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Religion, Judgment, and Political Correctness

nota bene said:
That's a good question.

I'm glad you posted the prayer; it caused me to think and reflect, so thank you. And I wanted to repeat what Risky said earlier: "I also believe that it is a huge mistake to refuse to consider the message of prayers outside of one's faith. Truth doesn't care who tells it."
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That's why I posted it friend. It also made me stop and think and reflect. And I was solidly convinced that we need much much more such confessional prayer as a people and nation, and how much better would we be if we recognized the sin, intentional and unintentional, that we do and asked for forgiveness and strength to do better?

I can appreciate that some of our friends here see the prayer as 'preachy' and therefore unacceptable. But obviously it is in the eye of the beholder as others saw it as a truly confessional prayer and petition to God to help us be better people. I see both points of view, but come down more on the side of Pastor Wright's honorable expression of what was on his heart.
 
Open the eyes and ears of our hearts, Lord.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Again who has the authority to say what is and is not a 'wrong prayer?'
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Apparently, you; since you go on to do just that in the sentences below.

AlbqOwl said:
A prayer is not a prayer if the intention is to be politically correct. A prayer is not really a prayer unless it comes from the heart and is an honest petition or praise of God directed to God even though it is intended to speak for all present.
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So, I guess in your worldview, you get to decide what counts as prayer and everyone else is wrong and doesn't even really have the right to try.


This pastor was invited to give an invocation. Best case scenario is that, by your own admission, he gave a prayer of confession instead. The more likely scenario as everyone but you seems able to discern is that he gave a politically charged sermon, which you have yourself compared to the sermon on the mount, disguised as a prayer.
 
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CrabCake said:
Apparently, you; since you go on to do just that in the sentences below.

So, I guess in your worldview, you get to decide what counts as prayer and everyone else is wrong and doesn't even really have the right to try.

This pastor was invited to give an invocation. Best case scenario is that, by your own admission, he gave a prayer of confession instead. The more likely scenario as everyone but you seems able to discern is that he gave a politically charged sermon, which you have yourself compared to the sermon on the mount, disguised as a prayer.
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Nope. Just my opinion that if the intention is to be politically correct, then the statement is to politically correct people and not to God. Again I accept it as your opinion that Pastor Wright's prayer was a 'politically charged sermon' but I do not see it that way at all.
 
It reminds me a little of this prayer when O was inaugurated by Reverend Joseph Lowery,
......
Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get back, when brown can stick around — (laughter) — when yellow will be mellow — (laughter) — when the red man can get ahead, man — (laughter) — and when white will embrace what is right.

You gotta love a racist prayer, right?
 
AlbqOwl said:
Nope. Just my opinion that if the intention is to be politically correct, then the statement is to politically correct people and not to God. Again I accept it as your opinion that Pastor Wright's prayer was a 'politically charged sermon' but I do not see it that way at all.
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You defended it by comparing it to the sermon on the mount! You are the one who put forth the position that giving politically charged sermons is correct. You don't see it that way "at all" now, but you did a few posts ago.

Your positions seem inconsistent and constantly running into disagreement with each other. On the one hand it's ok to give a politically charged sermon and we can compare this to the sermon on the mount, on the other hand it's not a sermon and not even politically charged. It's a prayer of confession at one moment but an invocation in another. No one gets to decide what is a correct prayer in one sentence, but you get to decide in another. Your position is all over the place. It would be far more honest if you simply admitted that you like what he said and that's why you support it.
 
CrabCake said:
You defended it by comparing it to the sermon on the mount! You are the one who put forth the position that giving politically charged sermons is correct. You don't see it that way "at all" now, but you did a few posts ago.

Your positions seem inconsistent and constantly running into disagreement with each other. On the one hand it's ok to give a politically charged sermon and we can compare this to the sermon on the mount, on the other hand it's not a sermon and not even politically charged. It's a prayer of confession at one moment but an invocation in another. No one gets to decide what is a correct prayer in one sentence, but you get to decide in another. Your position is all over the place. It would be far more honest if you simply admitted that you like what he said and that's why you support it.
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No I didn't. My comments re the Sermon on the Mount were in response to another member's comments about Jesus's message. But if you think Jesus's sermon on the mount was not as 'politically charged' as Pastor Wright's prayer, you haven't read it carefully or through the eyes of the legalistic Pharisee who might have been listening to it.
 
AlbqOwl said:
No I didn't. My comments re the Sermon on the Mount were in response to another member's comments about Jesus's message.
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Which member?

I just re-read every post before you brought up the sermon on the mount and not a single one makes any reference at all to Jesus' message.
 
AlbqOwl said:
No I didn't. My comments re the Sermon on the Mount were in response to another member's comments about Jesus's message.
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Which member?

