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Hate the Sin, not the Sinner

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Wake

Wake

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"Hate the Sin, not the Sinner."

I feel every member needs to take this statement to heart when discussing matters of Christianity.

What do you think of it?
 
I think that since we're all sinners we should certainly be compassionate to our fellow sinners. "I'm just a beggar telling a fellow beggar where to get free bread... the bread of Life."


We're called to love, not to be snooty or self-righteous.


Boy THAT sermon needs to be preached from the pulpit more Sundays....
 
Goshin said:
I think that since we're all sinners we should certainly be compassionate to our fellow sinners. "I'm just a beggar telling a fellow beggar where to get free bread... the bread of Life."


We're called to love, not to be snooty or self-righteous.


Boy THAT sermon needs to be preached from the pulpit more Sundays....
Click to expand...

I agree that all have sinned. No Christian is perfect.

It just gets frustrating at times when some make it seem that you hate certain people, when in reality you merely hate the sin.
 
Goshin said:
I think that since we're all sinners we should certainly be compassionate to our fellow sinners. "I'm just a beggar telling a fellow beggar where to get free bread... the bread of Life."


We're called to love, not to be snooty or self-righteous.


Boy THAT sermon needs to be preached from the pulpit more Sundays....
Click to expand...

'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone'

İ always believe in this statement.
 
:shrug:

I don't think, since many "sins" are done without intent or malicious goal, that we should hate the sin anymore than the sinner.
 
Medusa said:
'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone'

İ always believe in this statement.
Click to expand...

Then the Church and Christianity would cease to exist.
 
Goshin said:
I think that since we're all sinners we should certainly be compassionate to our fellow sinners. "I'm just a beggar telling a fellow beggar where to get free bread... the bread of Life."


We're called to love, not to be snooty or self-righteous.


Boy THAT sermon needs to be preached from the pulpit more Sundays....
Click to expand...

Innocent before proven guilty, not guilty before proven innocent.

Total depravity doesn't cut it in Catholicism.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I really don't see how you come to that conclusion.
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How can the Church or Christianity exist if you can't mention the existence of sins mentioned within the Bible to other people?
 
Wake said:
How can the Church or Christianity exist if you can't mention the existence of sins mentioned within the Bible to other people?
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Cast the first stone, Wake.... as in, literally, as in an execution. Not say "Hey, you shouldn't do that, God don't like it...."
 
Wake said:
How can the Church or Christianity exist if you can't mention the existence of sins mentioned within the Bible to other people?
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Ah how does "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" mean you can't talk about sin?

I believe Jesus was referring to the people who wanted to stone a woman to death for adultery.
 
Wake said:
"Hate the Sin, not the Sinner."

I feel every member needs to take this statement to heart when discussing matters of Christianity.

What do you think of it?
Click to expand...



It'd be great if the people who said it actually hated all sins equally, but typically people who say this hate certain sins far more than others. It's downright amazing how little they hate the sins that they commit compared to the sins that other people commit.
 
Goshin said:
Cast the first stone, Wake.... as in, literally, as in an execution. Not say "Hey, you shouldn't do that, God don't like it...."
Click to expand...

Oh. I thought you meant figuratively, as in Christians shouldn't opine that homosexuality is a sin.
 
Tucker Case said:
It'd be great if the people who said it actually hated all sins equally, but typically people who say this hate certain sins far more than others. It's downright amazing how little they hate the sins that they commit compared to the sins that other people commit.
Click to expand...


That's pretty much the human condition isn't it?

I've literally been berated for smoking by a drunken fat man..... :roll:
 
Tucker Case said:
It'd be great if the people who said it actually hated all sins equally, but typically people who say this hate certain sins far more than others. It's downright amazing how little they hate the sins that they commit compared to the sins that other people commit.
Click to expand...

And I agree with you on that.

There are numerous sins mentioned in the NT that are downplayed, like homosexuality and many others. There are numerous "Christians" who cheat on their spouses, or fornicate, or are vain and worldy, or who love their money, or who are arrogant, etc.
 
Wake said:
There are numerous sins mentioned in the NT that are downplayed, like homosexuality and many others.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'd say you got it backwards. People who say "hate the sin, not the sinner" typically hate homosexuality more than most of the other sins. People who say that never downplay homosexuality, in my expereince. Never. In fact, they almost always pull out that line when they are demonizing homosexuality and don't want to be called out for it.
 
Tucker Case said:
It's Mathew 7: 2-5 That calls on Christians to not say that, right?
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More like commonly misinterpreted as such. Matt 7:2-5 is a warning against hypocrisy and self-rightousness, and making overly harsh personal judgements.

The 1st rule of hermaneutics is "interpret scripture with more scripture". In many many places in the Bible a prophet or preacher is called on to speak out against the wrongs of a certain person or city. There is a big difference between pointing out to someone in a caring manner that they are doing things scripture says God doesn't want us to do.... versus a self-rightous and hypocritical application of personal judgementalism.
 
