Conservative introspection?

[NuffSaid]

Conservatives know there's no such thing as "free" healthcare.

Oh, so all of those "conservative" Congresscritters are paying for their own healthcare??

 

[highroller]

Conservatives know there's no such thing as "free" healthcare.

So does everyone else

 

[highroller]

Oh, so all of those "conservative" Congresscritters are paying for their own healthcare??

They “earned it” like all conservatives. The only people who don’t earn things are non-conservatives.

 

[ataraxia]

Conservatives already won on Obamacare.

OK. Just don't tell these conservatives that.

 

[dmpi]

You know that old saying: "It's not that you've win or lose, rather it's how you play the game". In Obamacare they've managed to get the uninsured to now have insurance but the cost of that is just piled on to the taxpayers. It's just like with the homeless, if you've build then all apartments then technical they're no longer 'homeless'. Of course they still unproductive and have no job and taxpayers are paying for them to be wards of the state. The REAL scorecard on all these things should be how much the taxpayers have to put out.

 

[eman623]

Oh, so all of those "conservative" Congresscritters are paying for their own healthcare??

Someone is. It is not free. That doesn't exist

 

[Opossum]

Perusing this new Chait article on "Why Republicans Won’t Say Anything About Obamacare" and I'm struck by his concluding points:



We can all laugh about Reagan's looney tunes Medicare predictions, but they're arguably a lot less deranged than the standard GOP fare about the Affordable Care Act was. And that wasn't just some issue, it was the animating force in the GOP--well, other than giving rich people tax cuts--for a decade. It was the thing that brought cohesion to the party before it decided to just become a Cult of Trump--and even he's just continued to push the old party line about repeal (even into the current campaign, where it feels positively anachronistic and bizarre). Anti-ACA fervor was core to the entire identity of the contemporary right.

Is there a point where someone (anyone?) in the conservative movement does some basic introspection on that hysterical decade? Considers some of the basic questions ("Hey, was I wrong about that stuff? Did I overreact a little bit on that?")? Is Year 14 a little early for that sort of reflection, maybe next year?

Well, premiums jumped up quite a bit under Obamacare. So far as death panels, those are things that happen when you keep going down this route. We aren't where England is now, where they have condemned kids to die or Canada telling people they should kill themselves.

 

[Visbek]

Well, premiums jumped up quite a bit under Obamacare.

Actually, the increases in premiums slowed after the ACA was passed. Millions receive subsidies on ACA plans now. Tens of millions qualified for Medicaid, thus getting coverage they didn't have before.

Oh, and remember back in the day, when insurers could refuse to cover pre-existing conditions? Yup, that's gone. Thanks, Obama!

So far as death panels, those are things that happen when you keep going down this route.

Uh, hello? The prediction wasn't that "maybe perhaps someday there will be death panels!!!" It's been 14 years. There were no such panels then, and no such panels now. It was a baseless and hysterical attack on the ACA.

We aren't where England is now, where they have condemned kids to die or Canada telling people they should kill themselves.

In many respects, the US is actually worse off than the UK or Canada -- because there are still 26 million Americans, or 8% of the population, without health insurance, and thus can't afford care.

The US is also basically the only country in the world where medical issues can result in bankruptcy. Up to 60% of US bankruptcies involve medical issues, e.g. borrowing against your home to pay for medical costs, or lost a job because of illness, or owed more than $1,000 in medical bills at the time of bankruptcy. Seriously, think about that for a moment -- almost nowhere else in the world are people declaring bankruptcy because of their medical bills.

The US also spends twice as much per capita on health care than comparable nations -- with little to show for it. Infant mortality is higher; life expectancy is shorter; wait lists for anything other than an MRI are comparable... The list goes on.

 

[ataraxia]

"Conservative introspection"- haha. An oxymoron if I ever heard one.

 

[Greenbeard]

The REAL scorecard on all these things should be how much the taxpayers have to put out.

The answer to that has consistently been “less than predicted/promised,” so on that part of the scorecard the ACA has done quite well.