I just re-read every post before you brought up the sermon on the mount in post #16 and not a single one makes any reference at all to Jesus' message. You brought up the sermon on the mount in order to compare it to the sermon disguised as a prayer that this pastor gave. Not only are you constantly shifting your position in ways that are self-contradicting, you are now trying to re-write history as well. Unfortunately for you, we can all read the first 15 posts ourselves since they are all quite short and well preserved, and we can see that you are lying. No one commented on Jesus' message until you brought the sermon on the mount into this.
 
cpwill said:
I would have been broadly fine with this prayer due to the bit at the end. God knows our hearts better than Pastor Wright. I would say that I partially disagree with two items - that multiculturalism is worship of other Gods (Christianity is multicultural), and that shooting abortionists is inherently unjustifiable (under Just War Theory, the main portion violated is not the justification aspects, but the likelihood-of-winning aspects).
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killing is normal under some conditions ?
 
jesus christ was a good guy unlike his followers.politically correct or incorrect I dont care but this is a fact
 
CrabCake said:
This was clearly directed at the people in attendance, not at God. So, it's not so much a prayer as it is a political speech disguised as a prayer. Should pastors be using an invitation to pray as an opportunity to push their political agendas? I don't think so. Thus, I have a problem with the speech in general, he abused the invitation in order to make a political speech instead of a prayer. Had they invited him to speak on the intersection of politics and Christianity, there wouldn't be anything wrong with what he said. But they didn't invite him to speak, they invited him to pray and he took advantage of that invitation and gave a speech.
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All those things that he spoke about are indeed, against God.

He's praying for society (nation)....which isn't unlike the prophets from the Old Testament when they prayed for Israel.
 
CrabCake said:
Which member?

I just re-read every post before you brought up the sermon on the mount in post #16 and not a single one makes any reference at all to Jesus' message. You brought up the sermon on the mount in order to compare it to the sermon disguised as a prayer that this pastor gave. Not only are you constantly shifting your position in ways that are self-contradicting, you are now trying to re-write history as well. Unfortunately for you, we can all read the first 15 posts ourselves since they are all quite short and well preserved, and we can see that you are lying. No one commented on Jesus' message until you brought the sermon on the mount into this.
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Fine. I don't care enough to go back and research the entire discussion. But since you think I'm such a liar, you will be much happier discussing topics with others I'm sure. Do have a pleasant day.
 
Cable said:
It reminds me a little of this prayer when O was inaugurated by Reverend Joseph Lowery,
......
Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get back, when brown can stick around — (laughter) — when yellow will be mellow — (laughter) — when the red man can get ahead, man — (laughter) — and when white will embrace what is right.

You gotta love a racist prayer, right?
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This is classic. Thank you. :)

Again I can understand those who do not appreciate Pastor Wright's prayer. But the purpose of corporate prayer I believe is so that those within hearing can agree and since I agree with the confessions he listed, I don't have a problem with it. And corporate prayer is supposed to be heartfelt to God or else there really isn't any purpose for it--words to mimic prayer just to have a prayer but not accomplish anything sort of falls under the category of 'taking the Lord's name in vain.'

Andrey Murray, South African pastor and evangelist explains it like this:

"I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."-- Matthew 18:19-20

One of the first lessons of our Lord in His teaching on prayer was: Not to be seen of men. Enter your closet; be alone with the Father. When He has taught us that the meaning of prayer is personal, individual contact with God, He comes with a second lesson: You not only need secret, solitary prayer, but also public, united prayer. And He gives us a very special promise for the united prayer of two or three who agree in what they ask. As a tree has its roots hidden in the ground and its stem growing up into the sunlight, so prayer needs equally for its full development the hidden secrecy in which the soul meets God alone, and the public fellowship with those who find in the name of Jesus their common meeting place.​

So those who don't like Pastor Wright's prayer probably disagree with the confessions he made. But setting that aside, where would be the most appropriate place for such a confessional prayer other than among those who are in a position to address and/or correct at least some of the sins confessed?
 
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Medusa said:
they accept him (Jesus) as a prophet and respect unlike christians bigots who think muslims are murderer satanists
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If Muslims believed Jesus to be a prophet, then why didn't they believe him when he said,

"I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6
 
Logicman said:
If Muslims believed Jesus to be a prophet, then why didn't they believe him when he said,

"I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6
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ok.muslims dont believe in christ....tell me how many muslims you know who dont believe in his prophecy ? as a need of islam they have to believe .dont you get it ?and technically there was no muslim when his followers were alive .we believe he is a prophet but not god.
 
Logicman said:
If Muslims believed Jesus to be a prophet, then why didn't they believe him when he said,

"I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6
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they believe the bible has been partially corrupted and there for Jesus may not have said that

or they belive the bible is corrupt and that Jesus did say that but that it was only true at the time Jesus possessed the only uncorrected message from god but after that message became corrupt it no longer applied

just need a little creative interpretation man
 
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