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Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s Awes

Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
I have every right that you do including going to a show with my child who might get fussy.
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And they have every right to un-invite you from the establishment for being rude and believing that you're some kind of special exception to the known expectation of behavior.
 
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Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

PoS said:
And everybody else has a right to tell you off if your child gets disruptive.
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They do have that right, but it doesn't mean that people should do it. Especially when the behavior is being addressed, not ignored.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

SmokeAndMirrors said:
And they have every right to un-invite you from the establishment for being rude and believing that you're some kind of special exception to the known expectation of behavior.
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The known expectation of behavior should apply to all, including those adding to a disruption by berating a person trying to deal with a disruption. How is it helpful and not more disruptive to criticize or berate a parent trying to remove their disruptive child from a venue, which was the behavior the OP's actor was talking about. The small disruption of the child was nothing that couldn't have been taken care of with patience and not something anyone did on purpose to disrupt the event. The larger disruption came from others criticizing the mother for actually trying to remove her child from the event.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
The known expectation of behavior should apply to all, including those adding to a disruption by berating a person trying to deal with a disruption. How is it helpful and not more disruptive to criticize or berate a parent trying to remove their disruptive child from a venue, which was the behavior the OP's actor was talking about. The small disruption of the child was nothing that couldn't have been taken care of with patience and not something anyone did on purpose to disrupt the event. The larger disruption came from others criticizing the mother for actually trying to remove her child from the event.
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They're not disrupting your disruption by enforcing the understood code of conduct. Really, get over yourself. Obviously there would be no need to continue trying to get him out if he had quieted down. He was continuously screaming. "More disruptive" my ass.

Young children are carry-able, which is what happened to me if I was being a nuisance in public. She was probably doing that thing I see parents doing all the time now, sitting there passively trying to "reason" with a child who is clearly beyond that point because they lack the spine to actually do their job or respect other people's experience. You pick them up and carry them out.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

Absentglare said:
Well, i may have misunderstood, but i was responding to below:



Even if you don't go out of your way to create disturbances, there are times when other people's children create quite a disturbance, and yet the parents seem to ignore it. While i am not qualified to question the efficacy of the parenting technique, i feel that i am well within my rights to communicate that employing such a technique in public is in poor taste. When a disturbance is caused, and the parent does nothing about it, it's fair for people to complain. The parent is essentially partially responsible for their child's behavior. In this case, the audience was unreasonable, but it does not follow that it is always so.
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Yeah, you took what I said out of context.

Of course, I'm not advocating that we should sit there and let another person's child act a damn fool while the parent does nothing and ignores the little ****.

In this case it is presented as a helpless mother who's trying her best and on top of the kid and the embarrassment of the event, she's got a gaggle of pricks ganging up on and berating her.

It's disgusting.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

SmokeAndMirrors said:
They're not disrupting your disruption by enforcing the understood code of conduct. Really, get over yourself. Obviously there would be no need to continue trying to get him out if he had quieted down. He was continuously screaming. "More disruptive" my ass.

Young children are carry-able, which is what happened to me if I was being a nuisance in public. She was probably doing that thing I see parents doing all the time now, sitting there passively trying to "reason" with a child who is clearly beyond that point because they lack the spine to actually do their job or respect other people's experience. You pick them up and carry them out.
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They are making the disruption bigger. They are making it harder to end the disruption.

And it doesn't work the way you are presenting it. You can hurt a small child who is fighting against you very easily. There are ways to get them to calm down, but it takes patience and calm. And it is less likely to occur with yelling and/or anger being directed at the person trying to do it.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
They are making the disruption bigger. They are making it harder to end the disruption.

And it doesn't work the way you are presenting it. You can hurt a small child who is fighting against you very easily. There are ways to get them to calm down, but it takes patience and calm. And it is less likely to occur with yelling and/or anger being directed at the person trying to do it.
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There is no such thing as disrupting someone else's disruption. Good lord, the entitlement.

Who said anything about yelling? Kids basically bounce. I see perfectly good parents who swing them around like monkeys just for mutual fun. They are not going to be "injured" by picking them up and hauling them out. Parents used to do this with any child being unacceptable in public places, including me. Their limbs are short, and they're not that hard to at least remove. I know you "don't wanna," but you chose to take on that responsibility. It's not our problem.