 

[Greenbeard]

Well, premiums jumped up quite a bit under Obamacare. So far as death panels, those are things that happen when you keep going down this route. We aren't where England is now, where they have condemned kids to die or Canada telling people they should kill themselves.

Premium growth in general has been quite modest in the ACA era (at no or near all-time lows in some years), and certainly lower than in the years before it. And that’s because overall health care cost growth has been historically low.

Anyway, the effort here to hold onto the death panels hysteria here is concerning. It’s time to let it go.

 

[VanceMack]

There were three main problems with Obamacare.
1-It was a 100% disaster targeting a 13% solution
2-The pre-existing condition mandate was just stupid beyond words.
3-The use of federal force on citizens to comply.

 

[Greenbeard]

There were three main problems with Obamacare.
1-It was a 100% disaster targeting a 13% solution
2-The pre-existing condition mandate was just stupid beyond words.
3-The use of federal force on citizens to comply.

Exactly the lack of right wing introspection I feared. “100% disaster.” These tired talking points were outdated ten years ago, yet here they are confidently asserted again as if they had any semblance of a connection to reality.

The right has learned nothing and apparently lives in an alternate reality where they were right, the country is destroyed, and Obama put grandma (oh, and Palin’s kid) to death a decade ago.

 

[Buckeyes85]

I just think it's inefficient and the free market does a better job. we never really had a free market so I can't prove that. I think costs would be much lower and we could have some safety net for the bottom

That the government is not known for being efficient in much of anything is a given. But according to most figures I've seen, the ACA cut in half the number of people who were uninsured.
To those lacking any coverage of any kind, the fact that the private sector may be more efficient at providing services, at potentially lower cost, to those who do have coverage is not much of a consolation.

 

[US&THEM]

It is right. You don't even understand the reason why Hobby Lobby sought and got an exemption or why conservatives would care.


Right. And before that there was a penalty if a state did not opt in.

Again, I'm not sure you understand why that was a win for states-rights conservatives.


Fair enough.


And don't forget the most egregious overreach of all. The mandate and penaltax which Trump got rid of. That was the biggest win.

Now the ACA is just another unfunded entitlement. Throw it on the pile with the others.

We borrow and spend about $100-200 billion a year that we don't have to insure people who were thrown off their insurance - turns out they couldn't keep their doctors after all.

Lie of the Year: 'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it'

It was a catchy political pitch and a chance to calm nerves about his dramatic and complicated plan to bring historic ch

www.politifact.com

Introspect on that my friend.

Lie of the year because it was true because the health insurers were duping their customers, the customers believed they had coverage and did not have what they all assumed they bought. Preventive care etc. the plans that were trashed were because they were actually trash ie not covered.
Hobby Lobby is such bs too, their religious beliefs doesn’t stop them from dealing with China and the child labor laws etc. hypocrites

 

[Buckeyes85]

You know that old saying: "It's not that you've win or lose, rather it's how you play the game". In Obamacare they've managed to get the uninsured to now have insurance but the cost of that is just piled on to the taxpayers. It's just like with the homeless, if you've build then all apartments then technical they're no longer 'homeless'. Of course they still unproductive and have no job and taxpayers are paying for them to be wards of the state. The REAL scorecard on all these things should be how much the taxpayers have to put out.

Yea, the good old "I got mine, you get yours" approach of the so called compassionate conservatives, right?

 

[Simpletruther]

That the government is not known for being efficient in much of anything is a given. But according to most figures I've seen, the ACA cut in half the number of people who were uninsured.
To those lacking any coverage of any kind, the fact that the private sector may be more efficient at providing services, at potentially lower cost, to those who do have coverage is not much of a consolation.

The extra savings can fund a better safety net.

 

[VanceMack]

Exactly the lack of right wing introspection I feared. “100% disaster.” These tired talking points were outdated ten years ago, yet here they are confidently asserted again as if they had any semblance of a connection to reality.

The right has learned nothing and apparently lives in an alternate reality where they were right, the country is destroyed, and Obama put grandma (oh, and Palin’s kid) to death a decade ago.