Tucker Case said:
Actually, I'd say you got it backwards. People who say "hate the sin, not the sinner" typically hate homosexuality more than most of the other sins. People who say that never downplay homosexuality, in my expereince. Never. In fact, they almost always pull out that line when they are demonizing homosexuality and don't want to be called out for it.
Click to expand...

And some of those who want to be secularized Christians downplay the sin of homosexuality to the point of completely ignoring it. Those people you mentioned are typically reacting in that way to those who seem to want to ignore the sin of homosexuality from the Bible. Thus the reaction to the ignoring of those secularized Christians make it seem as though those Christians you mentioned hate that sin more than others.

My pov is that all sins in the NT need to be treated as sins, and not downplayed. If that includes shellfish in the NT then so be it. Iirc those "modern/secular" Christians aren't trying, I think, to completely ignore other sins in the Bible like stealing; then again, a lot of those Christians do ignore the verses stating pride, vanity, fornication, worldliness, love of money, etc are sins.
 
Wake said:
And some of those who want to be secularized Christians downplay the sin of homosexuality to the point of completely ignoring it. Those people you mentioned are typically reacting in that way to those who seem to want to ignore the sin of homosexuality from the Bible. Thus the reaction to the ignoring of those secularized Christians make it seem as though those Christians you mentioned hate that sin more than others.

My pov is that all sins in the NT need to be treated as sins, and not downplayed. If that includes shellfish in the NT then so be it. Iirc those "modern/secular" Christians aren't trying, I think, to completely ignore other sins in the Bible like stealing; then again, a lot of those Christians do ignore the verses stating pride, vanity, fornication, worldliness, love of money, etc are sins.
Click to expand...


Shellfish is fine. See Acts 11, which declares all meats clean, releasing NT believers from the dietary restrictions.
 
How about the fact that some of us aren't christians, and don't need or want you to shove your personal religions list of sins in our faces and try to pass laws that abridge our freedoms based on your religion.
 
wolfsgirl said:
How about the fact that some of us aren't christians, and don't need or want you to shove your personal religions list of sins in our faces and try to pass laws that abridge our freedoms based on your religion.
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Freedom cuts both ways. What one person is free to do another person is free to criticize.


Making things into law is a slightly different matter.
 
Goshin said:
Freedom cuts both ways. What one person is free to do another person is free to criticize.


Making things into law is a slightly different matter.
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Making things into law is a totally different matter.

Personally choosing to obey a religions teachings is one thing,trying to force others to who don't want to is an entirely different matter.

People are free to try to eneact legislation based on their religious beliefskjust as people are free to try to keep those beliefs from becoming law if they feel those laws will cause pain and suffering from others.

People are free to believe homosexuality is a sin,just there are people who are allowed not to belie ve that.It is quite alright in my book to be against SSM,but if one actively tries to prevent SSM from happening,then those of us who support it have a right to oppose those trying to prevent it from happaning by any legal means.
 
Goshin said:
More like commonly misinterpreted as such. Matt 7:2-5 is a warning against hypocrisy and self-rightousness, and making overly harsh personal judgements.

The 1st rule of hermaneutics is "interpret scripture with more scripture". In many many places in the Bible a prophet or preacher is called on to speak out against the wrongs of a certain person or city. There is a big difference between pointing out to someone in a caring manner that they are doing things scripture says God doesn't want us to do.... versus a self-rightous and hypocritical application of personal judgementalism.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's a warning against hypocrisy. As all men are sinners, warning others about a specific sin is hypocrisy. If you say to someone "Hey, don't do that, God doesn't like it" you are saying "Let me take the speck out of your eye". Since all men are sinners, however, all men have planks in their own eyes.

You don't point out to others that they are doing something wrong, you merely point out that which is wrong. The problem with your approach to interpretation is that you are using the actions of prophets and preachers in the bible, rather than the proclamations of the bible itself. That's only a valid approach if prophets and preachers were immune to sin. But since they are men, and all men are sinners, that is not the case.

If someone wants to teach the sins to others, they do so not by telling others to stop sinning, but by telling others what the sins are and allowing them to make their own decisions. Telling others to stop, for whatever reason, when you yourself cannot help but sin, is hypocrisy.

Regardless of how you may want to interpret scripture, the meaning of hypocrisy is not changed by your interpretation. If a person is themselves a inner who cannot help but sin, they are a hypocrite if they tell others not to sin. Describing that which god considers a sin is not the same thing as telling others to stop engaging in a behavior considered a sin.
 
Goshin said:
Shellfish is fine. See Acts 11, which declares all meats clean, releasing NT believers from the dietary restrictions.
Click to expand...

I've gone through Acts 11 dozens of time and I don't see anythign about shellfish. Only "four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds". Why did Shellfish and all other dietary restrictions get included in acts 11?
 
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