This whole "sit there and ask nicely for your ballistic child to come to a reasoned adult decision" BS is very recent, and it is the reason that children who are out of hand in public has become such a problem that establishments are starting to ban them. They didn't used to have to do that, because parents had some shame for ruining people's time. Now they have to, because parents refuse to do their jobs, and they're losing customers over it.

It's no one's fault but yours that the reception of parents with young children is increasingly hostile. You're sitting here justifying why you get to ruin other people's day, but they have no right to say anything to you while you do so, and you're surprised that you're not well received by others?

Well, I hope you're enjoying the rise of "no children" establishments and services, because you are part of the reason they're popping up so quickly and making money hand over fist.
 
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Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

SmokeAndMirrors said:
There is no such thing as disrupting someone else's disruption. Good lord, the entitlement.

Who said anything about yelling? Kids basically bounce. I see perfectly good parents who swing them around like monkeys just for mutual fun. They are not going to be "injured" by picking them up and hauling them out. Parents used to do this with any child being unacceptable in public places, including me. Their limbs are short, and they're not that hard to at least remove. I know you "don't wanna," but you chose to take on that responsibility. It's not our problem.

This whole "sit there and ask nicely for your ballistic child to come to a reasoned adult decision" BS is very recent, and it is the reason that children who are out of hand in public has become such a problem that establishments are starting to ban them. They didn't used to have to do that, because parents had some shame for ruining people's time. Now they have to, because parents refuse to do their jobs, and they're losing customers over it.

It's no one's fault but yours that the reception of parents with young children is increasingly hostile. You're sitting here justifying why you get to ruin other people's day, but they have no right to say anything to you while you do so, and you're surprised that you're not well received by others?

Well, I hope you're enjoying the rise of "no children" establishments and services, because you are part of the reason they're popping up so quickly and making money hand over fist.
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Again, it is obvious that you have never dealt with this type of child. I have. I'm telling you that if they are fighting, you can hurt them, especially when it comes to children with autism.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
Again, it is obvious that you have never dealt with this type of child. I have. I'm telling you that if they are fighting, you can hurt them, especially when it comes to children with autism.
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Yes, I have, the first time when I was nothing but an older child myself.

Again, enjoy what you guys are bringing on yourselves.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
Again, it is obvious that you have never dealt with this type of child. I have. I'm telling you that if they are fighting, you can hurt them, especially when it comes to children with autism.
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ETA: If you really can't do something a 12-year-old could do... why the hell did you bring them knowing they might ruin the experience for everyone else?

Get a damn babysitter, or enjoy everyone business's dwindling willingness to let you in at all.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

SmokeAndMirrors said:
ETA: If you really can't do something a 12-year-old could do... why the hell did you bring them knowing they might ruin the experience for everyone else?

Get a damn babysitter, or enjoy everyone business's dwindling willingness to let you in at all.
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Again, doesn't work that way. The point isn't that they don't necessarily have a babysitter, but rather that the child is going to benefit from the experience.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Yes, I have, the first time when I was nothing but an older child myself.

Again, enjoy what you guys are bringing on yourselves.
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Then you didn't have the same experience of others. I'm telling you that there are children, young children, who can be hurt by trying to physically force them to move, especially if they have gotten a certain hold, position on something.

And saying that a young child could do it really doesn't actually prove anything since the child wouldn't consider that they could hurt the child, or at least would be less concerned about it.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
Again, doesn't work that way. The point isn't that they don't necessarily have a babysitter, but rather that the child is going to benefit from the experience.
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Yes it does. Millions of people manage to find babysitters just fine. But you're too special? Oh gee.

I don't see how they're benefiting if they're too busy screaming through it to watch. How do you interpret that as them enjoying themselves? And I don't see why they can't go to a children's theatre. Hell, I was a normal-ish kid and I found that more interesting than regular theatre until I was maybe 8.

Really, this seems like it's all about you, and you wanting to project some kind of point or pretend like you don't have any new responsibilities now. The kid is just a prop for your point.

Which is fine, since a many of places will have no problem escorting you out, and more and more are just not letting people with kids in to begin with. Costs them too much money and too many headaches, now that parents apparently don't think it's their responsibility to deal with their kids anymore.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

From the actor's Facebook post:

No.Instead, I ask you- when did we as theater people, performers and audience members become so concerned with our own experience that we lose compassion for others?
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When a night at the theater started costing hundreds of dollars.

