- Joined
- Mar 3, 2010
- Messages
- 60,458
- Reaction score
- 12,357
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
No one's stopping you from leaving.
No one is stopping you from respecting the consent of people either.
No one's stopping you from leaving.
No one is stopping you from respecting the consent of people either.
Good thing I do, then.
So all I must do to violate the natural rights of people and be righteous in my cause is form an organization called the government. To many of you if I were to do this I can draft people to my cause even if that might mean their death, ignore their lack of consent and take from them whatever I desire and declare I need it to provide them services that they never asked to receive.
The institutions of culture and systems of economic production we depend on to enjoy our quality of life cannot exist under the perpetual threat or reality of armed force. Every person who partakes of them has a responsibility to themselves, their family, their neighbors, their ancestors, and their descendants to defend the body politic and its possessions, both what is private and what is held in common.
A nation isn't a confederacy or a free association where people can scatter to the four winds at the first sign of trouble, it comes with as many obligations as it does with commodities.
Just allowing our citizens not to fight in a war encourages aggressive action against our country.
Your fore-bearers lived and died settling and defending this country so that their descendants could enjoy a quality of life never before imagined or realized in the history of our race, so you can bet that you have a perpetual responsibility to be equal to their sacrifice if the occasion demands it.
I have no obligation towards those that came before me and decided to fight for causes they found agreeable nor do I have an obligation towards the country as a whole that i never offered my consent to be part of. Just as the founders of this country swore no alliance to the king of england, I swore no alliance to the rulers of this land. Just as the founders had no obligation to fight for the causes of those that came before them, I have no obligation to fight for the causes of those that came before me. Just as those that came before me had the right to decide on their own free will what causes they were wiling to fight for, I have the right to decide on causes I am willing to fight for. Just because I was born under the rule of a body of people that wish to maintain their rule does not mean I'm obligated to assist them in their cause and grant them their desires. Just because I was born in a community of men, women and children in a certain land does not mean that I'm obligated to protect them or their property and die for their causes.
nor do I have an obligation towards the country as a whole that i never offered my consent to be part of.
Hell, I think some mandatory form of military/public/government service for a year would be great for the UK, and probably every other nation.
Is that why you support the draft? You know, the very thing we are talking about that ignores the consent of the people to serve.
those of us who work half the year to pay taxes have already done far more than that
I am thinking about this, I am not sure. You contend your working and paying taxes is far more of a contribution than doing your time in the service?
Then there is no reason for those who do to allow you to live among them, at least not as a citizen. Since you can't be trusted to contribute in hard times, your rights, happiness, and safety are a tertiary concern to the body politic. Attention and resources must be reserved to those who are prepared to earn standing.
The semantics of 'consent' and social contracts are unmeaningful. Participation in our economy and culture entails participation in the community's defense. While exemptions can and should be made for those unable to contribute, able people who refuse to serve as contributors must serve as examples.
Being a US citizen comes with duties. You have to serve on a jury if called upon, don't you?
Do you have a right to force people to fight for you? Yes or no? Why would it be any different for the government?
When does your sentence to be exiled here in the USA end?I never asked to be a citizen or to be under the rule and command of others. It was simply thrust upon me at the demand of those that came before me at my birth. I had no choice in the matter and I have no reason today to feel threatened by the prospect of the abandonment of such forces upon me. QUOTE]
You work 30-40 years and half of what you make goes to the governments? that sounds like involuntary servitude to me
there is no legitimate argument for a draft. If people are actually invading my homeland I will be out there trying to kill them even though I am 54 now. invading Vietnam? we should have executed a bunch of politicians for that abomination
When does your sentence to be exiled here in the USA end?
I never asked to be a citizen or to be under the rule and command of others. It was simply thrust upon me at the demand of those that came before me at my birth. I had no choice in the matter and I have no reason today to feel threatened by the prospect of the abandonment of such forces upon me. Perhaps if those that thrust their rule on me convinced me of their stead I would feel a bit of loss at the idea of abandonment, but they have nothing of the sort, and thus I can feel no loss because of their decision to leave me out of it if that is indeed what they desire to do.
If the people desire to fight for the causes of a government they never consented to then they have my permission and my best wishes in reaching their goals. The least they can do in kind is offer me permission to not fight for causes that I do not believe in and have no desire to take part in. If they wish to indeed be a society that could possibly convince me to consider them worthy of my consideration and my protection then they must learn to respect my wishes as much as they respect theirs. Otherwise, I will refuse to join them and fight along side them as I will consider them nothing but brutes not deserving of victory.
No, participation in an economy means nothing to the communities defense. It merely means that I'm doing what I feel is my own self interest to reach the goals that I feel worthy of my time, efforts and property.
They can force me to show up,
but they can not force me to consider it worthy of my time or efforts.
If they put me on a jury on a case where they are trying to imprison someone for enjoying drugs they are going to be awarded with nothing but rejection of their case.
Will robbing me of my property reward you with merit for your case against me?
Exactly.
Sounds like you'd make a bad soldier.