan biased issue since you won't discuss the disconnect between the "wonderful" jobs report and the declining stock market down over 300 points today under 16,000 [/QUOTE]

 

[Conservative]

Oh Con, if you could explain how the facts I post are "distortions" or "out of context" you wouldn't have to whine at me and about me. But you cant so whine at me and about me. The facts I've posted prove Bush put the bullets in the gun in 2004 and started shooting (to put it in terms that you can understand). Here's a quick review of the facts I've posted to you the past couple of days

Bush's Working Group told you the problems started late 2004
Fannie Mae's mortgage portfolio shows the problem starting 2005
Early Payment Defaults for subprime loans were stable 2000-2004 and started shooting up in 2005
Home prices in the 4 bubble states show the bubble starting 2004

If you are going to ignore the facts I've posted and continue to whine at me and about me, please stop replying to my posts.




A bubble was created long before Bush took office when the sub prime loans were created. Democrats benefited by getting homes for those who normally wouldn't qualify yet you want to blame only Republicans for the bubble. You are going to perpetuate this fraud on your part knowing quite well you are wrong and won't admit it nor will you change anyone else's mind here nor will we change yours. Best to move on with some other partisan biased issue since you won't discuss the disconnect between the "wonderful" jobs report and the declining stock market down over 300 points today under 16,000

[/QUOTE]

Bush's working group said exactly what and use the right words? Triggered means what to you? For some reason you believe that 3.5 million home loans that defaulted brought down the 15 trillion dollar US economy. That is total ignorance

 

[Vern]

Bush's working group said exactly what and use the right words? Triggered means what to you? For some reason you believe that 3.5 million home loans that defaulted brought down the 15 trillion dollar US economy. That is total ignorance

mmmmm, you tried the empty factless rhetoric thing, you tried the whining thing, you tried the dishonest deflecting thing. Now you're doing empty factless rhetoric in the form of a question thing. sorry Con "wah wah, X couldn't cause Y, it just cant be true" is just more whining. And Con, I've posted Bush's Working Group hundreds of times. I posted it to you in this thread. so your request only proves my point that you ignore the facts I post. And now for the funny part of every discussion where I ask a conservative to back up their post.

Con, please elaborate, clarify, back up, explain how X couldn't cause Y.

That'll never stop being funny. Anyhoo, while we wait forever for you to do that, here's more data for you to ignore.

“Subprime loans originated in late 2005 and 2006 are playing a major role in recent defaults and foreclosures"

http://www.gao.gov/assets/100/95215.pdf

And don't forget, Fannie mae's mortgage portfolio data that backs that up. Bush's PWG backs that up. The EPD data for subprime backs that up. and the home price data in the 4 bubble states back that up. Now why do you think ""wah wah, X couldn't cause Y, it just can be true" in any way disputes what I've posted?

 

[Fenton]

mmmmm, you tried the empty factless rhetoric thing, you tried the whining thing, you tried the dishonest deflecting thing. Now you're doing empty factless rhetoric in the form of a question thing. sorry Con "wah wah, X couldn't cause Y, it just cant be true" is just more whining. And Con, I've posted Bush's Working Group hundreds of times. I posted it to you in this thread. so your request only proves my point that you ignore the facts I post. And now for the funny part of every discussion where I ask a conservative to back up their post.

Con, please elaborate, clarify, back up, explain how X couldn't cause Y.

That'll never stop being funny. Anyhoo, while we wait forever for you to do that, here's more data for you to ignore.

“Subprime loans originated in late 2005 and 2006 are playing a major role in recent defaults and foreclosures"

http://www.gao.gov/assets/100/95215.pdf

And don't forget, Fannie mae's mortgage portfolio data that backs that up. Bush's PWG backs that up. The EPD data for subprime backs that up. and the home price data in the 4 bubble states back that up. Now why do you think ""wah wah, X couldn't cause Y, it just can be true" in any way disputes what I've posted?

Fannie Maes mortgage portfolio plus or minus the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars in worthless " No Doc Loan " debt they ommited from their 2004-2008 SEC quarterly filings ??


Fannie Mae also ommited over a hundred Billion dollars in worthless CountryWide debt too.

 

[jbander]

buried in the facts? you call opinions as facts? backed in the corner is what I do with people like you. Can you explain the disconnect between the "wonderful" jobs report everyone is giving Obama credit for and the stock market performance now which is under 16,000? You want to cheerlead Obama when the news is good and ignore it when the news is bad like it is with the declining stock market, the massive debt, high U-6 rate, basically stagnant GDP growth compared to previous recession recoveries. Seems the problem is with liberalism not with me

There is only one other time that we can compare the Bush/regressive almost total destruction of our economy and country, The depression and we are recovering faster then the depression. When You regressives destroy economies , you destroy massively. Obama's Dow up 125% in 7 years, The move upward started literally the day he came into office. , it's a old market it will correct , The massive debt totally belonged to you regressives, all of it accrued during regressive presidencies all the time having the veto. till Obama came into office, after your policies and president destroyed the economy. You offer nothing but the destruction of this country and ugliness that hasn't been seen in my lifetime , from your bigotry to to the long list of things you blame/hate for our problems. The ultimate is your party makes everyone except the top few poorer and then you attack the poor for being poor. Your comment says nothing other then the twisted logic that goes along with your sick party.