Not talking points...facts. Obamacare was built to fail. The ultimate goal of the left was to use the failure and expense of Obamacare as a springboard to socialized medicine. The fact is that 87% of the country had insurance and most of them were happy with it. Another 6% chose not to carry insurance...the same people that dropped it as soon as the mandate was done away with. And 7% couldnt afford insurance. Deductibles are so high for some that they cant use the insurance they were forced to pay for. And the idiocy of forcing coverage of preexisting conditions just made everything worse.

But hey...if you are a crippled dependent leftist I'm sure you loved it.

 

[Greenbeard]

Not talking points...facts. Obamacare was built to fail. The ultimate goal of the left was to use the failure and expense of Obamacare as a springboard to socialized medicine.

Imagine believing this in 2024. It worked, its popular, and it's not going anywhere. And yet the rightwing mind still can't grasp these basic facts, continuing to believe 15-year-old propaganda that didn't make sense then and plainly doesn't now.

The right's inability to reflect on the last 15 years (indeed, the apparent conviction that they didn't happen at all!) is fascinating.

 

[VanceMack]

Imagine believing this in 2024. It worked, its popular, and it's not going anywhere. And yet the rightwing mind still can't grasp these basic facts, continuing to believe 15-year-old propaganda that didn't make sense then and plainly doesn't now.

The right's inability to reflect on the last 15 years (indeed, the apparent conviction that they didn't happen at all!) is fascinating.

Pardon me if I dont trust your selective polling...and we just did this a few weeks ago where there were several links posted that showed the premium increases that are still climbing.

Like I said...I'm sure the crippled dependent leftists love it.

 

[dmpi]

The answer to that has consistently been “less than predicted/promised,” so on that part of the scorecard the ACA has done quite well.

Oh right... trillion dollar deficits and goverment works perfectly. Money is fungible so everything looks like a winner except the bottom line.

 

[Simpletruther]

Imagine believing this in 2024. It worked, its popular, and it's not going anywhere. And yet the rightwing mind still can't grasp these basic facts, continuing to believe 15-year-old propaganda that didn't make sense then and plainly doesn't now.

The right's inability to reflect on the last 15 years (indeed, the apparent conviction that they didn't happen at all!) is fascinating.

A whole bunch of people getting giveaways and they like it. Film at 11

 

[Nickyjo]

Not talking points...facts. Obamacare was built to fail. The ultimate goal of the left was to use the failure and expense of Obamacare as a springboard to socialized medicine. The fact is that 87% of the country had insurance and most of them were happy with it. Another 6% chose not to carry insurance...the same people that dropped it as soon as the mandate was done away with. And 7% couldnt afford insurance. Deductibles are so high for some that they cant use the insurance they were forced to pay for. And the idiocy of forcing coverage of preexisting conditions just made everything worse.

But hey...if you are a crippled dependent leftist I'm sure you loved it.

I plead guilty. When I lost my job, I was told that my chronic disease made me uninsurable. I found a government program with limited slots and my former employer paid for it. I now repent in Medicare. And the interstate, the post office, government built dams that send my town water.

What part of the government do you depend on, VenceMack?

Best I heard about the opposition to the ACA was from one conservative analyst, that it might prove to be another example of government doing good successfully, anathema to the right.

 

[Greenbeard]

Pardon me if I dont trust your selective polling...

Trust whatever you like: polling, election results, enrollment numbers, even Trump tripping over his dick yesterday to insist "I'm not running to terminate the ACA!"

All point in the same direction: the ACA is working and is quite popular. Opposing it is political suicide. It was built to work and, surprise, it is.

 

[eman623]

Lie of the year because it was true because the health insurers were duping their customers, the customers believed they had coverage and did not have what they all assumed they bought. Preventive care etc. the plans that were trashed were because they were actually trash ie not covered.
Hobby Lobby is such bs too, their religious beliefs doesn’t stop them from dealing with China and the child labor laws etc. hypocrites

Well, that was incoherent. It was a lie because it was true because trash because Hobby Lobby because China because labor laws.