While I wouldn't yell at the woman she is being inconsiderate to others. A theater is simply no place for a child who, for whatever reason, cannot keep quiet.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
Then you didn't have the same experience of others. I'm telling you that there are children, young children, who can be hurt by trying to physically force them to move, especially if they have gotten a certain hold, position on something.

And saying that a young child could do it really doesn't actually prove anything since the child wouldn't consider that they could hurt the child, or at least would be less concerned about it.
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I was an assistant for said child. So, no, not for a young child. That's just silly. Certainly takes 2 hands, but no.

Your last sentence doesn't even make sense. No clue what kind of straw you're trying to grasp at, but I'm sure it's just as nonsense as all your others.

ETA: Ok, I've read it about 5 times and I think I get it.

You're wrong. If anything, I was more concerned than most adults, not really knowing what young kids were made of. I was old enough to have empathy and I was careful about hurting him. So, no. Wrong again. Excuses, excuses.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

SmokeAndMirrors said:
I was an assistant for said child. So, no, not for a young child. That's just silly. Certainly takes 2 hands, but no.

Your last sentence doesn't even make sense. No clue what kind of straw you're trying to grasp at, but I'm sure it's just as nonsense as all your others.

ETA: Ok, I've read it about 5 times and I think I get it.

You're wrong. If anything, I was more concerned than most adults, not really knowing what young kids were made of. I was old enough to have empathy and I was careful about hurting him. So, no. Wrong again. Excuses, excuses.
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Most young children would be less concerned than parents or adults about hurting the child. An adult is stronger than a child, even a 12 year old. Using too much force could hurt the child, that is a simple fact. And, from the information we have, she was trying to remove the child from the venue, to get him calm. The crowd was not helping in agitating both the mother and very likely the child with their comments.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
Most young children would be less concerned than parents or adults about hurting the child. An adult is stronger than a child, even a 12 year old. Using too much force could hurt the child, that is a simple fact. And, from the information we have, she was trying to remove the child from the venue, to get him calm. The crowd was not helping in agitating both the mother and very likely the child with their comments.
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I wasn't "young." "Young child" denotes below 5.

If you can't hoist a toddler, you're making excuses. If a middle schooler can do it, so can you. And if you knew said toddler was very liable to ruin the event for everyone, you shouldn't have taken them, and you deserve it when other people make sure you know that, or just kick you out all together and don't welcome you back.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

SmokeAndMirrors said:
I wasn't "young." "Young child" denotes below 5.

If you can't hoist a toddler, you're making excuses. If a middle schooler can do it, so can you. And if you know said toddler was probably going to ruin the event for everyone, you shouldn't have taken them, and you deserve it when other people make sure you know that, or just kick you out all together and don't welcome you back.
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Lifting a child who is calm is easy, and doesn't take a lot of strength. But effectively "wrestling" a child who is fighting back takes more strength and can cause problems. The child was grabbing the railing and can easily have a lot of strength that people do not give them credit for.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
Lifting a child who is calm is easy, and doesn't take a lot of strength. But effectively "wrestling" a child who is fighting back takes more strength and can cause problems. The child was grabbing the railing and can easily have a lot of strength that people do not give them credit for.
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I told you; I worked with a very autistic boy at that age. If anything, it was me who was likely to get hurt carrying him, not him. Still, I was perfectly capable of doing it.

Stop whining that other people won't tolerate parents not doing their job. It is your responsibility to either deal with it, or not take them to certain places. No one is "rude" for stepping in when you refuse to do your job.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

SmokeAndMirrors said:
I told you; I worked with a very autistic boy at that age. If anything, it was me who was likely to get hurt carrying him, not him. Still, I was perfectly capable of doing it.

Stop whining that other people won't tolerate parents not doing their job. It is your responsibility to either deal with it, or not take them to certain places. No one is "rude" for stepping in when you refuse to do your job.
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I don't think the parent is obligated to manhandle their child in public.

I think this particular mother was trying to help, though i can appreciate some people wished she had tried harder. I would also imagine the outrage only escalated the situation for the poor child.

Still, i do not like being next to someone's crying baby for a 14 hour flight. That sucks, i didn't pay to have someone's child screech in my ears for 14 hours, preventing the sleep i was planning to get. At some point, parents of loud/obnoxious/unruly children place a burden on those around them, and we don't always have a fair way to work it out. There's nothing anyone can do- unless airplanes/theatres get special seating/venues etc. then the price goes up. It's a tangible burden. If you have a problematic child, you might be prone to think "at least you only have 14 hours to endure it, that's nothing." On the other hand, while i do try to suffer in silence as much as i can, there are limits to what i will tolerate, and i'm not afraid to communicate them to those around me. I don't expect to be berated for that communication.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

Absentglare said:
I don't think the parent is obligated to manhandle their child in public.

I think this particular mother was trying to help, though i can appreciate some people wished she had tried harder. I would also imagine the outrage only escalated the situation for the poor child.

Still, i do not like being next to someone's crying baby for a 14 hour flight. That sucks, i didn't pay to have someone's child screech in my ears for 14 hours, preventing the sleep i was planning to get. At some point, parents of loud/obnoxious/unruly children place a burden on those around them, and we don't always have a fair way to work it out. There's nothing anyone can do- unless airplanes/theatres get special seating/venues etc. then the price goes up. It's a tangible burden. If you have a problematic child, you might be prone to think "at least you only have 14 hours to endure it, that's nothing." On the other hand, while i do try to suffer in silence as much as i can, there are limits to what i will tolerate, and i'm not afraid to communicate them to those around me. I don't expect to be berated for that communication.
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No one is harmed by picking up a child, for heaven's sake. This is a routine thing that any decent parent does with any child who is being a nuisance in public and either won't or can't stop. This idea that we should just let them run wild until they burn themselves out is why they behave like that in the first place.

Beyond that, restraining autistic children is sometimes necessary during meltdowns, and is sometimes recommended by psychologists who work with them in certain circumstances. They often wind up hurting themselves or others if not restrained during violent meltdowns. There are people who advocate against this, but they often wind up being seriously injured and sometimes even killed when their child gets big enough, so clearly that shouldn't be tolerated in public.

A couple airlines have begun having childfree flights, or flights with childfree seating. And people line up around the block to buy them, thanks to parents who refuse to control their children. The world will only get less child-friendly as parents continue to not teach their kids the basics of human behavior.

And it is a refusal. This is a very recent problem. It isn't that children can't be controlled. It's just that they refuse to raise them, by justifying it with entitled nonsense like "at least you don't have to deal with it as much as me," as though it's anyone else's problem that they decided to have kids. Don't have them if you have no intent of raising them.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

roguenuke said:
They do have that right, but it doesn't mean that people should do it. Especially when the behavior is being addressed, not ignored.
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Well I cant blame the others for getting upset since they paid money and had their experience ruined by an irresponsible parent. If there is a chance your child will be disruptive then why take the risk? Just keep him at home and let him watch TV then, its not like the theatre is the only place to go for entertainment. And I wonder if an autistic child would even understand what an experience going to the theatre is anyway.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

PoS said:
Well I cant blame the others for getting upset since they paid money and had their experience ruined by an irresponsible parent. If there is a chance your child will be disruptive then why take the risk? Just keep him at home and let him watch TV then, its not like the theatre is the only place to go for entertainment. And I wonder if an autistic child would even understand what an experience going to the theatre is anyway.
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Yes, they can understand. It is still an experience for them.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

PoS said:
Well I cant blame the others for getting upset since they paid money and had their experience ruined by an irresponsible parent. If there is a chance your child will be disruptive then why take the risk? Just keep him at home and let him watch TV then, its not like the theatre is the only place to go for entertainment. And I wonder if an autistic child would even understand what an experience going to the theatre is anyway.
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Woah there, don't be so sure. Autistic children are considerably varied and there is certainly plenty of room for them to appreciate the theatre.

I would not want to rob them of that life experience, but i would surely not want to suffer through their tantrum while trying to enjoy the theatre myself.
 
Re: Broadway Star Has a Message to the Autistic Child Screaming at His Show–And It’s

SmokeAndMirrors said:
I told you; I worked with a very autistic boy at that age. If anything, it was me who was likely to get hurt carrying him, not him. Still, I was perfectly capable of doing it.

Stop whining that other people won't tolerate parents not doing their job. It is your responsibility to either deal with it, or not take them to certain places. No one is "rude" for stepping in when you refuse to do your job.
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Well, that's a vote for children can do no wrong no matter what because they're special.

Which is a notion i will never support. It is entirely irrational.
 
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